Micro 955: Variant Nomination Mafia (Game Over)

[Nahdia]

Execution Vote 1.01

hellbooks (2):

DkKoba, Raya36

DkKoba (0):

Raya36 (0):

Dunnstral (0):

Not Voting (5):

hellbooks, Yukino, Nash, Dunnstral, Varsoon

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to decide an execution via majority.
Deadline is in (expired on 2020-07-07 16:54:09), at which point the execution will be decided via plurality.
With no clear plurality, the mafia team will privately break any ties.

[DkKoba]

I also want to say that varsoon just solely based on the direction/concentration of their effort I find them town atm and wouldn't consider nominating them this game. they're taking a strong approach to be a leader and if anything that'll lead to alignment tells down the line via any flips

[DkKoba]

I'm always around.
I don't see the logic you're laying out for Yukino being town based on that post.
Paying such hard attention to confirms/signups strikes me as someone extra excited to begin--that sort of excitement in a game that hasn't begun is usually indicative of an interesting role; the only interesting roles in this game are scum.
Coming in with an out-of-game rationale / argument around posting for someone definitely being scum between only two players isn't the sort of thing I'd expect town to propose, either.
So I don't understand why you'd read that act as a town act.

I mean I have the bias of knowing why I am particularly engaged in this game. Being a returning player, I am on an alt to avoid certain people. Honestly I quit for that reason over anything to do with the game itself. Lots of people put in incredible amounts of effort as a VT in theme games where there is an expectation to at least be a power role. I don't think a 2013 user would not realize that?

I think so many variables outside the game can make someone excited for a game, player lists, moderators, general desire to play the game and the list goes on. You haven't seen anyone pay so much attention to confirmations before? That's why leaving games open and bolding who confirmed fell out of favor because people like to read into it maybe on my part doing so is in poor taste but I won't choose to ignore things in front of me. Why pay so much attention to specifically whether or not someone got a scum role pm to determine excitement? To some degree I could see that as a perspective slip being you were excited to see one yourself. Or your thoughts right now just tend to be incredibly linear to come to certain results, which isn't how I tend to see town approach the game. Right now you're the one asking questions in your engagement so I am trying to get myself into your head right now.

Am I just naively disrupting your attempt at pressure right now? Is their a level of nuance to why you don't like that sequence went over my head? Or some other third variable that is making me misunderstand what is going on? I am just trying to look into your head right now and I don't really understand why your pushing this point.

The same applies for Raya, I think a lack of day 1 confidence is incredibly standard. And it's very early to call her out on not trying to develop day 1 reads when she is commenting on other aspects of the game before she gets the ball rolling. Other players are also playing relatively slowly she just happens to be the one that overtly said it. Why her over Hellbook or Dunnstral being players who are just going with the flow. I preferred Raya's take because it showed a level of emotion and frustration with her own play in it while Dunnstral and Hellbook are more or less just hiding in the back lines right now.

this analysis is on point and I can't help but agree with it despite disagreeing with the shade towards varsoon.

[DkKoba]

I want to engage with the mechanic of the game rather than treating it like it doesn't exist.
Feels against the spirit of the setup to do anything else.

Very slight "self-consciousness" ping.

In my experience, WIFOM tends to favor scum.

Agree w this ftr: i think it makes far more sense to nom a townread in the early game and

consider

nomming scumreads later in the game to force their hand?

What a boring entrance, you can do better then that!

Sorry. here's my real entrance.

Hellbrooks: Can you comment a bit more on the gamestate and your thoughts on players so far?

ya sure sure... hm... wouldn't agree with townread on yukino or scumread on raya... well both trend a little null i think. your one post i highlighted is tonally kinda scummy. dkkoba maybe scum just off the tailend of 59 and 60, both not great. just let me chill a little bit tho.
83 liking yukino a bit now.

I actually find statements like this to be quite towny.

I

urge

caution on this!!!!!

Just so you know, hellbooks was the last player to confirm. Not sure why no one pointed this out.

Huh? i like confirmed immediately. i just didn't check the game thread. lol.

oreso people i just wanna hang LOL im straight up ignoring the mechanic and just voting who I want to get rid of.)

incidentally this is like

wild

Did you sign up to play a 5:2 mountainous nightless?

this progression into

oh if you can vote the nominator then hmmm ya ok ok don't mind nominating the scumread actually no that's good i hadn't considered

VOTE: nom: koba.

does not make sense

[DkKoba]

and I demand an explaination because at this point it feels like there's setup going on here where you force a nomination on me but also offer shade on other slots to set them up as MLs.

[Varsoon]

any reason you think the yukino opening is not town motivated? I'm not going to base my whole read on that but I felt it was a good starting point in "solve pressure" as I like to call it.

I think I outlined why on this earlier in post 96. It's the kind of play I could see myself doing as scum.

[Yukino]

@Dkkoba why not put Varsoon in the pool. I am going to read up real fast, I am a bit busy until Friday.

[Yukino]

Ok so I can I think the whole "I see myself doing lt doing this as scum" argument Varsoon keeps making is relatively wolfy. As a whole its a very easy argument to make and it applies to a wide range of situations without the opening for much counter argument or need for further explanation. I think it's an argument town can make but I also think Varsoon has other issues throughout his slot.

My other wolf read of the game is Nash for the quick hammer and saying he wasn't aware of the vote count. Idk I just think he was aware and did it anyway to try and lynch or distance from DKKoba.

My read on Koba is dependant on how they answer why they didn't leave Varsoon to die which feels contradictory to what they were doing in the prior phase. Unless I misremember the game state.

[Yukino]

In the current pool I guess Hellbook is fine? They have the lowest amount of presence in the group but I could also see myself voting Dunnstral. I am not particularly confident about either being scum but comparatively to Raya and Koba they are worse.

[Varsoon]

Cool way to mis-characterize my argument, Yukino.
Go back and read post 96 where I break down why the entrance isn't something I'd townread.
You're shooting far too hard from the hip here.

[Varsoon]

I'm also pretty curious why DkKoba didn't nominate me but I wasn't going to ask since I'm already pretty self-absorbed.

[Yukino]

It's not just about me you made the argument of "scum me would consider doing that" towards Koba as well. Otherwise I probably would have ignored you saying that.

Maybe I just have a pet peeves towards that argument because I am aware town can use it, but you are using it multiple times. Give me a hot sec to read 96 again to give you my thoughts on it.

I have been trying to decide if we are players who conflict very heavily by nature or I'd you are just scum. And I am leaning towards the latter right now.

Pedit: it's ok that's why I asked for you

[Varsoon]

If you're talking about post 155, then it's still about you, Yukino.
Stop speed-reading.

[DkKoba]

I'm also pretty curious why DkKoba didn't nominate me but I wasn't going to ask since I'm already pretty self-absorbed.

i'm rarely going to go after the ones driving discussion on d1 because that's against my win condition. getting rid of the top voice can stale discussion and I've seen it happen often when people like myself even are eliminated early.

you're making yourself heard. you're interacting. I want you to stay at least through d1. basically I give people like you a pass to live thru d1 on the merit that i can better read you as the game progresses.

I already explained that i think your intentions read as town to me. When I was choosing who to nominate I looked at the most recent pages and I saw hellbook's progression to say they scumread me and immediately pinged. then I sheeped my drunk maya read because fuck I can't go against drunk me's reads. and then I submitted those 2 I was told I needed a 3rd one since I didn't read c lose enough and thought it was 3 including me, so i just sorta quickly skimmed and chose dunnsstrel.

[DkKoba]

also request to both of you: can you use post links like this 155

[Yukino]

@Yukino:

To be fair, I was excited for gamestart due to the moderator and it's my first game in over a year.
All said, I'm also considering this from a moderator point of view, since I mod much more than I play.
If a player of mine was looking at player confirmation/posting in pre-game and trying to leverage that as an advantage, I'd think they're either:
1. Shortsighted and avoiding engaging with the rhetorical aspects of the game.
2. Trying to leverage something as a discussion point and potential rationale to push for a lynch, which is scummy.
I get the points made that coming in and doing something like that could put a target on you, which would be something scum would want to avoid, but making that as a counterargument is entirely the kind of WIFOM I'd expect from scum who realize the advantages of leveraging mechanical/setup rubbish against town. It's easy to take the position of "If someone calls me out, I can just say I was making an observation and potentially even fishing for scum to push me over it or lean into my faulty logic." I find that scum players will often deal with the unplayed moments as both defense and argument against others.

I could get more into it, but it's safe to say that if you've been on-site for awhile on your main, you're probably familiar with me and how unconventional my approach to the game can be. If you're not, well. That's how it is.
A lot of my play is informed by how I've seen others play while modding and through what feels right in the moment of play. I'm a very read-by-gut player. As much as I talk about meta, I also hold it to be only useful for informing one's approach and not really defining alignment, since I expect people to be cognizant enough of their own meta to play contrary to it.

I don't think we have played together before. None the less I don't plan on using meta regardless that is just unfair unless it's just blatantly wronging someone to not.

I think this argument is just wifom with extra steps, I am aware this is an incredible over simplification I just think it's a weird entrance to focus on and I don't particularly understand why you are putting so much stock into it. Along with the "I'd do that as scum" argument which just feels like deflection. And maybe you are right that you are just a different style of player and this is just incredibly large playstyle clash at hand.

But I also am trying to see the town elements of the argument which I currently am having trouble seeing.


With all your talk about approaching the days slowly what do you think of Nash?
Who do you want to vote in the available pool?

[DkKoba]

I think meta is a valuable tool, why refuse to use it?

[Yukino]

I think meta is a valuable tool, why refuse to use it?

I think it's unfair to use it while on an alt, people don't have my meta so that's that. + It compromises my alt to go into.

[hellbooks]

Ok hi babes

[DkKoba]

I think meta is a valuable tool, why refuse to use it?

I think it's unfair to use it while on an alt, people don't have my meta so that's that. + It compromises my alt to go into.

lame reason but i hope you know that could be an easy way to cover up not wanting to townread someone based on meta they have.

[hellbooks]

hellbrooks: they've been lurky in the shadows and suddenly came out to hammer the vote on me which I find scum asf. imma be real I have a suspicion that they're teamed with raya for the move they did there.

i've been

moving

...... also i

didnt

hammer... jeez....
this sucks!!!

include a third I reskimmed quickly and made my choice that way.

why so cavalier about it

raya
dunn
dkkoba
(t -> s)

like fr I think hellbooks hammering me with little explaination was fairly scummy and they seemed detached and just sheeping the wagon that had most votes and people need to see that

i didnt hammer you

I loathe moving but am grateful for it when it's done with.

yeah i'm tired af, thanks

ok so any reason you think this is town raya? because I'm not buying this casing.

it might not be a good read but it circumstantially can definitely come from town in fact one might say (I might say) that it has higher town equity

and I demand an explaination because at this point it feels like there's setup going on here where you force a nomination on me but also offer shade on other slots to set them up as MLs.

i have no explanation other than gut

I'm also pretty curious why DkKoba didn't nominate me but I wasn't going to ask since I'm already pretty self-absorbed.

this is mediumly scummy

[hellbooks]

dkkoba does seem to care a lot about like, getting it right
hm

[hellbooks]

just realized this is SUCH a nahdia setup. we're gladiating every day
kind of demotivating to constantly have to consider the possibility that all people eligible for vote are town

[Yukino]

vote: Dunnstral

Actually Dunnstral is just coasting and I hate it.

[Varsoon]

Don't get me talkin' about 'levels'. You'll probably hate it, Yukino.
I'm not the one putting stock into the entrance, Yukino--that's Dkkoba and others. I was critical of them townreading the entrance since it didn't ping me as especially town.
I think Nash is in a very poor position and has largely been coasting and making play under the argument of 'not paying attention' which is something I'm not keen on.
Our town either sucks ass or scum's just playing real overtly. Rough stuff.
I'd vote DKkoba, Raya, then Hellbooks--in that order, right now.
I wouldn't vote Dunnstral.
Which, y'know. Speaking of coasting:

Dunnstral:

Please offer some input here, now that we're post-nomination.

P-EDIT:
Seems like Yukino's coming to some of the same conclusions I am.