Open 784 - Hard-Boiled (Town Wins!)

[Doctor Drew]

nash is american, potato is danish

Pardon me, but I was talking to votato.

[Doctor Drew]

nash is american, potato is danish

Pardon me, but I was talking to votato.

Also.....I should learn to read better haha.

[Battle Mage]

and it completely nerfs the investigative power of the hider.

why? he dies upon contact. how can that be nerfed? its literally unavoidable as scum

because random targeting limits the potential. we only have like 2-3 investigations. we should investigate the scummiest people.

Does this really come from the votato in 469? You do realise that having conftown is +EV?

im not suggesting we dont do anything to out the hider results postmortem. im just saying that the specific thing that word suggested was bad. the original plan was better imo.

I think Word's plan is fine. If it's done in an effectively random order it's not manipulatable by scum (i.e. scum all choose to target each other, making them immune to the hider), which extends the shelf-life to maybe 2 nights rather than 1.

So we will use the player list in the OP to do it, but you will target the player ABOVE you, rather than below. (as everyone agrees I'm conftown, makes sense that I decide the order right?)

UNVOTE: VOTE: Midari criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.

[JacksonVirgo]

and it completely nerfs the investigative power of the hider.

why? he dies upon contact. how can that be nerfed? its literally unavoidable as scum

because random targeting limits the potential. we only have like 2-3 investigations. we should investigate the scummiest people.

Does this really come from the votato in 469? You do realise that having conftown is +EV?

im not suggesting we dont do anything to out the hider results postmortem. im just saying that the specific thing that word suggested was bad. the original plan was better imo.

I think Word's plan is fine. If it's done in an effectively random order it's not manipulatable by scum (i.e. scum all choose to target each other, making them immune to the hider), which extends the shelf-life to maybe 2 nights rather than 1.

So we will use the player list in the OP to do it, but you will target the player ABOVE you, rather than below. (as everyone agrees I'm conftown, makes sense that I decide the order right?)

UNVOTE: VOTE: Midari criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.

Mod Note

Unsure what you meant here so I will say you voted Midari

[Battle Mage]

that's right, thanks Mod

[JacksonVirgo]

VC 1.9

Marashu (3)

- Deimos27, superbowl9, Worcestershire

Battle Mage (1)

- Tuxedo Mask

Nash (1)

- ceejayvinoya

Tuxedo Mask (2)

- Marashu, brassherald

Midari Ikishima (4)

- Doctor Drew, votato, word321, Battle Mage

Wocestershire (1)

- Midari Ikishima

votato (1)

- Nash

With 7 votes as hammer... Midari Ikishima is at L-3

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-07-07 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Joined Mod iso

votato V/LA from Friday to Monday
brassherald V/LA until Monday
Midari Ikishima V/LA until Tuesday

[Midari Ikishima]

criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.

Reeeee you don't like the plan you are anti town. I give a situation where you create a false positive but you don't want to hear it? The density of the people in this game is bar none crazy. Instead of entertaining the idea of ANY OTHER PLAN we just have to use a semi random order and not use logic with THIS GTFO.
This is illogical for numerous reasons. And don't tell me "the mafia will target each other"

Answer me your after rubbing your two brain cells together.

How many PRs are in the game?

So directing one on a suicide mission is the way to go? Get out.

[Midari Ikishima]

This quickly is turning into let's get a midari wagon they must be scum since they don't like the plan.

[Battle Mage]

criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.

Reeeee you don't like the plan you are anti town. I give a situation where you create a false positive but you don't want to hear it? The density of the people in this game is bar none crazy. Instead of entertaining the idea of ANY OTHER PLAN we just have to use a semi random order and not use logic with THIS GTFO.
This is illogical for numerous reasons. And don't tell me "the mafia will target each other"

Answer me your after rubbing your two brain cells together.

How many PRs are in the game?

So directing one on a suicide mission is the way to go? Get out.

There's no need to be rude. You're simply wrong here, and with the greatest respect, I have more recent experience of this setup than you do, and am well placed to advise on strategy. I can be wrong of course, or indeed I could be scum trying to manipulate the town (although it's quite apparent above that you know that's not a possibility) but to call me an I'm an idiot when I highlight your error is not a good look.

The false positive argument you made is predicated on the idea of a vigilante. Town should never have a vigilante in this setup, because the player should always choose tracker. As such, there should be no false positive issue. I had thought that was so obvious it didn't warrant mentioning, so apologies I wasn't clear enough at the outset.

Can you please point me to other games where you've had a similar unprompted meltdown as town when you've gone against the consensus and come under slight pressure?

[Battle Mage]

This quickly is turning into let's get a midari wagon they must be scum since they don't like the plan.

On the contrary, you were well worth a tickle before going out on that limb, and I just needed that little something extra to win me over. I reckon scum could be worried about this plan and try to fight it with ill-considered rationale, as you have done. Resorting immediately to ad hominem is not going to persuade anyone.

[Battle Mage]

Ah this is Midari's first game as scum!

[brassherald]

Yo, you guys posted alot this weekend and I don't feel like reading that much today between my hearings.

What is the plan that Midari doesn't like?

[Battle Mage]

Yo, you guys posted alot this weekend and I don't feel like reading that much today between my hearings.

What is the plan that Midari doesn't like?

We're going to give the hider some cover, and make sure we know who they targetted in case they die, by everyone agreeing a target for tonight in the thread

only if they were the hider.

I got to choose the format as I'm the tippy top townie of the day. Everyone will target the person directly above them in the player list on the first page.

[brassherald]

Cool, sounds good to me.

[brassherald]

I guess Hider!pii replacement targets the bottom person so that we have an ouroboros of players?

[Battle Mage]

I guess Hider!pii replacement targets the bottom person so that we have an ouroboros of players?

exactly.

now, how do you feel about riding on Midari for a bit? Just to see how she reacts?

[brassherald]

Is it just because she doesn't want to follow the plan?

[Battle Mage]

Is it just because she doesn't want to follow the plan?

no, for me it was mostly some dodgy voting patterns before that. Others have other reasons I'm sure.

[brassherald]

Okay, just wanted to be sure.

This is L-2, if I can math right.

VOTE: Midari

[Marashu]

Doesn't seem like you've thought the votato stuff through! I could buy that you might think that scum-BM would see votato as an easy mislynch, and want to pursue that.
But do you really think that my strategy for doing that would be to openly suggest

wagonning him while he is V/LA

, without giving any reasons, or even voting him myself? It's completely implausible that BM-scum actually thinks he can achieve a mislynch with that approach. Additionally, if you're suggesting I think votato's lynchbait, why would I need to wait until he's V/LA? Surely the opposite is true. Moreover, I don't even agree with your characterisation of him, so that's your opinion, not mine.

From what I had seen at the time, that was within the range of scum!BM. Your the quality of posts shifted radically since.

If Pi is null for you, you obviously haven't graduated from the BM-school of scumhunting.

Kept failing the prereq course,

Rolling town 101

. Hoping to make do with trial-by-fire and practical experience until then.

How do you reach the conclusion that scum was on both Midari

and

on Pi?

Tuxedo was on Midari. Pi looked to me like a good place for scum to hide because Pi seemed an easy, inactive wagon.

Why do you townread votato @ all the ppl who townread votato (these are just the ppl I jotted down who said smth about towntato)

Meta, mostly. towntato likes to try to steer conversation towards himself, and I spotted him doing that a couple times here.

PS - my work schedule this week is weird. I'll still be working but I'll also be available during the day this week.

[Midari Ikishima]

Ah this is Midari's first game as scum!

It's not. Keep trying.

criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.

Reeeee you don't like the plan you are anti town. I give a situation where you create a false positive but you don't want to hear it? The density of the people in this game is bar none crazy. Instead of entertaining the idea of ANY OTHER PLAN we just have to use a semi random order and not use logic with THIS GTFO.
This is illogical for numerous reasons. And don't tell me "the mafia will target each other"

Answer me your after rubbing your two brain cells together.

How many PRs are in the game?

So directing one on a suicide mission is the way to go? Get out.

There's no need to be rude. You're simply wrong here, and with the greatest respect, I have more recent experience of this setup than you do, and am well placed to advise on strategy. I can be wrong of course, or indeed I could be scum trying to manipulate the town (although it's quite apparent above that you know that's not a possibility) but to call me an I'm an idiot when I highlight your error is not a good look.

The false positive argument you made is predicated on the idea of a vigilante.

Town should never have a vigilante in this setup, because the player should always choose tracker.

As such, there should be no false positive issue. I had thought that was so obvious it didn't warrant mentioning, so apologies I wasn't clear enough at the outset.

Can you please point me to other games where you've had a similar unprompted meltdown as town when you've gone against the consensus and come under slight pressure?

Rude cause you can't think about something going against the grain for other reasons. K.

I'm not outting myself and other accts to prove a theory.

Open 452i MattP/Sawyer Vig
Open 507 DrCirmo Vig

Ill be back Wed/Thurs.

[superbowl9]

But, why do you assume that Midari is a noob? Lots of 2020 join dates here, why her?

I view noob as more of a posting style/mindset than join date, someone fresh off newbies could be a great player, but if they seem like they don't know the most effective ways to argue certain cases or are unfamiliar with terms like Worchestire, then I would label them as a noob if that makes sense

[Battle Mage]

Ah this is Midari's first game as scum!

It's not. Keep trying.

I looked at your topic list, read all of your completed games, and you were town in all of them.

If I missed one, you are welcome to prove me wrong by linking to it.

[Battle Mage]

criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.

Reeeee you don't like the plan you are anti town. I give a situation where you create a false positive but you don't want to hear it? The density of the people in this game is bar none crazy. Instead of entertaining the idea of ANY OTHER PLAN we just have to use a semi random order and not use logic with THIS GTFO.
This is illogical for numerous reasons. And don't tell me "the mafia will target each other"

Answer me your after rubbing your two brain cells together.

How many PRs are in the game?

So directing one on a suicide mission is the way to go? Get out.

There's no need to be rude. You're simply wrong here, and with the greatest respect, I have more recent experience of this setup than you do, and am well placed to advise on strategy. I can be wrong of course, or indeed I could be scum trying to manipulate the town (although it's quite apparent above that you know that's not a possibility) but to call me an I'm an idiot when I highlight your error is not a good look.

The false positive argument you made is predicated on the idea of a vigilante.

Town should never have a vigilante in this setup, because the player should always choose tracker.

As such, there should be no false positive issue. I had thought that was so obvious it didn't warrant mentioning, so apologies I wasn't clear enough at the outset.

Can you please point me to other games where you've had a similar unprompted meltdown as town when you've gone against the consensus and come under slight pressure?

Rude cause you can't think about something going against the grain for other reasons. K.

I'm not outting myself and other accts to prove a theory.

You're an alt of somebody? I wonder if I could find out by looking at the banlist?

The bottom line is, unless there is a legit newbie in this setup, there isn't going to be a vig, so it doesn't matter. And even if you think someone might be dumb enough to pick Vig over Tracker, the odds of that, multiplied by the odds of the hider hitting them vs scum, make your "false positive" an exceptionally remote possibility - much more remote than the likelihood that they hit scum on Night 1, and die without us getting anything from it because we don't know who they visited. It's just basic maths dude.

Your objection about the Vig makes even less sense because, it doesn't really affect the validity of the gameplan for the hider. The hider dies if they visit a vig, regardless of whether they claimed their target or not.

[Tuxedo Mask]

We're going to do a quick ELI5!

@ BM lay out the exact plan for the hider and what we learn from it? Would it be likely we carry this plan out day 2?

@Midari what are the flaws with the plan? What do you propose as an alternative?