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- Truth
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Truth
- Truth
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Truth Goon
- Truth
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- Blair
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Blair Mafia Scum
- Blair
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- Location: Leavesden, Hertfordshire
That means your buddy has been posting since we began this discussion?“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot- Looker
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Looker Stenographer
- Looker
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What I'm saying to you is that, until you say "I've looked at games where you were town and games where you were scum, and this game most closely resembles the games wherein you were scum", I don't find your observation useful.In post 1873, Dunnstral wrote:
Looker, you ask why I'm wondering about this, right? I can't differentiate your current play from the game you were mafia in.In post 1861, Dunnstral wrote:
Your playstyle in this game is similar to our last game I saw you in, where you were mafiaIn post 1850, Looker wrote:I don't understand Dunnstral's request to self-meta. When I'm scum I'm scum and when I'm town I'm town.
So, by this logic, should we flip who Blair thinks is town?In post 1880, Glitch wrote:Scum knew they weren't on Blair's radar so they let her live to kill off more town. Blair isn't a logical target for scum until she starts to get on their trail.
That just means we need to dive deep into some back pages and make sure we nail it right because this next lynch can easily land us in some rough town/scum ratios.
Need to go back and re-read some previous content. I have friends over right now but will get on this later tonight.In post 1881, Dunnstral wrote:I believe the above posts indicate that the players are not masons with Truth.Spoiler:
Blair is the vig, I doubt she's a mason
I'm not a mason.
Truth is lying about his claim.- Blair is claiming vig with no counterclaims in a closed setup. It's not mechanically confirmed, but I can let it slide.
- Truth claimed mason with no buddy to back him up and wasn't on the popopo wagon. Who is Truth's scumpartner? If I'm already voting Nauci, why wouldn't he jump on the wagon?
- I have to take it that it's group consensus that Norway was killed by scum and LicketyQuick by vig?
- If Blair thought I was being inauthentic, why didn't she call me out 6-7 pages ago?
- I find it suspicious how Nauci is avoiding Truth. If Blair's not scum, then that moves Dunnstral up for me.
Spoiler:- Blair
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Blair Mafia Scum
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Your reads sound like you are not Truth's neighbor/mason. Is that correct?“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot- Blair
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Blair Mafia Scum
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And... he's gone again.
Taking that as a "I'm not masons or neighbors with Truth" post then because there's no way you read that conversation we were having about it and didn't speak up about it if you are.
@Truth
Who is your Mason partner?“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot- Truth
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Truth Goon
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I can't copy-paste so I will have to explain it in my words. My buddy does not want to claim today and is telling me to ask you all to wait one more day. They don't see a beneficial reason to claim today and think it's fine to got into tomorrow without claiming because they think mafia have no idea who they are.
They also think Blair should claim her vigilante target before ending the day, and if it is them, they will claim in that case.- Blair
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Blair Mafia Scum
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VOTE: Truth
Wrong answer.
You haven't been nearly townie enough to warrant waiting to resolve you until endgame. Who is your partner?“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot- Truth
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Truth Goon
- Truth
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- Blair
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Blair Mafia Scum
- Blair
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I'm starting to think Truth's Mason buddy is just Truth talking to a mirror.“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot- Nauci
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Nauci Mafia Scum
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- Blair
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Blair Mafia Scum
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It has a lot to do with how confident you are that there will be at least one scum between Truth and [other person you would choose].
If you're 100% confident that at least one would be scum, then the oder becomes immaterial.
Otherwise, we have to consider the possibility that they are both town - in which case voting one out today and shooting the other tonight would lose us the game.“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot- Blair
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Blair Mafia Scum
- Blair
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- Nauci
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Nauci Mafia Scum
- Nauci
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u fockin' wot m8In post 1928, Looker wrote:I find it suspicious how Nauci is avoiding Truth.- Nauci
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Nauci Mafia Scum
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I am using the premise here that Truth is 100% scum, but the other person we may want dead is not–in which case I am wondering if we want to find out the one we are unsure about first, and then shooting truth in order to maximally narrow down POE and not waste what is likely your last vig shot.In post 1936, Blair wrote:It has a lot to do with how confident you are that there will be at least one scum between Truth and [other person you would choose].
If you're 100% confident that at least one would be scum, then the oder becomes immaterial.
Otherwise, we have to consider the possibility that they are both town - in which case voting one out today and shooting the other tonight would lose us the game.- Blair
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Blair Mafia Scum
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I think you probably want to resolve the stronger scumread first because if today's flip is town then I probably don't want to shoot at all.“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot- Blair
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Blair Mafia Scum
- Blair
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Based on the final vote count from yesterday, when we remove all expired players, we are left with two groups:
On Wagon:
(in order)
Looker
Blair (Vig) --- Counterclaimed Popo
Dunnstral
Off Wagon:
Nauci
Glitch
Truth
NDMath
I think it's probably fair to assume one scum would have bussed (how often do you NOT see one bus when scum fake claims a known town role?)
It is also probably fair to assume one scum was off the wagon (since Popo self-hammered)
I have lower confidence in the latter but it's still more likely than not.
The question for the on-wagon group is: Do you think scum bussed early and vote parked (Looker) or jumped on after the counterclaim (Dunnstral)?“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot- Truth
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Truth
- Blair
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Blair Mafia Scum
- Blair
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- Glitch
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Glitch Mafia Scum
- Glitch
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I went back and did some re-reading and some digging, and the best place I knew to start after my re-read of yesterday was to check out each player's relationship with popo. Let me case each player out:
Spoiler: Blair and Po
Spoiler: Dunnstral/mavs and Po
Spoiler: Glitch and Po
Spoiler: Looker and Po
Spoiler: Nauci and Po
Spoiler: NDmath and Po
Spoiler: Truth and Po
Blair: Blair had an early TR on popo when she first replaced in and then didn't say much on her from there, but she and Norway were the ones who successfully set the trap and caught popo in his own lies. Blair spoke out against popo consistently in D2. No way Blair is scum.
Dunnstral/mavs: Fluff and nothing of note. Not taking a stand, just co-existing and not rocking the boat. Could be scummy. Does advocate for popo to be shot by vig yesterday in order to give the town and extra kill. Says we shouldn't kill popo unless a counter claim comes out. Counter claim comes out and Dunn votes popo. There's scummy stuff here and townie stuff here that pulls me in both directions.
Glitch: I've always gotten scum vibes from po and voted for him in D2 but switched when realizing we could get a certain scum kill by lynching Truth and shooting popo. I've consistently spoken out against popo.
Looker: Continuously questions and pushes against popo, but not with remarkable strength. Only votes for popo once there's actual confirmation from Norway on a guilty read. Could be genuine town -- could be scum bussing because he has to in order to not be SR'd.
Nauci: Nauci spends the first part of the game asking about the vote slave pact, which granted we all did, but that's easy to coast with as scum. Then in 819 makes a large quote wall defense of Po's vote for CSF saying it was genuine, not done to get pressure off of him. Why does Nauci care so much?
NDmath: Absolutely nothing except null reads, then spiritually joins the wagon when there's no way to oppose a popo elimination.
Truth: Truth has been completely against and opposed to popo ALL ALONG.I am so conflicted because everything is telling me to hang this slot and yet how could Truth possibly be scum, play as poorly as he has, AND bus popo literally the entire game?I just don't understand.
I think it would be a much safer choice to aim for either Nauci or NDmath for the elimination today because they're the ones most suspect on my radar right now by PoE, and their stances on Po in the past. NDmath because of the lack of contribution overall; what an easy way to fly straight through the game if you literally just don't say anything productive about your scum partner at all? And Nauci stands out to me because of the defensiveness; it's not outright and strong, but that in and of itself is how scum would do it, so they wouldn't appear to be hardcore defending their partner. If we can't agree on one of them I'd be willing to talk about Dunn but his content reads more null to me whereas Nauci and NDmath have some legitimate points we need to consider.
I know this is a big sway but we have to really think about how Truth has related to popopo. I would advocate that we choose not to lynch Truth today because we are risking shooting a town slot -- the only way he is scum is if he has been conning us this whole game with a noob facade, which isn't out of the realm of possibilities, but I genuinely don't believe it to be the case when I analyze everything.
So let's zoom in close on NDmath. I've had suspicions on NDmath for a while. Firstly, my vote is not because I'm your top scum read, honestly that's fine. I'm a top scum read in every town game I play. People always say I'm a noob and my scumhunting sucks. As much as I continue trying to improve, it's just reality that my town play comes across as poor and noobish a lot of the times and that gets me votes. So the fact that you've consistently SR'd me is not my motivation here. Previous players who immediately jump onto others because they're their top SR is irritating to me because it's just OMGUS and people triggered that they're under suspicion.
This particular paragraph has nagged me for a while and I really don't like the use of a vote.
I'm a big believer in wagons and votes. We have 2 tools to use unless given a PR, and those are our voice and our votes. Even if you're not certain, use your vote. You don't have to be certain. It's a tool to form pressure, pressure creates content, and content creates results. Mafia can easily hide behind the curtain of withholding their vote to try to stay under the radar.In post 828, NDMath wrote:I didn't see value in voting at that point in time. I don't get why I can't be not voting in peace when it's still early in the dayphase and I'm not one to case early on. I'm helping just as much without voting in that you got the impression that if I did vote it would be for you and received the same amount of pressure from it, I don't get that point at all.
Additionally, there are lots of random instances that make me raise my eyebrow that pile up. GuiltyLion made a strong case against you in 878 bringing your meta into the game. (And the very next page you have a strong enough SR on GL to vote for him. Shallow.) There's also your legendary 986 self-scum-meta where you prophesy your own playstyle as being scummy. Then there's this:
Pray, do tell, in which of your 18 posts this game have you genuinely scumhunted?In post 1320, NDMath wrote:The thought that I'm not scumhunting this game. Since I didn't bother to pretend to scumhunt in my scum game.
Additionally:
In post 828, NDMath wrote:I'm not understanding the attacks on osuka.In post 908, NDMath wrote:(Posting one at a time to make lion happy.)
I read osuka's iso, I should have done that in the first place.In post 836, Nauci wrote:
What's there to not understand?In post 828, NDMath wrote:I'm not understanding the attacks on osuka.
Osuka's posts comprise of the brief fight with Quick, a lot of posts facepalming at Truth which are mostly meaningless, and a very lazy and unsubstantiated push on me.
I scumreads the way that Osuka talks about my posting as "weird" repeatedly without ever explaining weird how—it's exactly the kind of shallow shade throwing without being able to come up with a proper case/narrative that signifies scum pushes vs town ones, especially at an opportune time when others like CSF were FoSing me.
He has repeatedly tried to misconstrue the way I have tried to explain his meta to the game as buddying, even though I've repeatedly told him and everyone else why I said what I did about him and wasn't at buddying. He's not engaging with my push at all or answering my question.In post 909, NDMath wrote:
I'm getting too much humour out of people making comments on me not voting.In post 860, Nauci wrote: @NDMath you said you were fully caught up, right? Why are you still not voting?
VOTE: GuiltyLion
So let me get this straight. First, you don't understand why people are suspecting osuka. Then you read his ISO. (And what? Now you get it? Or you don't agree?) Then you vote GL immediately after that. (Did you SR him after reading his ISO? Or did you not agree with him being scummy at that point?) And then fast forward you declare intent to hammer osuka. What changed? I saw no content whatsoever in your iso between your 908 comment and your out-of-the-blue intent to hammer. The only thing you mentioned about him is how bewildered and confused you were by his behavior and that it doesn't make sense for either alignment. What was the progression there?In post 1501, NDMath wrote:I have Intent to hammer on osuka.
This doesn't even mention the fact that when popo was finally nailed and the ship was RAPIDLY sinking and he knew it, he last-minute voted for you. Why? Why would he vote for you on a sinking ship? Po got all wrapped up in a trap and played his way poorly all the way through the end. Did he play so poorly to try and keep our suspicions off of you by letting his last vote be placed on you? A sad attempt at a last minute bus?
Let's crack down and stop playing games. Let's get real and deal with the fact that Truth is not smart enough to bus popo an entire game, but NDmath's posts are lacking across the board.- Glitch
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Glitch Mafia Scum
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Truth Goon
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Okay, I will admit it. I am not a miller or a mason. I am a vanilla townie and have no special abilities.
I knew I am weak when I started playing so my goal was to be killed by the mafia in the night which would help town a lot to win I think. But my plan didn't work and mafia didn't kill me. I kept asking for doctors to be on me and event alked about my buddies which never existed to make mafia believe I was really a mason, and then I was hoping they would have a strongman or they went for it anyway, but they never did...
I'm sorry for lying to you all. It seemed like a good play to me and I'm quite sure I would have been lynched on day 1 if I didn't claim it so I don't think it was a bad play. Please believe me.- Truth
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Truth Goon
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- Truth
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Truth Goon
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- Blair
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Blair Mafia Scum
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I demand credit for this.In post 1934, Blair wrote:I'm starting to think Truth's Mason buddy is just Truth talking to a mirror.“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot - Blair
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