Micro 949 | Mask of Monsters | Game Over!

[Katrielle Mask]

Ok. Summarize it in good faith. Explain how caring quite a bit while contributing very little isn't action for the sake of looking active.

Because I would only do something "for the sake of looking active" if I had a vested interest in appearing active but not really being active.

I have not been hugely active; like I said, secret alt games are always going to be like that. It's a pain to log into the alt. What activity I have had has focused on trying to understand what people are doing and how they're thinking. I haven't been focused on finding scum, in part because the alt slips have distracted us from being able to scumhunt, but also because I put a high premium on townhunting rather than scumhunting. I am pretty confident in Kim and Kitsune being town.

As for Kirk, I thought his early-game engagement showed a lack of reservation and an openness that scum would be hesitant to use because it would make connecting their accounts easier (and it's just sometimes hard for scum to fake in general). That engagement waning does of course increase the likelihood that was an act that he's no longer able to maintain, but I still feel good enough about him to not want to touch him right now.

So if we're looking to get some wagons going, I would be fine voting in any of my PoE. I agree that the game ought to be moving a little faster than it is.

Here are the difficulties with this approach:
1. You put a premium on townhunting over scumhunting, but not only is this a borderline fallacious mindset (If you call everyone town in this game, you will be right almost 80% of the time), but you also fail to have townreads that everyone else does not already have as town.

2. Your lynchpool happens to be exactly the number of players that need to be lynched before scum win.

3. Kirk and Kuzco are the only players you can talk about reasons for your reads on, and when you spoke of your Kuzco read you were seated so firmly on the fence that I'm almost certain it's top is imprinted on your rear.

Do you see how you saying this gets us absolutely nowhere, adds nothing, and the only person getting anything out of this is you look slightly better because you wrote quite a few words so it looks like you're more invested?

[Katrielle Mask]

Because I would only do something "for the sake of looking active" if I had a vested interest in appearing active but not really being active.

Additionally, this isn't an argument that you're not scum because you aren't doing the scummy thing I accused you of doing, it's a statement that declares you aren't doing this scummy thing I'm accusing you of doing, because you'd only do it if you were scum. Do you see how you aren't addressing my concerns here, you're simply reinforcing them?

[Kay Mask]

Here are the difficulties with this approach:
1. You put a premium on townhunting over scumhunting, but not only is this a borderline fallacious mindset (If you call everyone town in this game, you will be right almost 80% of the time), but you also fail to have townreads that everyone else does not already have as town.

What are you talking about? If I call everyone town I will be right 0% of the time because it's impossible for everyone to be town. And I don't really see how them being common townreads factored into it. They are still my own. I can explain the rest if you want.

2. Your lynchpool happens to be exactly the number of players that need to be lynched before scum win.

See this is a bad faith argument. It doesn't mean anything unless you set out to come up with reasons why I look scummy and then came across this. Not to mention it isn't even true-- scum need two more incorrect executions to win.

3. Kirk and Kuzco are the only players you can talk about reasons for your reads on, and when you spoke of your Kuzco read you were seated so firmly on the fence that I'm almost certain it's top is imprinted on your rear.

That's, uh, not true? Although I didn't make it clear at the time I did explain later that my Kuzco townread was dependent on Kris being town. That's not fence-sitting.

Do you see how you saying this gets us absolutely nowhere, adds nothing, and the only person getting anything out of this is you look slightly better because you wrote quite a few words so it looks like you're more invested?

Lmao. Because I'm looking so much better out of this exchange.

How, exactly, did you think I was expecting to look better? I know that people hate this stuff. I've been getting shit for it since I joined the site. It does not make me look better, pretty much ever. Can you at least trust that that is true?

[Kay Mask]

Additionally, this isn't an argument that you're not scum because you aren't doing the scummy thing I accused you of doing, it's a statement that declares you aren't doing this scummy thing I'm accusing you of doing, because you'd only do it if you were scum.

Of course. You asked for a good faith explanation, so I gave you the truth. I never said it was the only plausible explanation. Yours is of course PLAUSIBLE, you're just treating it like fact when it's only conjecture.

[Katrielle Mask]

Additionally, this isn't an argument that you're not scum because you aren't doing the scummy thing I accused you of doing, it's a statement that declares you aren't doing this scummy thing I'm accusing you of doing, because you'd only do it if you were scum.

Of course. You asked for a good faith explanation, so I gave you the truth. I never said it was the only plausible explanation. Yours is of course PLAUSIBLE, you're just treating it like fact when it's only conjecture.

You're not responding to my point. I'm honestly not even certain what you think my point is, reading this response, so I'll restate it for you; You're doing this thing that makes you scummy. You're telling me that you aren't doing that thing, because for you to be doing that thing you'd have to be scum. Since you are doing the thing that I said you're doing, you must be scum if your own argument follows.

[Kay Mask]

I'm saying that you don't know I'm doing that, because there's another possible explanation for what I'm doing. But you're assuming I am, and since it is something only scum can do, you're assuming I'm scum, and trying to use that to prove I'm scum.

[Katrielle Mask]

What are you talking about? If I call everyone town I will be right 0% of the time because it's impossible for everyone to be town.

Now

that's

a bad faith argument and not a response to my argument.

And I don't really see how them being common townreads factored into it.

That doesn't change the fact that it factors in quite a lot, actually. In several ways, including the fact that it's difficult for scum to lynch players that are widely townread and they're less likely to be asked to explain reads they have in common with other players.

They are still my own. I can explain the rest if you want.

If they were your own, why didn't you explain them game days ago? Or when I asked you multiple times over the past couple IRL days? Yes, please explain. Please contribute. I don't understand why I have to ask you to participate in something you clearly seem to be interested in?

[Kay Mask]

Like the thing in question is "trying to look active for the sake of looking active." What is your proof that I'm doing that rather than just engaging in the ways in which I prefer?

[Katrielle Mask]

I'm saying that you don't know I'm doing that, because there's another possible explanation for what I'm doing.

I'm saying you are doing that, and I don't have to assume you're doing that, because I've already pointed to several posts of yours that added absolutely NOTHING to the game thread except attempts to get the last word in, and you even conceded that point earlier.

But you're assuming I am, and since it is something only scum can do, you're assuming I'm scum, and trying to use that to prove I'm scum.

Again, I'm not assuming anything. I'm pointing at things you do. There's no assumptions here at all. You ARE making posts that get us nowhere fast. You ARE contributing very little to the game while making posts that convey that you care. I'm not assuming that you do that. When you say "I would only do those things as scum," you are saying "I am scum."

[Katrielle Mask]

Like the thing in question is "trying to look active for the sake of looking active." What is your proof that I'm doing that rather than just engaging in the ways in which I prefer?

The latter is not exclusive to the former. You probably are engaging in ways that you prefer, and you probably prefer to engage in ways that advance the game thread very little. This is a false dichotomy.

[Katrielle Mask]

See this is a bad faith argument. It doesn't mean anything unless you set out to come up with reasons why I look scummy and then came across this. Not to mention it isn't even true-- scum need two more incorrect executions to win.

It isn't a bad faith argument, though, because you've given three reads and explained one of them. You've had the same reads since day one. And your PoE is 3, which most people would agree is larger than 2 (the necessary number of executions, by your account, that scum need to win), so yes, it is true.

[Katrielle Mask]

That's, uh, not true? Although I didn't make it clear at the time I did explain later that my Kuzco townread was dependent on Kris being town. That's not fence-sitting.

The following (your explanation of your read on Kuzco) is remarkably fence-sitty, regardless of what you say.

Spoiler:

What I've seen from Kuzco seems pretty solid, although admittedly it's very little. Pointing out that scum are more likely to use gimmicks is fairly astute and it seemed like he really believed that (of course this changes completely if Kris ends up being scum and it was a bus), and while I wouldn't say 183 was a townslip since I did know that scum was one person and just phrased it badly, I like that he pointed it out.

[Kay Mask]

I townread Kim because she seems to be doing everything in her power to bring the game to a state where it's harder for scum to hide. As in, she's very interactive, she's very animated in her personality and is encouraging others to be the same, her activity hasn't dropped off and she seems interested in making sure the game doesn't die, and she seems to be trying to work with people rather than antagonize or nitpick them.

I townread Kitsune because they have been drawing attention to themself including with the poem thing, and family gimmick, and the baiting of people such as 239 - 242, and the no execute vote. If scum this is nothing short of brazen, and definitely risks accusations of trying to distract the thread and use a weird scum gimmick to avoid being paired with their other account.

[Katrielle Mask]

Lmao. Because I'm looking so much better out of this exchange.

How, exactly, did you think I was expecting to look better? I know that people hate this stuff. I've been getting shit for it since I joined the site. It does not make me look better, pretty much ever. Can you at least trust that that is true?

No, you're not looking better as a player (you have yet to make a cohesive statement) the fact that you're interacting with me like this is making people want to lynch you less, and I am thinking that might be one of the only reasons you continue to interact with me.

[Kay Mask]

Like the thing in question is "trying to look active for the sake of looking active." What is your proof that I'm doing that rather than just engaging in the ways in which I prefer?

The latter is not exclusive to the former. You probably are engaging in ways that you prefer, and you probably prefer to engage in ways that advance the game thread very little. This is a false dichotomy.

You're right; according to your narrow definition of advancing the game, my posts don't do that. But the dichotomy isn't between doing what I like and not advancing the game; it's between specifically trying to pretend as though I'm contributing, versus just doing what I feel like doing (which is assumed to NOT be deceptive in that case). That is a real dichotomy; either I'm intending to be deceptive, or I'm not. You seem to be implying that I am. That's the part I take issue with.

[Kay Mask]

Now that's a bad faith argument and not a response to my argument.

It is a response. You said that if I just called everyone town then I'd be right on 80% of people-- well, of course, that means that calling everyone town is a dumb thing to do and not helpful. It just means that the accuracy rate on townhunting has to be higher than 80% for it to be good townhunting. If I have three townreads and they're all correct, that would be useful, no?

[Kay Mask]

And yes of course I'm interacting with you to make people want to execute me less; that is kind of the point of a defense, no? I'm trying to understand your argument and explain why it isn't accurate.

(Also, I think it's spewing us as not partnered pretty effectively.)

[Kitsune Mask]

UNVOTE:

[Kitsune Mask]

3. Kirk and Kuzco are the only players you can talk about reasons for your reads on, and when you spoke of your Kuzco read you were seated so firmly on the fence that I'm almost certain it's top is imprinted on your rear.

This is an adult web site, you know you are allowed to say "ass" right?

[Kitsune Mask]

I townread Kitsune because they have been drawing attention to themself including with the poem thing, and family gimmick, and the baiting of people such as 239 - 242, and the no execute vote. If scum this is nothing short of brazen, and definitely risks accusations of trying to distract the thread and use a weird scum gimmick to avoid being paired with their other account.

I'm going to go to the veterinarian to find out if I'm a girl fox or a boy fox. Kim will you go with me? I'm nervous.

[Kitsune Mask]

I unvoted Komainu because writing off the game over the slips is relatable. Now Kay can't be yakuza with Katrielle, which means there is less chance either one is wolf overall. It's so hard.

I don't want to vote Kirk because of the time of day thing that Karma made up. But maybe its wrong. Maybe someone can sleep that little.
Hm.

[Karma Mask]

Katri gives me counterwagoning vibes. She is very eager to push inactive slots but when koma outright refused to contribute here, she just ignored it. I didn't even see koma pocketing katri or doing anything that could emotionally influence her to make out-of-character move.
VOTE: komainu

[Kitsune Mask]

I'm going to explain why everyone is town, then someone can tell me I am wrong.

Kirk - either doesn't sleep or doesn't have another account
Katrielle - Fought with Kay and earlier talked to me like she thinks I'm town but not quite like she knows I'm town which is a tricky balance
northsidegal - knows everyone's main but has not yet daykilled everyone
Kay - fought with Katrielle, refused to be in my family even though she knows it will make me hate her
Karma - spellings and sentence structures too different to every other user
Kitsune - has exactly nine tails
Komainu - is upset about altslips the way I am

When I write it out maybe it's Komainu

[Kitsune Mask]

I forgot to list Kim cause that's my other account, I'm not logged into her on Chrome

really does anyone not townread Kim though let's not waste time

[Karma Mask]

Did you know that mother Northy needs 4 minutes to make nine tailed fox but she is able to make me in less then 1 minute.