Open 784 - Hard-Boiled (Town Wins!)

[PenguinPower]

Will someone explain Deimos and Word town to me? I have but a bird brain.

[PenguinPower]

And a pagetop, so I'm okay with that.

[Doctor Drew]

Is there a fascination with anime that someone could sum up?

Anime is dope try it sometime

If there are any claims, please let me know, because I don't understand why I shouldn't be suspecting Deimos or Word.

Lol Deimos has been townblocked (blocced?) by p. much everyone D1, and word has been townblocked by most except me (I think?). Ik you haven't read, but usually if you put people down as your second/third lynch options you have some reasoning besides "why not"

I have been weary of Deimos most of the game, only as of late I am feeling better about him. Would be tough to include him in my townblocc at the mo.

Also, anime sucks......scum points for Super.

I don't want my opinion on on anime to be lost forever.

Also, the Deimos bit is important too.....I guess.

[PenguinPower]

Maybe you could explain the Deimos bit?

Also, your horrible opinion on Anime.

[word321]

for yall having health problems, good luck; I hope yall get well soon.

[word321]

now, I guess its time to answer superbowl

[Doctor Drew]

Maybe you could explain the Deimos bit?

Also, your horrible opinion on Anime.

Just finished a game with town Deimos, and early on in this game his posting seemed a little different(he had a very analytical style that was lacking a bit here). But lately I sense a bit more of critical thinking I remembered. Now this was after I mentioned why I was weary of him, so I am not ready to call him town(unlike others), but would rather get rid of others(ie you, Penguin) before Deimos.

As far as anime goes, I think votato can best sum up why my opinion is correct.

Just wait until he shows up, he will blow your mind!

[PenguinPower]

Oof.

[PenguinPower]

On multiple accounts tbh

[superbowl9]

I am totally down to write an essay defending anime

[Doctor Drew]

Any minute now votato will be here to back me.....any minute.

*checks watch*

[the worst]

VC 1.14

Marashu (4)

- superbowl9, Worcestershire, Battle Mage, Looker

Battle Mage (1)

- Tuxedo Mask

Nash (2)

- ceejayvinoya, Marashu

PenguinPower (2)

- Doctor Drew, word321

votato (1)

- Nash

Not Voting (3)

- Penguin Power, Deimos27, votato

With 7 votes to hammer... Marashu is at H-3 (3 votes until hammer)

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-07-07 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Joined Mod iso
PenguinPower is v/la for the weekend.
Doctor Drew V/LA until Friday.
anime is indefensible.

[Tuxedo Mask]

i think we should ban word.

Famous last words.

I think I feel better about a Marshu lynch than a Penguin one at this point.

(Redacted Question: was going to ask PP why the feel less energetic than when they replaced into Brass, but their excuse is pretty good.)

VOTE: Marshu H-2.

[JacksonVirgo]

i think we should ban word.

Famous last words.

I think I feel better about a Marshu lynch than a Penguin one at this point.

(Redacted Question: was going to ask PP why the feel less energetic than when they replaced into Brass, but their excuse is pretty good.)

VOTE: Marshu H-2.

Mod Note from the Hospital

PP replaced Midari, or did I read this wrong

[word321]

Spoiler:

On marashu:

1. Much of his posting seems bare-bones and simply states obvious facts or puts out reads with little evidence/reasoning. Can you name 3 things Marashu has contributed to the game so far? I'm not sure i could name one.

2. There's been a wagon on him since pg. 14. Over 350 posts, 5 Marashu posts (that activity lol), and not 1 word discussing his own wagon/voters, even when others have been curious as to the case on him? Seems very "If I ignore this pressure maybe it will go away" imo, and I can't see town thinking that.

3. Contradiction: he votes a random slot to "apply more pressure", yet his own activity/defense has been lacking/nonexistent despite having a wagon on him for half of D1. If you value game contributions, why put out bare-bones content and naked reads? Expanding on this note, he seems willing to ask basic questions or for explanation of reads, but has yet to explain *any* of his own reads without prompting. Usually if you are asking others to explain you'd explain at least a few of your own reads instead of just throwing stuff out there, no?

4. Terrible votes: after 2 RVS votes, votes Tuxedo only after being prompted by deimos, and keeps that vote there for almost the rest of the day. Then unvotes because he's "come around". Then out of nowhere votes Nash to "apply pressure"??? That vote's got less pressure than a flat tire. If he actually wanted to apply some pressure, wouldn't he be explaining himself and lobbying for people to join him? He's essentially been sitting on either TM (applied so much pressure with E-5) or no one for the entire day.

Spoiler:

I do enjoy that you can use "dynamic and insightful" logic to townread Marashu

If you've not seen a terminal lack of scumhunting, I do think you're actively trying to townread this slot for one reason or another. Yes, Marashu will take the first step in scumhunting, but what helpful interactions has he produced? What pressure is he creating? It's essentially going through the motions.

midaris reaction was suspicious; but yet again, there was a lot of reticence to explore that posibility (from players like superbowl and deimos)

The case for town Midari has been made a bunch of times, yet you act as though Deimos and I just couldn't get a grasp on just how "obviously scummy" her reaction was lol? Also this case doesn't work because I can say you (puts on monacle) "have been quite reticent in hopping on the Marashu wagon good sir!" Sounds ridiculous, right? Especially since you just made the case for Marshu being town

maras wagon was easy to stay on, and the only actual argument necessary for was quoting BM

If I wanted an easy wagon to stay on, I'd join you on PP You also act as though BM's post is the only reason anyone was on the wagon? Although I agree with BM, as you've just seen I have my own reasons to suspect him, and I'm sure others do as well - no one is just sheeping here lol (okay maybe worchestire).

Final point, in 610 you dismissed the Midari noob town/too scummy to be scum argument. I have an issue with this because to deny that noobs/VIs should be treated differently from any other player just encourages easy mislynches. You can't hold Midari or worchestire to the same standard you would hold a Deimos or word123 ( ) to. The argument that she knew what she was doing is honestly laughable - what skilled scum have you EVER seen play remotely close to that? So far it seems to me that you and others on the Midari wagon have been the ones flying under the radar looking for an easy wagon/mislynch, not the Marashu folks.

I think u didnt rly get the point of the main arguments from what I see.
First of all, Marashu as a player has nothing by himself to call for a townread; Im actually not townreading Marashu, that is simply false. The thing Ive said about Marashu is that he is not terminally scum himself; all the way until now the main point on the "marashu wagon" case was never that midari was not scum (or at least, it was never the focus of the arguments), but that Marashu himelf is a way better alternative. First foul.

Second, the dynamics surrounding Marashu wagon r what is interesting. Lets analyze how it all began, shall we?

Spoiler:

Marashu's ISO is horrible. Lots of examples of going out of his way to be helpful, without scumhunting. I remember when I was a newbie, I had a similar approach as scum - it bolsters the post count and makes it seem like you're contributing actively when you aren't having to really commit to anything. And a real lack of self-awareness in his remarks to Midari in post 328, accusing Midari of "looking for reasons to suspect me" when his whole post strikes a similar tone.

@Mod - Battle Mage is no longer voting No Lynch

Mod Note

Thanks

@votato you should put your vote somewhere.

Also I just noticed that Worcestershire hasn't posted yet.

Good job Worcestershire. You gottem.

Says the person who opened with the exact same post...

"Townbloc" in which sense ?

I see you signed up right before this game - do you have any prior mafia experience?

either way, I still dnt buy completely deimos attitude. I feel the particular questions he has made r too generic in nature, too general, and easily replicable as scum to feign an investigation of sorts (im talkin about things like 48, 168 and 173 as the most generic, others can be replicable). Im also not convinced of the actual intent behind the even distribution of votes; do u have any game when u have openly upheld such an opinion?
VOTE: Deimos
ninjaed by the above

Regarding the distribution of votes, it was discussed briefly in Newbie 2002.

Wait, why are you responding, Marashu?

I was in that game and remembered it coming up.

What do you mean in "our" experience?

We're talking about the Treestump game we played where a townie self voted on like page 2.

By "we" and "our" are you referring to yourself and votato?

VOTE: Marshu

Let's see if the gambler's fallacy holds this time.

Half the game is 90% mental.

This argument initially was heavily skewed in favor of Marashu being scum, deliberately or not. See the order of the posts; its increasing then it comes back to D1 posts. Since we usually put more value on the latter posts ppl do since the first r usually on the random side, this leaves the impression those posts were done at a latter part of the game, wich make them more evasive. And yet again, it could simply have been that BM went from one point down and then went up looking for more.
Posts wich actually dealt with scumhunt (wich in itself cound have been weak scumhunt or whatnots) were also missing:

Spoiler:

I've heard self- voting in rvs is almost always done by scum. Can anyone confirm that?

I've seen it done by town D1, but not in RVS.

VOTE: word321
To create a favourable vote distribution that precipitates effective scumhunting, of course.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ceejay
Townlean brassherald for making a high-quality RVS vote.

Mind running this one by me? Feels like you're trying to stay neutral and keep even distribution, but I don't see to what end.

why do you townread me then?

Townping from votato

tuxedo/drew is a good guess at this point for page 5

Why drew specifically? I've got him as a slight TL. Tuxedo might be scum though.

Also, town points for announcing the L-2. I have seen wagons fairly quickly formed early in the game where people don't do this and then a lol hammer happens. Though if Midari is in fact scum than there may be an associative tell there, but I don't want to put the carriage before the horse.

Honestly, I think it would be embarrassing if she gets lolhammered after self-voting.

Marashu, you got any reads yet?

Right now I've got Drew and votato as town. slight TL on word as well. Tuxedo Mask is giving me a gut scum ping. I'm having a hard time reading brass. Battle Mage is feeling off, but other people are saying this is normal play. Midari's play is erratic, but I'm gathering that some of that is a bit, and the on-topic posts have been pretty alright. Null pretty much everywhere else.

PEdit

Tuxedo Mask, why are you so focused on Drew?

I enjoy joking around with them. Also based on how our last game went, I sort of want to test this game as a ripple out from Drew in the center if that makes sense?

Ok, and what have you found from it?

Why aren't you voting Tux, if he is your scumlean?

I guess partly because I'm distracted, and partly because I had asked questions and was waiting for answers in case they changed my opinions.

Reread the game, this was untrue. You are the center of lots of discussions this game, I guess I got that vibes because I don't really know how people feel about you? Like it seems you aren't being scum read, but I don't think I see any town reads either. Guess just felt off to me. You're there a lot but I don't know what people think of you.

Ok, but, why should other people's reads on Drew matter to you? I was asking what you learned about other people by focusing on Drew, not what you learned about Drew by what other people are saying about him.

VOTE: Tuxedo

Ah so like most newbie games then when we get bloated.

I've heard before that longer days are typically better for scum, and from the games I've played as scum, town performed better in the games with shorter early games.

Big bad catch-up post:

Mind running this one by me? Feels like you're trying to stay neutral and keep even distribution, but I don't see to what end.

Marashu, if you remembered this coming up in Newbie 2002, why did you need me to explain it again?

It's more that you were showing that you were keeping the votes evenly distributed by moving your vote. I was more interested at the time in why you were moving your vote around in the first place, and you addressed that in your reply. I asked your preference in 61 exactly because I remembered Lucky doing that.

Because I am unsure of other's reputation, but Drew's is to be scum read. So the current state is an abnormality, I am trying to identify why. Is the abnormality in their play, or in how other's treat them? Is that abnormality nefarious?

I think I see. You're basically saying that, if Drew hasn't changed, then it could be that mafia is not only not framing him but is actively pushing him as town? From the fact that you are townreading Drew, does this mean you think that they are trying to pocket him?

Nothing strong so far, which doesn't feel great. I think I'm getting townie pings from Votato, Drew, Deimos and Midari. Those are the only things strong enough to mention.

Could you explain the townping on Midari?

This was your wagon at its peak (correct me if I'm wrong), so I'll pose this question to the group is scum on this wagon. I think that's likely. If so, who and how many? My gut says just one, between Marshu and Word. That or the wagon looked to carry it's self well enough, and scum wanted to avoid it.

I think it's very likely that scum was on the Midari wagon and that scum is on the Pi wagon. Unless the scumteam is completely in {piisirattional,votato,brassherald,Worcestershire} scum was on at least one of those wagons.
Looking at the Pi wagon, I'm not liking the way cj and BM joined the wagon.

Wors, Mara (Not sold on), Pii, superbowl9, I want to hear more from votato as well.

Why am I on your radar? Are you looking for reasons to suspect me?

Are you aware that I am quoting pi in that post? It has nothing to do with you, votato.

This is something town!votato does.

What's the scum motivation to my actions?

I don't know, but at the same time, and more importantly to me, I don't know what the town motivation is, either.

I like this answer.

All well and good. Would you mind addressing it, then?

I see you haven't played with votato before

If you have, this makes me suspicious.

That was all before 335. If u ask me, there is some degree of scumhunting thorough the whole game; I am known to comment and "help" and whatnots on other games, so I think that associating scum with that being deliberative of some sorts is a very very weak tell.
Now, my honest opinion is that I dnt like how his reads have evolved on the game, specially after the wagon; but nothing of that matters, cause BMs argument was the only thing ppl talked about for

350

posts like u say.
The important thing is the perception, and how fast the wagon gained track after BM and Deimos decided to begin it; it gave the perception of being solid (at least in that players had solid confidence in the wagon and Marashu being scum); and perception is reality, and yada yada yada, uve heard of me on this already.
So if u ask me, comparing just that factor alone, amount of scumhunting, I think its fair to say Marashu have way more than Midari/PP (go ISO her if u want). So it is indeed weird that he was avidly scumread

for that in particular

while not actually interacting with him about it (or at least, that was the case with a lot of slots, specially with the ones who came late to the wagon), if we consider it would be reasonable to iso him or something like that.

On the other hand, comparatively Midari has been way more deflective without calling attention; there is an innate reaction to

call her town

(wich is more appropiate indeed, that saying that there is few intent to search there). And about the "reticense" thing, I know Im town; I know Drew was the first and for a lot of time only guy to go (and stay) On Midari; so It looks pretty reticent to me tbh. I didnt find it pertinent to go at Maras wagon at the time cause I deemed it unnecessary (and even helpful, since that way there would be more space to other ppl) to not join it immediatly; since ur main argumen is on the lines "u r defending mara, not attacking midari", if I rly wanted to defend Mara I would have ripped to shreds BMs attack in situ like I did here, but I found that improductive; I wanted a wagon on Mara.
The thing is, I dnt think u can make that "town midari" ignoring the applicability of most of the arguments that can be made on Mara on her; and about the "newbiness" of midari, Ive said it already: Its completely and uterly irrelevant. I dnt judge ppl by newbienss. I judge ppl by being consistent to themselves and by the way they take postures in the game. She reacted to wagons on her advancing forwards; thats a bad sign, if u have experience and if u havent. The lack of initiative towards active slots is bad on newbie and veterans alike. Her experience is not into play. I dnt have a "standard" for players; I never had. If u think something shitty, thats alright as long as u think that bc u believe that; effectiveness has nothing to do with alignment, and searching for alignment dsnt discriminate on experience (in fact, the enwbier the easier).

[word321]

well, we use midari cause the case is mostly on her actions and words and iso, and not on penguin himself, wich happens to be in the slot

[word321]

I think I asnwered the main points of superbowl
if anything is not clear enough, ask it again

[word321]

finally, thanks for actually giving a case on mara; i may believe u have ur own reasons and do believe he is scum
but i do want to hear from the others; nothing is sure until ppl actually talk

[word321]

i want to see how deimos react to the game rn; still waiting his answer.

[word321]

well, im kind of done for today I think

[word321]

Im kind of tired of writing huge wall of texts

[word321]

im stepping down on the rest of D1

[the worst]

announcement!!!

Aristophanes replaces votato!!

[the worst]

VC 1.15

Marashu (4)

- superbowl9, Worcestershire, Battle Mage, Looker

Battle Mage (1)

- Tuxedo Mask

Nash (2)

- ceejayvinoya, Marashu

PenguinPower (2)

- Doctor Drew, word321

Aristophanes (1)

- Nash

Not Voting (3)

- Penguin Power, Deimos27, Aristophanes

With 7 votes to hammer... Marashu is at H-3 (3 votes until hammer)

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-07-07 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Joined Mod iso
PenguinPower is v/la for the weekend.
Doctor Drew V/LA until Friday.

[Aristophanes]

This is a blatant egopost until I read up. 30 pages ain't bad though.

What's the case on Marashu?