Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

[PenguinPower]

Hoop

[PenguinPower]

Fucking autocorrect...hoop?

[Bingle]

I think Bingle trying to rationally explain something away because it is the logical action is exactly what scum him would do after not taking the logical course.

Why would I not do the logical thing when not doing the logical thing directly harms my chances of winning?

The last time this came up, the reason I wasn't doing the logical thing was because it was a closed setup and doing the logical thing outed me as scum because of information not everyone was privy to (the scumteam was smaller than it should be). There is no such consideration here.

[Bingle]

I kinda just wanna lynch S_S/A50 and call it a day but I'll only do it if me and Mena can come to an agreement.

You would have to chose only one of the two, because I am not letting Bingle get away with this if he is Scum. It's S_S or Bingle for me, so these are the only 2 acceptable lynches for the rest of the game.

I don't know why you think you not being an acceptable lynch from your POV has any bearing on whether you're an acceptable lynch from the town POV.

I'm actually pretty okay with lynching A50 and just blaming him for the loss if he flips town and you guys myslynch me at this point.

VOTE: A50

[Almost50]

I don't know why you think you not being an acceptable lynch from your POV has any bearing on whether you're an acceptable lynch from the town POV.

If you read the context you'd have realized I was talking about what's acceptable for ME, and my lynch is certainly NOT acceptable for me.

However, I started by telling Mari she'd have to choose between me and S_S, which implies I am not completely against my own lynch, provided it leads to YOUR lynch and not S_S'

[Bingle]

I'm actually pretty okay with lynching A50 and just blaming him for the loss if he flips town and you guys myslynch me at this point.

[Menalque]

You think it's more likely Bingle just didn't use his PR n2 then A50 being scum?

I think it’s perfectly likely he might have used it, specifically the ninja component

[Menalque]

Like, I’m less convinced that bingle plays “optimally” here — roleblocking skitter when scum are still likely trapped and losing

Let’s say skitter is roleblocked: the D3 lynch is very, very likely to be in (bingle, fb)

Then the roleblock is used up and can’t be used in a situation later on where the game could be mechanically solved without it (or very close to, if my track had gone through last night we’d have 2 clears)

I’m also thinking of C9++ — we felt like we were fucked in that game when we misidentified the Doctor and skitter turned out to be a 1s vig and we thought town had too many clears. We won because we had two scum counterclaim cop at each other and then managed to swing the lynch onto wooper as someone who would exonerate one cop and clear the other, using some BS logic or other.

But the point is that what we did would have been insane but it was our only way to maybe win if the cards came out right. In the situation where bingle roleblocks skitt, it’s GG because I out that result and firebringer is lynched via PoE after — he would have been first to go if datisi hadn’t. So I can see bingle making a “non-optimal mech play” because he knows that’s actually scum‘a best chance of a win (a false inno or him being able to at least stand a chance of deepwolfing) given that both remaining scum were in the lynchpool for D3 without doing something bold

[Menalque]

I need to reread skitter and see if she was hinting more strongly at shooting fb than bingle which would lend credence to my theory

[Menalque]

@maria I think that if we lynch bingle today and he flips town that S_S is much more likely town. Personally I don’t see whatever you see in pingu that makes him so town, but if you are sure of that I think you should lynch A50 tomorrow on balance

[Menalque]

If Bingle scum:

Bingle

[4]:

Menalque

,

PenguinPower

,

gobbledygook

,

Firebringer

,

Menalque

[3]:

skitter30

,

Datisi

,

Bingle

,

PenguinPower

[3]:

Blake Belladonna

,

lilith2013

,

MariaR

,

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart

,

Pink Ball

,

Chemist1422

,
-------------------------------------

gobbledygook

[5]:

Bingle

,

Datisi

,

PenguinPower

,

Menalque

,

MariaR

, [L-2]

Bingle

[2]:

Firebringer

,

gobbledygook

,

PenguinPower

[2]:

Blake Belladonna

,

lilith2013

,

MariaR

[1]:

skitter30

,

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart

,

Pink Ball

,

Chemist1422

,
-------------------------------------

gobbledygook

[4]:

Bingle

,

Datisi

,

Menalque

,

Pink Ball

,

MariaR

[2]:

gobbledygook

,

skitter30

,

skitter30

[2]:

Blake Belladonna

,

MariaR

,

Something_Smart

[1]:

Firebringer

,

PenguinPower

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Menalque

[1]:

PenguinPower

,

Not Voting [2]:

Something_Smart

,

Chemist1422

,
-------------------------------------

gobbledygook

[7]:

Datisi

,

Pink Ball

,

Something_Smart

,

MariaR

,

lilith2013

,

Firebringer

,

Almost50

, — HAMMER

Something_Smart

[2]:

gobbledygook

,

Bingle

,

PenguinPower

[2]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Menalque

,

MariaR

[1]:

skitter30

,

Not Voting [1]:

PenguinPower

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[4]:

Menalque

,

Almost50

,

PenguinPower

,

Blake Belladonna

, -- [L-2]

Something_Smart

[2]:

skitter30

,

Firebringer

,

Not Voting [5]:

Bingle

,

MariaR

,

Something_Smart

,

lilith2013

,

Datisi

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[4]:

Menalque

,

Almost50

,

PenguinPower

,

Blake Belladonna

, -- [L-2]

Something_Smart

[3]:

skitter30

,

Firebringer

,

Bingle

,

Not Voting [4]:

MariaR

,

Something_Smart

,

lilith2013

,

Datisi

,
-------------------------------------

MariaR

[3]:

skitter30

,

Almost50

,

Datisi

,

lilith2013

[2]:

MariaR

,

PenguinPower

,

Something_Smart

[2]:

Firebringer

,

Bingle

,

Firebringer

[1]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart

,

lilith2013

,

Menalque

,
-------------------------------------

MariaR

[4]:

skitter30

,

Almost50

,

Datisi

,

Menalque

, -- [L-2]

lilith2013

[2]:

MariaR

,

PenguinPower

,

Something_Smart

[2]:

Firebringer

,

Bingle

,

Firebringer

[1]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Blake Belladonna

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Not Voting [1]:

Something_Smart

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[5]:

PenguinPower

,

Blake Belladonna

,

MariaR

,

Almost50

,

skitter30

, — [L-1]

MariaR

[2]:

Datisi

,

Menalque

,

Something_Smart

[1]:

Firebringer

,

Blake Belladonna

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Not Voting [2]:

Something_Smart

,

Bingle

,
-------------------------------------

lilith2013

[6]:

PenguinPower

,

MariaR

,

Almost50

,

Bingle

,

Firebringer

,

Menalque

, — HAMMER

MariaR

[1]:

Datisi

,

Blake Belladonna

[1]:

lilith2013

,

Firebringer

[1]:

Blake Belladonna

,

Not Voting [2]:

Something_Smart

,

skitter30

,
-------------------------------------

[Menalque]

Like, looking at that, it really looks like Firebringer and bingle did not want lilith, but both hopped on by the time she was becoming inevitable -- worth noting that by the time they were on, both Blake and skitter were *essentially* on anyway. skitter only unvoiced to avoid a quick end to day, Blake because she was worried about the vengeful claim

[Menalque]

A50, what put you on a PR read on me?

[Menalque]

and is there anywhere in your ISO that you thinks shows that you had me as a PR? either through crumb, soft, or just the way you were interacting with me?

[Menalque]

hey, also, @a50 has skitter ever misread you?

[MariaR]

Mena do you want me to go over why I think Peng is so town for you

[Menalque]

Mena do you want me to go over why I think Peng is so town for you

I would really, really like that, yes

[MariaR]

I don't put in effort for just

anyone

you know. Give me a minute

[MariaR]

Let us start with the basics:

FB is town...seriously?

Lilith is scum.

If Peng was scum he most certainly was setting up for a fire deep wolf and that makes..almost no sense to me. He would've had to be bussing Lilith from the start and not even very well. Since the most he did was just vote Lilith and say 1 word. We've seen Peng play the game before. If Peng is scum and trying to bus he would've been a lot more convincing than this.

i still think penguin might be scum since he literally comes to this thread just to badmouth me but i know i’m gonna be an asshole if i post my response so i deleted my post.

Yes. The fact that you are scumreading me for joke posts yet attacking Bingle for doing the same thing to Mena and me pointing out the irony is me badmouthing you.

I also don't think Lilith/Peng is fake here. Like I don't see why they just go into the thread and pretend to be mad at each other. Neither of them seem like the type to fake that for no reason.

[MariaR]

Plus, we've seen how he reacts in pure anger when he went at you and even apologized after the fact. That leads me to believe that also wasn't faked. Yes, scum can get angry. But Peng doesn't strike me as the type to get mad for being scumread in a game of mafia. Now if he's getting misrepped as town? I can see it.

Get where I'm going?

[Bingle]

I think it’s perfectly likely he might have used it, specifically the ninja component

WHY WOULD I USE THE NINJA N2 WHEN I EITHER KNEW THERE WAS A RISK OF FAILING THE KILL OR SHOT PB AND ALSO HAD A CLAIMED VIG WHO NEEDED TO DIE?

A50 is arguing that the answer to that question is because I somehow knew all of: "It was a JK, not a doc. The vig who had every remaining scum in her bottom tier of reads was going to shoot the one least likely to endgame. There was an unclaimed tracker who would be targeting me."

I could not have known any of those to the degree I would have been comfortable acting on them. I wouldn't have let FB die because leaving him alive to be lynched doesn't hurt me and if he does get lynched I can bus him for towncred. Me being scum here presumes simultaneously that I am impossibly good at being scum AND impossibly bad at being scum.

[Almost50]

A50, what put you on a PR read on me?

At first it was your entry. Things like 31 & 78 felt like you were deliberately being scummy to avoid being NK'd. You didn't play as scummy when you were actually scum in C9++.

85 strengthened the read. You were playing scummy and "pretending" you didn't care if you died, but you also "didn't want to die"?? That is certainly NOT VT. You were either Scum (which didn't explain the shift in your play style) or a PR trying to look overly vulnerable by day to survive the night.

You were also probing everyone, and your defense of skitter didn't ,ake sense coming from scum!you, because I hd her down as town too, so the only option was still that you were a TPR.

Then came 130 which hinted you could confirm someone's alignment (In this case; Maria) somehow.

And so on. I mean, I wasn't

absolutely sure

you were a PR, but leaning towards it.

[Something_Smart]

What

[Almost50]

and is there anywhere in your ISO that you thinks shows that you had me as a PR? either through crumb, soft, or just the way you were interacting with me?

The following quote was meant to be specifically @you:

And while at it (and this is not directed at skitter, but is a general statement) I "sometimes" may FOS someone I suspect are a TPR (as Town, that is) to give scum the false impression they might still mislynch that person, so as to make it less likely for then to shoot that person. So, if I suddenly decide to keep skitter in my PoE while nobody else is willing to go there you know what I'm doing.

[Almost50]

hey, also, @a50 has skitter ever misread you?

She's been doing that for a few games now. She leans to SR me more nowadays, actually.