Open 784 - Hard-Boiled (Town Wins!)


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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:32 pm

Post by votato »

In post 497, word321 wrote:
In post 0, JacksonVirgo wrote:Player List
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and about the hider thing, a quick way to do it is the hider aiming for the player next to him on the player list; that way, everyone has a possibility of being hid upon, assuming uniform distribution (the odd of a hider being behind u given u r not the tracker is 1/12)
yes its very good at protecting the hider (ish), scum still have plenty of info though. and it completely nerfs the investigative power of the hider. thats a bad plan. scumpoints to you, because i think your mechanical play is better than that
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:38 pm

Post by superbowl9 »

In post 494, word321 wrote:do u think newbtowns take the initiative on the hunt on the second most suspicious person after a mistake of that caliber, not taken it on that magnitude previously on the game?
Yes because they are trying to actually play the game not talk about what they view as irrelevant mistakes. Scum will be paranoid that all their mistakes are relevant
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:41 pm

Post by Doctor Drew »

In post 495, Doctor Drew wrote:
In post 490, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 489, Doctor Drew wrote:I fear people are going to use the 'noob' card as an excuse to put the blinders on to scummy behavior.
This can certainly happen, which is why sometimes it's good to policy lynch VIs/lurkers. As such I keep these types of slots open as compromise lynches or if there are no other scum leads to pursue, unless I'm really townreading them. I don't think Midari is our best option day 1 tho
Who's talking policy lynch on lurkers, I don't know why you brought that up?

I am talking making excuses for scummy behavior.
Super, I fear this got buried.

Please respond.
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:44 pm

Post by superbowl9 »

In post 495, Doctor Drew wrote:
In post 490, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 489, Doctor Drew wrote:I fear people are going to use the 'noob' card as an excuse to put the blinders on to scummy behavior.
This can certainly happen, which is why sometimes it's good to policy lynch VIs/lurkers. As such I keep these types of slots open as compromise lynches or if there are no other scum leads to pursue, unless I'm really townreading them. I don't think Midari is our best option day 1 tho
Who's talking policy lynch on lurkers, I don't know why you brought that up?

I am talking making excuses for scummy behavior.
Yeah i only threw lurking in there because I see it as similarly anti-town: if you are playing poorly (too scum to be scum) or lurking then you're not making valuable contributions to the game even if you are town, so mislynching a person like that is imo okay.

I'm saying yes we should be aware of scummy behavior, but I'm sure you know that it's quite easy to paint any noob as scum because their reasoning/play is just not great most of the time. This does excuse a lot of things one usually sees as scummy.

pedit: Already on it :)
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:47 pm

Post by Doctor Drew »

In post 503, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 495, Doctor Drew wrote:
In post 490, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 489, Doctor Drew wrote:I fear people are going to use the 'noob' card as an excuse to put the blinders on to scummy behavior.
This can certainly happen, which is why sometimes it's good to policy lynch VIs/lurkers. As such I keep these types of slots open as compromise lynches or if there are no other scum leads to pursue, unless I'm really townreading them. I don't think Midari is our best option day 1 tho
Who's talking policy lynch on lurkers, I don't know why you brought that up?

I am talking making excuses for scummy behavior.
Yeah i only threw lurking in there because I see it as similarly anti-town: if you are playing poorly (too scum to be scum) or lurking then you're not making valuable contributions to the game even if you are town, so mislynching a person like that is imo okay.

I'm saying yes we should be aware of scummy behavior, but I'm sure you know that it's quite easy to paint any noob as scum because their reasoning/play is just not great most of the time. This does excuse a lot of things one usually sees as scummy.

pedit: Already on it :)
But, why do you assume that Midari is a noob? Lots of 2020 join dates here, why her?
'This might be the first game where I'm townreading Doctor Drew. Not sure if that's a good or bad sign considering he was town the previous 2 times' - Hectic
'Like I am trying to not be a tunnelly asshole Drew but my patience is running thin' - Titus
'ok just make sure to fuck them, preferably not us pls (人>ω<)' - Morning Tweet
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:52 pm

Post by word321 »

In post 500, votato wrote:and it completely nerfs the investigative power of the hider.
why? he dies upon contact. how can that be nerfed? its literally unavoidable as scum
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:00 pm

Post by JacksonVirgo »

VC 1.8
Marashu (4)
- Battle Mage, Deimos27, superbowl9, Worcestershire
Battle Mage (1)
- Tuxedo Mask
Nash (1)
- ceejayvinoya
Tuxedo Mask (2)
- Marashu, brassherald
Midari Ikishima (3)
- Doctor Drew, votato, word321
Wocestershire (1)
- Midari Ikishima
votato (1)
- Nash

With 7 votes as hammer... Marashu is at L-3

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(expired on 2020-07-07 09:00:00)

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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:01 pm

Post by votato »

In post 505, word321 wrote:
In post 500, votato wrote:and it completely nerfs the investigative power of the hider.
why? he dies upon contact. how can that be nerfed? its literally unavoidable as scum
because random targeting limits the potential. we only have like 2-3 investigations. we should investigate the scummiest people.
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:03 pm

Post by Nash »

In post 500, votato wrote:
In post 497, word321 wrote:
In post 0, JacksonVirgo wrote:Player List
piisirattional
Battle Mage
Marashu
Deimos27
votato
ceejayvinoya
brassherald
superbowl9
Midari Ikishima
Worcestershire
word321
Doctor Drew
Tuxedo Mask
and about the hider thing, a quick way to do it is the hider aiming for the player next to him on the player list; that way, everyone has a possibility of being hid upon, assuming uniform distribution (the odd of a hider being behind u given u r not the tracker is 1/12)
yes its very good at protecting the hider (ish), scum still have plenty of info though. and it completely nerfs the investigative power of the hider. thats a bad plan. scumpoints to you, because i think your mechanical play is better than that
I was about to give him townpoints for this. In case of the Hider's death, their investigative power is useless if we can't tell where the hider was in the night(s). What better strat allows us to deduce alignments on such occasion? There's really no disadvantage afaik and the 83% cop capability with public results sounds really nice.
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:04 pm

Post by word321 »

lets say we reduce the pool to a limited number of players, less than 13, the current proposal. lets exagerate it to 1. if the hider dies upon its target being killed,
what would scum do?
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:04 pm

Post by Midari Ikishima »

Words town with a bad vote.

I take that back.

What cop capabilities?

Also word why is there a tracker and not a vig?
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:05 pm

Post by Nash »

In post 507, votato wrote:
In post 505, word321 wrote:
In post 500, votato wrote:and it completely nerfs the investigative power of the hider.
why? he dies upon contact. how can that be nerfed? its literally unavoidable as scum
because random targeting limits the potential. we only have like 2-3 investigations. we should investigate the scummiest people.
Does this really come from the votato in ? You do realise that having conftown is +EV?
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:07 pm

Post by word321 »

u can trade off the hiders survaibility for targeting "scumread ppl" (i personally dnt like the idea for having heavy influx of 3 scum on chat, and the general scum perception on D1 semingly rotating to activity, a reason the absence of herald is kind of weird); but remember if the hider dnt dies, 100% chance of town.
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:07 pm

Post by word321 »

i havent forgotten the case on midari, still working on that.
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:08 pm

Post by votato »

In post 511, Nash wrote:
In post 507, votato wrote:
In post 505, word321 wrote:
In post 500, votato wrote:and it completely nerfs the investigative power of the hider.
why? he dies upon contact. how can that be nerfed? its literally unavoidable as scum
because random targeting limits the potential. we only have like 2-3 investigations. we should investigate the scummiest people.
Does this really come from the votato in ? You do realise that having conftown is +EV?
im not suggesting we dont do anything to out the hider results postmortem. im just saying that the specific thing that word suggested was bad. the original plan was better imo.
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:20 pm

Post by Nash »

In post 510, Midari Ikishima wrote:Words town with a bad vote.

I take that back.

What cop capabilities?

Also word why is there a tracker and not a vig?
No death confirms a town. I'm assuming the existence of a tracker too, choosing tracker over vig feels better for town to me. Especially in this setup.
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:25 pm

Post by word321 »

In post 510, Midari Ikishima wrote:Words town with a bad vote.

I take that back.

What cop capabilities?

Also word why is there a tracker and not a vig?
it is hider; my mistake. 1/12 given u r not the hider, 0 if u r.
what makes u think im town?
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:29 pm

Post by Midari Ikishima »

In post 516, word321 wrote:
In post 510, Midari Ikishima wrote:Words town with a bad vote.

I take that back.

What cop capabilities?

Also word why is there a tracker and not a vig?
it is hider; my mistake. 1/12 given u r not the hider, 0 if u r.
what makes u think im town?
The whole plan looks dumb on second thought. Notice I said I take it back. Right now it doesn't look good.
In post 515, Nash wrote:
In post 510, Midari Ikishima wrote:Words town with a bad vote.

I take that back.

What cop capabilities?

Also word why is there a tracker and not a vig?
No death confirms a town. I'm assuming the existence of a tracker too, choosing tracker over vig feels better for town to me. Especially in this setup.
.Hide: every night, you may PM me with the name of someone who you want to hide behind. If that player is a member of the mafia or the
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So if someone picked vig they are anti town?

This makes me sad. Join for John Woo shenanigans and people go boo that's not town.
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:34 pm

Post by word321 »

did u said im town and then took it back on the same post? do u think im town or not for the usefulness on that idea alone?
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:12 pm

Post by Nash »

Personally, I'd prefer diversity over gut feels.
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:13 pm

Post by votato »

In post 519, Nash wrote:Personally, I'd prefer diversity over gut feels.
by diversity you mean randomness, right? generally gut feels are pretty useful. thats the whole point of this game, innit?
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:16 pm

Post by Nash »

In post 520, votato wrote:
In post 519, Nash wrote:Personally, I'd prefer diversity over gut feels.
by diversity you mean randomness, right? generally gut feels are pretty useful. thats the whole point of this game, innit?
You're right. But scum can go for the most popular hide target, which is bad for the hider
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:23 pm

Post by Doctor Drew »

In post 520, votato wrote:
In post 519, Nash wrote:Personally, I'd prefer diversity over gut feels.
by diversity you mean randomness, right? generally gut feels are pretty useful. thats the whole point of this game, innit?
Bruv.....you British?
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:26 pm

Post by word321 »

nash is american, potato is danish
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:27 pm

Post by word321 »

upon the unfotunate departure of the hider, we still conserve the infp of conftown (specially if we use a pattern like 2 slots after u in the list for d2, etc)
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