Newbie 2016: Snapdragons (Game Over)

[JamSV]

PS - this part is for Clark. If you didn't like playing with Menalque, I have some bad news for you unfortunately.

Are you referring to Porkens? How many 500 IQ anime protagonist players are there on this site?

Yes, didn't call them a 500 IQ anime protagonist though.

[Porkens]

I’m not here to convince you that I’m town; I’m here to find the mafia

72 gets a cookie!

JamSV gets 1 demerit for his “healthy game” what does that even mean?

A wild porkens appears. Just like in Juuni Taisen I reckon they should be the first one to be hammered (I am aware chronologically it wasn't boar but its the first we saw).

I can predict with very high accuracy that when someone comes in and the first thing they say is "I like to lolhammer, and memegambit", that they're going to ruin the game.

Not to mention "I skimmed this slot and was BLOWN AWAY to get a town BM" is utter BS LAMIST nonsense.
Once again my vote is no longer going to move.

Oh , AND jam didn’t answer my question. Afraid that’s another demerit.

Invalid due to inability to read. It's almost like what is in bold is the explanation. I'm not going to act like you're stupid enough to not understand it, but I'll just play along for now. It's almost as if, lolhammering and memegambits ruin games, would prevent the game being a "healthy game". I quoted your post not because of you saying you don't want to convince us that you're town, nor because 72 gets a cookie. So I wonder what part of your post, my post referred to. If one with 12 years of experience more than I have, can't link 2 posts together, then I'm thoroughly disappointed, unless if its out of sheer arrogance, which would disappoint me for different reasons.

If you intend on having a toxic attitude and ruining the game, there's very little I tell you to do, I was 6 yo when you joined the site, I can't see someone under 12 playing mafia either. Feel free to piece together the relevance of that.

PS - this part is for Clark. If you didn't like playing with Menalque, I have some bad news for you unfortunately.

WOW, you’ve got quite a chip on your shoulder. Does that usually serve you well?

Your explanation re: a healthy game went sailing right over my head, but now that you point it out, I get’cha.

Like this is so overboard aggressive I’m going to have to issue another demerit.

[Porkens]

Why do you want more input?

Incase it's not as town oriented as I think

And why are you concerned about whether advocating that I full claim be viewed as town oriented?

I'm not concerned about it being viewed as town oriented. I'm concerned that getting you to full claim is a mistake that will hurt town

Okedoke. Do YOU think it would hurt town?

[Porkens]

Why do you want more input?

Incase it's not as town oriented as I think

And why are you concerned about whether advocating that I full claim be viewed as town oriented?

I'm not concerned about it being viewed as town oriented. I'm concerned that getting you to full claim is a mistake that will hurt town

Okedoke. Do YOU think it would hurt town?

Actually, don’t answer that.

[ClarkBar]

Porkens, you are welcome to claim if you'd like. Did you address your predecessor's false claim? What's your opinion on that? Out of curiosity. I was still in the womb when you joined this site, so your insights are like gold to me.

[Porkens]

Clark do you subscribe to the idea that shorter days are better for town?

[Porkens]

Porkens, you are welcome to claim if you'd like. Did you address your predecessor's false claim? What's your opinion on that? Out of curiosity. I was still in the womb when you joined this site, so your insights are like gold to me.

Ah! Flattery will get you everywhere how can I not answer?
I don’t....think I’m going to claim. Unless someone can present a strong protown case for me to do so.

And I’m not acknowledging whether it was a false claim or not.
I will say that LLs decision regarding his claim was a bad decision.

[ClarkBar]

Clark do you subscribe to the idea that shorter days are better for town?

It's all circumstantial of course. It seems logical that the longer a day goes on more information becomes available and better choices are made. On the other hand, if a slot is scummy then ending the day is the best choice. Why let things drag on?

[Nahdia]

Vote Count 1.10

Porkens (3):

JamSV, Raya36, Looker

Raya36 (2):

TheThirteenthJT, 72offsuit

72offsuit (2):

LicketyQuickety, Porkens

Not Voting (2):

Battle Mage, ClarkBar

Deadline is in

(expired on 2020-07-11 13:52:07)

, at which point we will default to no elimination.

With nine players alive, it takes

five

to reach majority.

Mod Note:

Please let me know if there are any errors in my vote count, thanks.

[Porkens]

Clark do you subscribe to the idea that shorter days are better for town?

It's all circumstantial of course. It seems logical that the longer a day goes on more information becomes available and better choices are made. On the other hand, if a slot is scummy then ending the day is the best choice. Why let things drag on?

If conversation grinds to a halt and no movement is possible or likely then fine end the day.

On the other hand, if there is activity and players are engaging, it only benefits the town to go on. They groundwork we do now will be fertile with associations and other information in later days.

This slot is scumread, and so scum want it to be hammered as soon as possible. They are desperate for me not to turn this wagon around. If I am hung I will flip town, and that will be the assumed motivation. so anyone who does hammer now is going to be suspect.

In short: don’t rush.

P. Edit oh lol I’m not even at H-1

[Raya36]

Why do you want more input?

Incase it's not as town oriented as I think

And why are you concerned about whether advocating that I full claim be viewed as town oriented?

I'm not concerned about it being viewed as town oriented. I'm concerned that getting you to full claim is a mistake that will hurt town

Okedoke. Do YOU think it would hurt town?

I think it could hurt town without intent placed on you because that's outing a PR for nothing if your slot is telling the truth and a town PR. Now that there's intent it's definitely beneficial for town for you to fully claim.

[Raya36]

Why do you want more input?

Incase it's not as town oriented as I think

And why are you concerned about whether advocating that I full claim be viewed as town oriented?

I'm not concerned about it being viewed as town oriented. I'm concerned that getting you to full claim is a mistake that will hurt town

Okedoke. Do YOU think it would hurt town?

Actually, don’t answer that.

Too late. I go post by post ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ClarkBar]

Huh, my math was wrong. No hammer from me I guess.

VOTE: Porkens

[JamSV]

Why do you want more input?

Incase it's not as town oriented as I think

And why are you concerned about whether advocating that I full claim be viewed as town oriented?

I'm not concerned about it being viewed as town oriented. I'm concerned that getting you to full claim is a mistake that will hurt town

Okedoke. Do YOU think it would hurt town?

I think it could hurt town without intent placed on you because that's outing a PR for nothing if your slot is telling the truth and a town PR. Now that there's intent it's definitely beneficial for town for you to fully claim.

LuckyLuciano dropped the PR claim.

[Porkens]

No it’s fine!

Anyway, reya, what do you think about the reasoning for the two votes on you?

[ClarkBar]

In short: don’t rush.

I totally hear what you're saying. You can try to extend the day and get another wagon going, that could be fun to watch. I still want your slot flipped. It would take a lot for that to change.

[Porkens]

That’s fine I just want the chance to interact with everyone first.

[ClarkBar]

That’s fine I just want the chance to interact with everyone first.

Totally fair. I know you're biased, but do you think I'm misguided in my thinking? Is my thinking even all that clear?

[Porkens]

Just so I understand your question correctly, what line of thought are you asking about?

[ClarkBar]

My wish for your execution (more the slot you're in, you seem fine despite Jam's warnings) is rooted in the read of LL I layed out in 465.

Why did you think I would hammer your slot?

[Porkens]

Last question first; I believed you then thought LL was scummy.

Ok THAT post yes I skimmed that one quite liberally.

Your scumread of LL was based on his claim and attitude change around that same time. I like how you analyze bot the scum and town motivations and they don’t seem too far off. Let me ask you this about it though:

You said essentially that “As scum or town, LL claimed one order to “Shake off attention.” Can you explain how claiming a PR diverts attention away from oneself?

[ClarkBar]

Last question first; I believed you then thought LL was scummy.

Ok THAT post yes I skimmed that one quite liberally.

Can't blame you.

Your scumread of LL was based on his claim and attitude change around that same time. I like how you analyze bot the scum and town motivations and they don’t seem too far off. Let me ask you this about it though:

You said essentially that “As scum or town, LL claimed one order to “Shake off attention.” Can you explain how claiming a PR diverts attention away from oneself?

I'll let LL do the talking...

I fake claimed because once Quick replaced in I realized he was going to hard push my slot continually throughout the game because he has an obsession with me, and wanted to either delay my elimination today and soak up a mafia NK or RB in setup A, or get eliminated anyway and make mafia obvscum in their efforts to push a claimed TPR. I'm pretty sure I've done the latter well enough.

If I'm not mistaking, that's 4 votes. I have a TPR.

Let's move on.

LL sure thought it would. So I have to choose between believing LL's stated reasons for the claim or that the motivation was scummy. I believe he was scum and tried a little gambit out of frustration and realized that he made an awful mistake with the claim and had no good way of getting out of the hole he dug and therefore rage-quit. It matters to me that he didn't claim a specific role or contribute to the discussion of whether or not he should. 72 took care of that for him.

ISO LL and look at the difference in play from before 278 and after and tell me how that's a town slot. Furthermore, even if I'm wrong, no matter how your slot flips it would majorly impact how I see the leading D1 wagons and the players on them. But I don't think I'm wrong.

[Porkens]

I’m not going to spend any time or energy trying to defend LL’s play, evaluate his ISO, or trying to make a towncase of it. Like I said

i thought he was scum

. His decisions were his, and they were bad.

My job here is not to avoid getting hanged. It’s to help the town get information.

Re: your answer. I’m going to be pedantic here and ask you in a different way: in a vacuum, do you think claiming a PR shakes attention away from the claimant?

[Porkens]

Actually never mind on that question; I don’t think it’s important.

Let’s go at this in another way. What are your current thoughts on the counterwagons?

[Battle Mage]

@Lucky, would you feel as suspect about other players who are actively on this site and not posting? I mean, I don't know what hand certain people are dealt, but sometimes I look at player posts. Clearly you do too. I'm sure you're positively flush with opinions on this. How AI do you consider it to be active on mafiascum and not posting in a select thread? Should that bluff always be called, or are there exceptions?

It depends heavily on context. I'm onsite often playing in multiple games. Sometimes I post in all of them actively. Sometimes I'm focused on one game because it's in a critical state. Sometimes I'm just taking a step back from a particular game to let the thread breathe and see what directions other players are looking to take the game in.

I think dipping the moment a non-RVS wagon starts up on you, despite posting after the wagon started (in other words, knowing that the wagon is there), is sketchy. I'm also confused as to how people don't read the deletion of her profile pic as

conceding

. She deliberately logged on to delete her profile pic. Not to post, not to lurk, but to

delete

her pic. She didn't replace it, she

deleted

it and left again. That seems to be as close as you can get to closing your account on this site. Does newbie town effectively delete their account when called scum?

Good question by Clark - newbies flaking completely is relatively NAI (it's too common as town and scum) compared to newbies lurking but staying in the game (surviving scum is winning scum).

Rebuttal here from Lucky is weak. Falsely asserts a "non-RVS" wagon had started before her final post - although possible from what I've seen later in game that Lucky-town could be conceited enough to think his original unexplained vote was non-RVS. Really beating a dead horse here with pushing the empty slot though. Nothing above to suggest Blopp's behaviour was AI (because it wasn't).

After Jam votes Lucky, language softens as highlighted (and a vintage 'honesty' tell):

A dichotomy would be correct, but not a false dichotomy.

It is a false dichotomy

my friend

. I took over 200 games on my old site and ran a statistical analysis on town winrate in terms of D1 post count per player. The result was a strong, statistically significant trend. Want to take a guess what the trend said?

You are entitled to keep throwing games as town. You do you

boo.

You seem to have missed the sample size, and the statistical significance of the results.

Gonna be real buddy

, you don't have my respect as long as you lose to players like Mikul, who has NK'd me N1 in 7 consecutive games when he's been mafia because he cannot beat town!Lucky as scum. For the record, I correctly solved that game almost immediately after D2 started. Go ask your mod how accurate the PMs were. <3

I have 2 bags. Both bags look very similar. Inside both bags are

balls

.

Sick burn from Jam.

Less keen on the progression below from Raya. Moves from targetting town to probable scum, only after momentum has shifted in this direction. Easily compatible as a partner for Lucky who decided to start distancing now they are under pressure. Red is gross - despite previously backing the case on Blopp, now backtracks and says the case is weak, but notes (with a hint of regret?) clumsily that if the case was stronger she could move back onto it:

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

Where's your vote then?

My vote is "on" Blopp I just don't want him at L-1

Perhaps it is a coincidence, but since being wagoned, Blopp has removed their profile pic. That means they have been onsite and decided not to post. So now we have her ignoring the initial wagon that I started with 72o, despite posting after it began and ignoring my case. In addition, we have her logging on to remove her profile pic and still not posting. Feels a lot like giving up to me.

This is a bad case and very reachy.

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

"I scumlean Lucky for possibly wanting a quick hammer on my other scumlean."

For the record, I'm expecting Blopp not to post again until the slot is replaced, and if the slot claims VT I will be pushing for the slot to be eliminated.

Just because I scumlean him doesnt mean I'm right (I never take associations into account D1. I often have multiple scumread that don't work together). And its perfectly viable to be concerned about someone not removing their vote at L-1 when Blopp hasn't even talked yet.

Actually since I can't vote Blopp right now VOTE: Lucky. I think this is more likely anyway. Your stats case also was reachy and the whole basis of your scumread isn't concrete.

I would accept your case if and only if it was supporting evidence of a much stronger and more viable case.

Honestly though:

1. Are you a straightforward player or like to do a lot of private analysis?
2. How upset would you be if you are lynched Day 1 from a scale of 1-10? 10 being highly upset.

1. I think I'm somewhere in the middle. Anything I think is important enough to say I will post about. I like to comment any major thoughts i have on posts. Sometimes I will keep a read secret to get more reactions etc out of someone but that's not common for me. And often I'll have reads I don't comment on because they're on the weaker side but that's probably true for everyone. I'm definitely more on the straightforward side though.

2. 3? I want to play obviously but I wouldn't be very upset D1 mostly because I'm not that invested yet.

This is just curiosity, I'm not suspicious but, would I be right to assume if you're quiet with reads you're likely suspicious of somebody but want more concrete evidence? - Just to be safe for later on in the game

Honestly

if I'm quiet with reads I'm probably just tired or something. If I'm suspicious of somebody and want more evidence I'll likely be questioning them without giving a read on them but I'd still be vocal about other reads.

Remainder of pages 4 and 5:

Homura defence of Blopp reads as town - draws on his personal meta, but surely easier for scum to go with Lucky here than to challenge him. Seems a bit strong for scum distancing, unless they really didn't like each other.

Jam oozing towniness, and the wisdom of having played with BM before. He learnt all those fallacies from me

Onto page 6. I'm probably gonna have to comment on less stuff otherwise I'll never catch up...