Open 784 - Hard-Boiled (Town Wins!)

[Worcestershire]

I didn't understand the line about cognitive load.

Having a larger cognitive load is a characteristic of scum that can become exceptionally apparent in less experienced players, whose posting habits end up suffering from brevity and scarcity.

Seems to me a characteristic associated more with the playstyle than necessarily with apathy because of pressure scenarios.

Is there any statistical margin for this statement ?

its not simply that lurky people are scum, but that scum have a hard time faking being genuine, and there is additional cognitive load associated with lying and sustaining a lie. this causes scum to be more likely not to get jokes, to not pick up on cues, etc.

Sounds like a generalist concept, but makes some sense in theory. In practice, however, there are interpersonal differences between players that change the way each psychologically deals with pressure, lies and seriousness with jokes and other eventualities, so it is not such a strong AI criterion to define whether the course of someone's actions are coming from a scum mentality or not (within the context of frequency). But, I confess that the lack of activity is a negative characteristic for a social game and I intend to improve it as I gain more experience.

[Worcestershire]

I didn't understand the line about cognitive load.

Having a larger cognitive load is a characteristic of scum that can become exceptionally apparent in less experienced players, whose posting habits end up suffering from brevity and scarcity.

Seems to me a characteristic associated more with the playstyle than necessarily with apathy because of pressure scenarios.

Is there any statistical margin for this statement ?

its not simply that lurky people are scum, but that scum have a hard time faking being genuine, and there is additional cognitive load associated with lying and sustaining a lie. this causes scum to be more likely not to get jokes, to not pick up on cues, etc.

Actually I believe cognitive load can (and more often does) work the other way - scum become hypersensitive to every small interaction, joke, etc. because they don't want to "slip up". This leads to inactivity from an overthinking or fear that they will put out something scummy into the game.

This is also relative, but in the same way, I think I can understand the line of thought and why there is a connection between inactivity and cognitive load, inferring doubtful behavior, embora não concorde

[Worcestershire]

an idea:

if we can make it through Day 1 without outting the hider, would it be sensible for everyone to claim a name they would target if they were the hider? this way if the hider dies without their target dying, we will likely have 1 confirmed scum? probably most helpful if we try and get a reasonable diverse spread of names too.

What does this role do ?

[brassherald]

an idea:

if we can make it through Day 1 without outting the hider, would it be sensible for everyone to claim a name they would target if they were the hider? this way if the hider dies without their target dying, we will likely have 1 confirmed scum? probably most helpful if we try and get a reasonable diverse spread of names too.

What does this role do ?

1 Has role PMs in the spoiler.

[Worcestershire]

As I understand it, there are three possibilities:

1- Choose a mafia and die.
2- Choose a vigilante and die.
3- Choose a victim and die together if visited by mafia/vigilante.

The only problem is that in two of these three scenarios the vigilante distorts the expected result, which can lead to a misinterpretation of the facts, especially in possibility 2. If that could be adjusted, it would be a good plan.

[Worcestershire]

Unless a lot of people choose the same person to hide behind, that's the only downside I can see

We could establish a variation of choice to avoid this.

[Tuxedo Mask]

As I understand it, there are three possibilities:

1- Choose a mafia and die.
2- Choose a vigilante and die.
3- Choose a victim and die together if visited by mafia/vigilante.

The only problem is that in two of these three scenarios the vigilante distorts the expected result, which can lead to a misinterpretation of the facts, especially in possibility 2. If that could be adjusted, it would be a good plan.

It can be adjusted by there not being a Vig. The person who got Vig can choose to be a tracker instead, and since this is the public plan then it's safe to assume they will/should.

What's with the uptick in activity? You connecting with the game now? What are your reads?

Anything to add Brass?

[Worcestershire]

Battle Mage gives me like 16 tonnes of resonance every time he posts. He's active and engaged, he's scumhunting, he's tonally squeaky clean.
I don't have substantial logical reason for why he is town, but this is one of the stronger gutreads I've had in my mafia career.

I share a similar read about him, but in a less exaggerated way.

[brassherald]

Optimal play would have been for the Vig/Tracker to choose tracker. Vig, while, admittedly, more fun is negative town utility.

If I got that role, I chose Tracker.

[Worcestershire]

As I understand it, there are three possibilities:

1- Choose a mafia and die.
2- Choose a vigilante and die.
3- Choose a victim and die together if visited by mafia/vigilante.

The only problem is that in two of these three scenarios the vigilante distorts the expected result, which can lead to a misinterpretation of the facts, especially in possibility 2. If that could be adjusted, it would be a good plan.

It can be adjusted by there not being a Vig. The person who got Vig can choose to be a tracker instead, and since this is the public plan then it's safe to assume they will/should.

What's with the uptick in activity? You connecting with the game now? What are your reads?

Anything to add Brass?

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

[Worcestershire]

Tuxedo and Deimos are reminding me of some friends on the zoom platform, in the sense of articulation and tone. They were hardly caught as scum, so I'm in doubt if this assimilation of experience has any weight in this game. The rest I don't have a definite opinion yet.

[Tuxedo Mask]

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Roles are page 1. Town has a hider, a half tracker half vig (chosen), and a half cop half psychologist (random).

Are there specific reasons for these reads? Any posts you can share?

[Battle Mage]

As I understand it, there are three possibilities:

1- Choose a mafia and die.
2- Choose a vigilante and die.
3- Choose a victim and die together if visited by mafia/vigilante.

The only problem is that in two of these three scenarios the vigilante distorts the expected result, which can lead to a misinterpretation of the facts, especially in possibility 2. If that could be adjusted, it would be a good plan.

We won't have a vigilante. This is one good reason why.

Also, the

most

likely possibility, and the one you've missed here, is that the hider hides behind town and lives, but doesn't claim. Then once they die, we potentially have a conftown late in the game, which would be hugely useful.

[Battle Mage]

Unless a lot of people choose the same person to hide behind, that's the only downside I can see

We could establish a variation of choice to avoid this.

I have suggested (Well, actually it wasn't my idea, but I endorsed and tweaked it) a solution to this - we all pick the person above us in the playerlist. that way, only 1 person picks each person.

[Battle Mage]

Optimal play would have been for the Vig/Tracker to choose tracker. Vig, while, admittedly, more fun is negative town utility.

If I got that role, I chose Tracker.

This is because you are an intelligent, good player.

I believe the majority of people in this game are intelligent and good players too, and so the likelihood of us actually having a Vig is pretty slim.

[Battle Mage]

As I understand it, there are three possibilities:

1- Choose a mafia and die.
2- Choose a vigilante and die.
3- Choose a victim and die together if visited by mafia/vigilante.

The only problem is that in two of these three scenarios the vigilante distorts the expected result, which can lead to a misinterpretation of the facts, especially in possibility 2. If that could be adjusted, it would be a good plan.

It can be adjusted by there not being a Vig. The person who got Vig can choose to be a tracker instead, and since this is the public plan then it's safe to assume they will/should.

What's with the uptick in activity? You connecting with the game now? What are your reads?

Anything to add Brass?

ah sorry Tux, you got there before me!

[Battle Mage]

As I understand it, there are three possibilities:

1- Choose a mafia and die.
2- Choose a vigilante and die.
3- Choose a victim and die together if visited by mafia/vigilante.

The only problem is that in two of these three scenarios the vigilante distorts the expected result, which can lead to a misinterpretation of the facts, especially in possibility 2. If that could be adjusted, it would be a good plan.

It can be adjusted by there not being a Vig. The person who got Vig can choose to be a tracker instead, and since this is the public plan then it's safe to assume they will/should.

What's with the uptick in activity? You connecting with the game now? What are your reads?

Anything to add Brass?

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Excellent, I think that's a pretty good little townbloc, and we can even add Deimos, whom I adore.

Battle Mage - Superbowl - Word - Worcestershire - Deimos

If we all stick together, we should be able to clean this place up, lickety split!

[Battle Mage]

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Roles are page 1. Town has a hider, a half tracker half vig (chosen), and a half cop half psychologist (random).

Are there specific reasons for these reads? Any posts you can share?

-0.5 townie points for trying to appear helpful here, when someone else had already referenced the OP above.

-0.5 townie points for asking inane questions about a townie's town-read on other townies, without a clear purpose.

You're slipping away from me Tux...

[Tuxedo Mask]

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Roles are page 1. Town has a hider, a half tracker half vig (chosen), and a half cop half psychologist (random).

Are there specific reasons for these reads? Any posts you can share?

-0.5 townie points for trying to appear helpful here, when someone else had already referenced the OP above.

-0.5 townie points for asking inane questions about a townie's town-read on other townies, without a clear purpose.

You're slipping away from me Tux...

No, you're right. It's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day, but then suddenly just gets really into talking about NAI theory stuff. You just buy that they suddenly dumbtell in the middle of it too? Do you lose town points for then giving answers to Worsh that I had already given too? Also really, Brass does nothing and also just shows up to talk NAI mechanics stuff, while ignoring a question I asked them, and they're fine?

So I should just drop it and not ask him to explain his reads, cool.

[Battle Mage]

We're going to do a quick ELI5!

@ BM lay out the exact plan for the hider and what we learn from it? Would it be likely we carry this plan out day 2?

@Midari what are the flaws with the plan? What do you propose as an alternative?

I'll save ya some time because Midari is scum, and probably ain't gonna bother answering anyway.

The plan is basically, everyone has an assigned target for IF they are the hider, which is publically available. We have agreed that I will decide, as the de facto town adjudicator, and I have chosen a random method which is really easy:

If you are the hider, target the player above you in the playerlist.

This way, if the hider dies because they hit scum Night 1, we know who they targetted and get a free scumbag. A potential downside would be if we had a Vig, however the more sensible players have explained why we should not have a Vig. And even if we did have a vig, mathematically the odds are way +EV for town even with that risk. It could also mean, depending on what we do for subsequent nights, that we might get some conftowns later in the game without a claim being made, which is super useful.

Your question about whether we do it on Day 2 as well, is a very pertinent one. I think it's debatable, and we should defer the decision until tomorrow, so we give scum less info to work with tonight (because, for instance, if we committed to do this for 2 nights, rather than 1, they might try a gambit to hunt the hider. If we committed to only doing 1, they mightn't bother. Uncertain scum is good for town.)

[Battle Mage]

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Roles are page 1. Town has a hider, a half tracker half vig (chosen), and a half cop half psychologist (random).

Are there specific reasons for these reads? Any posts you can share?

-0.5 townie points for trying to appear helpful here, when someone else had already referenced the OP above.

-0.5 townie points for asking inane questions about a townie's town-read on other townies, without a clear purpose.

You're slipping away from me Tux...

No, you're right. It's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day, but then suddenly just gets really into talking about NAI theory stuff. You just buy that they suddenly dumbtell in the middle of it too? Do you lose town points for then giving answers to Worsh that I had already given too? Also really, Brass does nothing and also just shows up to talk NAI mechanics stuff, while ignoring a question I asked them, and they're fine?

So I should just drop it and not ask him to explain his reads, cool.

I don't think you will ask everyone that question, so to pick on someone likely town, who you could perceive as an easy target, seemed like it could be a bit predatory to me.
And this is a very tetchy response - why so sour? Are you upset your vote for me earlier didn't go anywhere? Or that you're not in my townbloc?

2 details in your post above which struck me as scummy:

1. "it's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day" - I think this is a massive exaggeration on 2 levels. What you're describing doesn't sound "super weird" at all, it happens to like a bunch of people in every game unfortunately. True or false, you're overplaying this. And more importantly perhaps, "he basically lurks the entire day" - we have only just started the day right? it certainly isn't over yet! You are definitely stretching the truth here to try and shade Worcestershire, which is exactly why I called you out in the first place. I suspected you didn't mean to ask the question in good faith, and just wanted a hook to get you back on an easy bandwagon.

2. I never said anything about Brass being "fine" so I don't know why you're taking that defensive line about him above. I said he was a good player, I didn't say he was town. You aren't really reading my posts, you're skimming and jumping to conclusions, and then getting very defensive when you meet any resistance. Not a good look.

I think it's good that this game is not going to be an environment where you can get away with cheap garbage like "Hey Player A - what's your take?" without fear of challenge.

Good question on my own townie points though - no I don't lose them, as I apologised afterwards once I realised my mistake.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Spoiler:

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Roles are page 1. Town has a hider, a half tracker half vig (chosen), and a half cop half psychologist (random).

Are there specific reasons for these reads? Any posts you can share?

-0.5 townie points for trying to appear helpful here, when someone else had already referenced the OP above.

-0.5 townie points for asking inane questions about a townie's town-read on other townies, without a clear purpose.

You're slipping away from me Tux...

No, you're right. It's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day, but then suddenly just gets really into talking about NAI theory stuff. You just buy that they suddenly dumbtell in the middle of it too? Do you lose town points for then giving answers to Worsh that I had already given too? Also really, Brass does nothing and also just shows up to talk NAI mechanics stuff, while ignoring a question I asked them, and they're fine?

So I should just drop it and not ask him to explain his reads, cool.

I don't think you will ask everyone that question, so to pick on someone likely town, who you could perceive as an easy target, seemed like it could be a bit predatory to me.
And this is a very tetchy response - why so sour? Are you upset your vote for me earlier didn't go anywhere? Or that you're not in my townbloc?

2 details in your post above which struck me as scummy:

1. "it's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day" - I think this is a massive exaggeration on 2 levels. What you're describing doesn't sound "super weird" at all, it happens to like a bunch of people in every game unfortunately. True or false, you're overplaying this. And more importantly perhaps, "he basically lurks the entire day" - we have only just started the day right? it certainly isn't over yet! You are definitely stretching the truth here to try and shade Worcestershire, which is exactly why I called you out in the first place. I suspected you didn't mean to ask the question in good faith, and just wanted a hook to get you back on an easy bandwagon.

2. I never said anything about Brass being "fine" so I don't know why you're taking that defensive line about him above. I said he was a good player, I didn't say he was town. You aren't really reading my posts, you're skimming and jumping to conclusions, and then getting very defensive when you meet any resistance. Not a good look.

I think it's good that this game is not going to be an environment where you can get away with cheap garbage like "Hey Player A - what's your take?" without fear of challenge.

Good question on my own townie points though - no I don't lose them, as I apologised afterwards once I realised my mistake.

1.I'm asking him because he hasn't explained a single read this game. Even if you think I was trying to trap him, I see no reason why you should step in this soon to stop it. Instead, you've basically given him carte blanche to no substantiating reads. I don't see how it benefits the game in the slightest. Also you can see that you're wrong as I also asked questions of Brass. Obviously, they were more general, but that's because Brass' latest posts have been dead empty.

2. I'll wait till you call out Brass then. Since you just chose to go after me that comes off like a mild endorsement of Brass, I.E. you see no problem with how they've been playing with their last few posts.

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Roles are page 1. Town has a hider, a half tracker half vig (chosen), and a half cop half psychologist (random).

Are there specific reasons for these reads? Any posts you can share?

-0.5 townie points for trying to appear helpful here, when someone else had already referenced the OP above.

-0.5 townie points for asking inane questions about a townie's town-read on other townies, without a clear purpose.

You're slipping away from me Tux...

No, you're right. It's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day, but then suddenly just gets really into talking about NAI theory stuff. You just buy that they suddenly dumbtell in the middle of it too? Do you lose town points for then giving answers to Worsh that I had already given too? Also really, Brass does nothing and also just shows up to talk NAI mechanics stuff, while ignoring a question I asked them, and they're fine?

So I should just drop it and not ask him to explain his reads, cool.

I don't think you will ask everyone that question, so to pick on someone likely town, who you could perceive as an easy target, seemed like it could be a bit predatory to me.
And this is a very tetchy response - why so sour? Are you upset your vote for me earlier didn't go anywhere? Or that you're not in my townbloc?

2 details in your post above which struck me as scummy:

1. "it's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day" - I think this is a massive exaggeration on 2 levels. What you're describing doesn't sound "super weird" at all, it happens to like a bunch of people in every game unfortunately. True or false, you're overplaying this. And more importantly perhaps, "he basically lurks the entire day" - we have only just started the day right? it certainly isn't over yet! You are definitely stretching the truth here to try and shade Worcestershire, which is exactly why I called you out in the first place. I suspected you didn't mean to ask the question in good faith, and just wanted a hook to get you back on an easy bandwagon.

2. I never said anything about Brass being "fine" so I don't know why you're taking that defensive line about him above. I said he was a good player, I didn't say he was town. You aren't really reading my posts, you're skimming and jumping to conclusions, and then getting very defensive when you meet any resistance. Not a good look.

I think it's good that this game is not going to be an environment where you can get away with cheap garbage like "Hey Player A - what's your take?" without fear of challenge.

Good question on my own townie points though - no I don't lose them, as I apologised afterwards once I realised my mistake.

1.I'm asking him because he hasn't explained a single read this game. Even if you think I was trying to trap him, I see no reason why you should step in this soon to stop it. Instead, you've basically given him carte blanche to no substantiating reads. I don't see how it benefits the game in the slightest. Also you can see that you're wrong as I also asked questions of Brass. Obviously, they were more general, but that's because Brass' latest posts have been dead empty.

2. I'll wait till you call out Brass then. Since you just chose to go after me that comes off like a mild endorsement of Brass, I.E. you see no problem with how they've been playing with their last few posts.

1. He's in my townbloc, and you aren't. So you are more likely to be scum, and the burden of proof is on you to explain your actions first. You should worry less about what "benefits the game" and more about what is meant to be your job - hunting scum and proving you ain't scum. You haven't dealt with my points above - why did you feel the need to exaggerate the reasons for questionning Worcestershire here? Honesty is your friend if you're town, and your post was not honest - you were under a modicum of scrutiny and going way OTT to sell us on it.

2. If I endorse someone, you'll know about it. If you read my posts anyway.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Spoiler:

So there are two roles in one ?

I have a little more time available today. I still have Marashu as a suspect and now my impression of Battle Mage has improved more significantly (as town). Good impressions about Superbowl and Word too.

Roles are page 1. Town has a hider, a half tracker half vig (chosen), and a half cop half psychologist (random).

Are there specific reasons for these reads? Any posts you can share?

-0.5 townie points for trying to appear helpful here, when someone else had already referenced the OP above.

-0.5 townie points for asking inane questions about a townie's town-read on other townies, without a clear purpose.

You're slipping away from me Tux...

No, you're right. It's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day, but then suddenly just gets really into talking about NAI theory stuff. You just buy that they suddenly dumbtell in the middle of it too? Do you lose town points for then giving answers to Worsh that I had already given too? Also really, Brass does nothing and also just shows up to talk NAI mechanics stuff, while ignoring a question I asked them, and they're fine?

So I should just drop it and not ask him to explain his reads, cool.

I don't think you will ask everyone that question, so to pick on someone likely town, who you could perceive as an easy target, seemed like it could be a bit predatory to me.
And this is a very tetchy response - why so sour? Are you upset your vote for me earlier didn't go anywhere? Or that you're not in my townbloc?

2 details in your post above which struck me as scummy:

1. "it's definitely not super weird that he basically lurks the entire day" - I think this is a massive exaggeration on 2 levels. What you're describing doesn't sound "super weird" at all, it happens to like a bunch of people in every game unfortunately. True or false, you're overplaying this. And more importantly perhaps, "he basically lurks the entire day" - we have only just started the day right? it certainly isn't over yet! You are definitely stretching the truth here to try and shade Worcestershire, which is exactly why I called you out in the first place. I suspected you didn't mean to ask the question in good faith, and just wanted a hook to get you back on an easy bandwagon.

2. I never said anything about Brass being "fine" so I don't know why you're taking that defensive line about him above. I said he was a good player, I didn't say he was town. You aren't really reading my posts, you're skimming and jumping to conclusions, and then getting very defensive when you meet any resistance. Not a good look.

I think it's good that this game is not going to be an environment where you can get away with cheap garbage like "Hey Player A - what's your take?" without fear of challenge.

Good question on my own townie points though - no I don't lose them, as I apologised afterwards once I realised my mistake.

1.I'm asking him because he hasn't explained a single read this game. Even if you think I was trying to trap him, I see no reason why you should step in this soon to stop it. Instead, you've basically given him carte blanche to no substantiating reads. I don't see how it benefits the game in the slightest. Also you can see that you're wrong as I also asked questions of Brass. Obviously, they were more general, but that's because Brass' latest posts have been dead empty.

2. I'll wait till you call out Brass then. Since you just chose to go after me that comes off like a mild endorsement of Brass, I.E. you see no problem with how they've been playing with their last few posts.

1. He's in my townbloc, and you aren't. So you are more likely to be scum, and the burden of proof is on you to explain your actions first. You should worry less about what "benefits the game" and more about what is meant to be your job - hunting scum and proving you ain't scum. You haven't dealt with my points above - why did you feel the need to exaggerate the reasons for questionning Worcestershire here? Honesty is your friend if you're town, and your post was not honest - you were under a modicum of scrutiny and going way OTT to sell us on it.

2. If I endorse someone, you'll know about it. If you read my posts anyway.

[/spoiler]

They are apparently in the townbloc after I asked them questions, so you're working backward there. Again is the sole reason they are in it for the dumb tell? Benefiting the game is putting info out there so it is easier to scum hunt, I honestly don't know what you're getting at. How does protecting someone from having to do the monumental task of explaining their own reads help me scum hunt? As for the other stuff I didn't see how to answer it other than, that's how I talk? Like just read my posts, I speak in this manner. Do you not think the day is nearing to a close? A widly scum read slot is a L-2 and people are discussing the best way to do night actions. And even if day 1 went for another hundred pages it wouldn't make me saying someone did something "all day" wrong, that's not how time works. At the point of that post that was the furthest the day had gone, meaning every post before that was "all day" so when I say someone did something "all day" it means all their posts up till now. Why do I have to explain this?

Follow up, sorry I sound annoyed, but it would help if you dropped the condescending tone in your posts. It just bothers me a whole lot, at least not sticking in the emojis as well when you talk to me would be greatly appreciated.

[Tuxedo Mask]

I don't know what I did to that, sorry.