GeorgeBailey's Mini Normal Review, July 2020

[implosion]

Subject: Normal Queue Thread (Players and Mods)

town:
- 1x town alien
- 1x town pt cop
- 2x town friendly neighbor neighbor
- 6x VT

scum:
- 1x mafia tracker
- 1x mafia watcher
- 1x mafia goon

Datisi is actually the designer of the setup, I just want to mod it.

I can add Datisi to the topic if desired.

[implosion]

Primary: Nexus
Secondary: mastina

[mastina]

To my eyes, balanced enough. Alien is a good role for the town here with strong kill-denial and some denial of info to the scum PRs, but does have some anti-synergy with the town's power roles; pt cop is a reasonably strong investigative, but has some anti-synergy with the friendly neighbor neighbors (who're, essentially, masons); the friendly neighbor neighbors are, essentially, masons; the scum PRs don't give them any hard-counters to the town PRs but give them extra information to work with.

But I'm the secondary reviewer here so it's more Nexus's call here.

[Datisi]

hello

when i asked george what kinda setup he wants me to make, i was told "let there be an alien" and "no neapolitans", so if anything gotta be changed, can't be that

i have not written role PMs yet and will do so as soon as we agree on the setup

[GeorgeBailey]

I wanted a beholder too but we scrapped that quickly cause the role sounded kinda unfun.

But yeah, I pretty much wanted to base it around the Alien since it's a role I almost never see.

[Datisi]

oh right, daytalk enabled for all PTs, and i'm erring to the side of scum having multitasking enabled by default, but if it's too much i wouldn't cry about it if we removed it i guess

[Datisi]

i lied, i wrote the role PMs already (bump)

also i know the win condition of the Town in the newbie queue has changed due to the term change, (and these use the old one), so i'm not sure if the normal queue is also regulated and if it's necessary to change it here too?

Spoiler: role PMs

vanilla townie

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities:

• You have no special abilities, but you have your voice and your vote.

You win when all the threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

town alien

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Town Alien

.

Abilities:

• Each Night, you may target another player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will simultaneously roleblock that player, and also render them untargetable by all other actions during that Night.

You win when all the threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

town friendly neighbor neighbor

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Town Friendly Neighbor Neighbor

.

Abilities:

• Friendly Neighbor:
  Once every Night you may target another player to inform them that your alignment is
  Town
  .
  
• Neighbor:
  You are a Neighbor with
  Playername
  . Your Private Topic is here.

You win when all the threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

[game PM: "

Playername

's alignment is

Town

."]

town pt cop

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Town PT Cop

.

Abilities:

• Each Night, you may target another player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether they have access to a private topic.

You win when all the threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

[game PMs: "

Playername

has access to a private topic.", "

Playername

does not have access to a private topic.", "You receive no result."]

mafia tracker

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Mafia Tracker

.

Factional:

• You are a member of the Mafia, along with
  Playername
  , who is a
  Mafia Watcher
  , and
  Playername
  , who is a
  Mafia Goon
  .
  
• Once every Night, a living member of the Mafia may submit a factional kill action.
  
• You may talk with your living teammates in the Mafia Private Topic, located here. You may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

Abilities:

• Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will discover which player they targeted that Night, if any.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name or by posting in your PT.

[game PMs: "

Playername

targeted

name

.", "

Playername

did not target anyone.", "You receive no result."]

mafia watcher

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Mafia Watcher

.

Factional:

• You are a member of the Mafia, along with
  Playername
  , who is a
  Mafia Tracker
  , and
  Playername
  , who is a
  Mafia Goon
  .
  
• Once every Night, a living member of the Mafia may submit a factional kill action.
  
• You may talk with your living teammates in the Mafia Private Topic, located here. You may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

Abilities:

• Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn learn who, if anybody, targeted that player that Night.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name or by posting in your PT.

[game PMs: "

Playername

was targeted by

name(s)

.", "

Playername

was not targeted by anyone.", "You receive no result."]

mafia goon

Welcome,

Playername

. You are a

Mafia Goon

.

Factional:

• You are a member of the Mafia, along with
  Playername
  , who is a
  Mafia Tracker
  , and
  Playername
  , who is a
  Mafia Watcher
  .
  
• Once every Night, a living member of the Mafia may submit a factional kill action.
  
• You may talk with your living teammates in the Mafia Private Topic, located here. You may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

Abilities:

• You have no special abilities, but you have your voice and your vote.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name or by posting in your PT.

[implosion]

hello

when i asked george what kinda setup he wants me to make, i was told "let there be an alien" and "no neapolitans", so if anything gotta be changed, can't be that

i have not written role PMs yet and will do so as soon as we agree on the setup

Unfortunately, the only way to balance this setup will be to add some neapolitans

[implosion]

There's been some discussion about changing the town win condition wording; nothing concretely decided yet.

[Datisi]

would "You win when there are no longer any threats to Town." and "You win when there are no longer any threats to the Mafia, or nothing can prevent this from occuring." work? (once when i was scum my wincon was worded as "when threats to the Mafia have been eliminated" and i thought calling the Town a threat to Mafia was really neat)

i dunno if it's necessary to change in these role PMs but for the sake of some sorta normalcy or consistency of the wincons being unambiguous then i guess

[implosion]

Technically (and this actually applies to your original wording!) you should have a clause "and at least one [town/mafia] player is alive" as well, to avoid both sides winning if everyone dies (which can't happen in this setup but etc).

[Datisi]

zzz why are words difficult

"You win when there are no longer any threats to Town and at least one Town player is alive."

"You win when there are no longer any threats to the Mafia (or nothing can prevent this from occuring) and at least one Mafia player is alive."

[GeorgeBailey]

If neaps make the setup balanced then sure lmao.

I just see them a ton, which is why I was joking around that they're banned.

[Datisi]

i once wanted to have a traffic analyst in my game but the reviewers made me replace it with a neapolitan

oh the horror

[Nexus]

sorry I forgot about this. will be reading shortly.

[Nexus]

Looks balance. Now reading the role PMs.

[Nexus]

Can I see your rule set too

[Nexus]

Role PMs look fine. Are you letting a Mafia use their power and kill at the same time?

[Datisi]

yes, i was thinking of including multitasking. that fine?

[Nexus]

I think so, although i would be open to making it so as they can only do it if they are the last one alive.

[Datisi]

is that an option in normals?

[Nexus]

I don't remember, I'll let mastina weigh in.

[GeorgeBailey]

This is the ruleset I usually show:

Spoiler:

Rules

Completely stolen from Plotinus

IMPORTANT BIT

1. Days: 14 days, Night: 2 days
   
2. Majority eliminations
   
3. 36 hours before prod, 24 hours before replacement, 24 hour weekends
   
4. Bah posts allowed (limit: 1, free of game related content)
   
5. I have some unusual rules about tiny text, and prodging. Scroll down for details.
   
6. Don’t be a dick

1. Mod colour
   – My mod colour is
   Purple(?)
   (#8040FF); don't use it.
   
2. Behaviour
   - Don’t be a dick. This is a heated game but toxicity will not be tolerated. Attack the play not the player. If your fellow players tell you to stop, you must stop. If you do not stop, I will tell you to stop. If you still do not stop, you will be force-replaced. Asking people to stop voting you or to stop scumhunting you entirely doesn't count for this rule and you may find yourself eliminated if you try it.
   
3. Don't talk about ongoing games
   - You may not talk to each other about this game outside of threads I have created for this purpose. You may not talk about other ongoing games in this thread.
   
4. Tiny text
   - Is of the devil, keep it 70+ please.
   
5. Provable randomness
   - is against the rules. Saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tags or random.org is not.
   
6. Claiming scum
   - by yourself is fine. Claiming scum with another player is against the rules.
   
7. Cryptography
   - is forbidden. Breadcrumbing is okay.
   
8. Confirmation
   - You have about 72 hours to confirm your role and your alignment by PM. Game will start sooner if everyone confirms. Posting in a private topic counts as confirmation.
   
9. Days
   - Days last 14 days. Extensions may be granted if there are replacements, or if the majority of players make it clear to me that an extension is desired.
   
10. Activity
    - You must post at least once every 36 hours or I will Prod you. You then have 24 hours to post in the game thread or I will replace you. If you come back before I find a replacement, you can stay. The activity timers run at half-speed on weekends. Players can request me to prod somebody early. This will only count as an official prod if you don't post before you would have been due for a prod. If you haven't posted in the 24 hours before the thread is locked for night, you must reply to the night start PM or you will be replaced during the night. If you accumulate 4 prods, you are then force replaced.
    
11. Vacation/Limited Access
    If you need to be absent for longer than this, you should declare V/LA in bold in the thread like this:
    @Mod: I will be v/la until Thursday
    . While you are V/LA, you will be nudged once every 54 hours. Two nudges equals one prod. If you have not posted game advancing content in 5 days, regardless of V/LA status, you will be replaced.
    
12. Prodging
    - A naked "prod dodge" does not reset the prod timer. To avoid being prodded/replaced for inactivity, include some game advancing content in your prodges, such as "got prodded; xxxx is still scum."
    
13. Quoting
    - You may not quote (or copy paste) any private information into the thread, including your role PM and any mod communication.
    
14. Voting
    - Votes must be in bold in the format VOTE: GeorgeBailey or Vote: GeorgeBailey. Strong preference for using vote tags instead of bold tags. Unvotes are nice but not required. If I think it’s a vote, it’s a vote, no tricks. Type VOTE: GeorgeBailey to vote and UNVOTE: GeorgeBailey to unvote.
    
15. Eliminate
    - Days end early when a simple majority of players (50% of living players + 1 rounded down) vote to eliminate somebody. If a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no eliminate, the day will end without a elimination. At evens, 50% is sufficient for no elimination.
    
16. Twilight
    - Begins when a majority is reached and lasts until I lock the thread. You're still alive until I flip you so you can talk in any game threads you have access to until then, but no votes or unvotes will be counted.
    
17. Night
    - Night lasts at least 48 hours. The night phase can be shortened if every living player -- even those with no night actions -- agrees to it and if I'm not busy.
    
18. Action submissions
    - You may submit actions via PM (if town) or PT (if scum). If the actions are not submitted by the deadline then you do nothing. You can change your mind as many times as you like before the deadline.
    
19. Reminders
    - If I don't hear from you about your night actions, I'll PM you 24 hours before the deadline. This doesn't count as a prod. If I still don't hear from you, you will take no action.
    
20. Notes PT
    - Let me know if you want a private thread to store your thoughts and feedback for the other players. This thread will be made public immediately after the game. You may draft posts in your notes PT but you may not talk about your notes PT in public. You definitely may not use the notes PT to demonstrate that you've had a town mindset in private all along; just put your town mindset in public to begin with and keep your notes to yourself.
    
21. Play to win
    - this particular game, not some future one, and keep it fun!

Then in a separate post i'd say like "Mafia has daytalk, Mafia has multitasking, etc"

[Nexus]

I hate rule 12. I don’t think it’s the mods job to police the content of posts.

[GeorgeBailey]

The only time I ever used that rule is here:

1st post is a pagetop lol

Jake the Wolfie has been prodded!

Prodging - A naked "prod dodge" does not reset the prod timer. To avoid being prodded/replaced for inactivity, include some game advancing content in your prodges, such as "got prodded; xxxx is still scum."

Jake didnt post in 3 days and the only thing he said was about getting a page top. I agree that it isnt the mods job to police content, but I think the rule is more of policing activity.

But if the rule is that bad I'll remove it. That's just my plea :p