Newbie 2016: Snapdragons (Game Over)

[Porkens]

Wrong tree BM, just letting you know work on a backup case

I thought, you didn't want to make us think you were town and that you were just here to scum hunt. This post seems like you've changed your mind.

I just want BM to keep an open mind as he reads through the game so that it’s not all wasted tunneling me. He’s got fresh eyes and I want him to be at least considering the idea that LL was town when he did all that crap.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Thirteenth, what would my hanging tell us about the game?

I've been looking at vote counts throughout the game. Jamsv has been the most firm on the LL wagon. Hasn't waivered from their stance. Raya agrees with LL early game on Blopp and then distanced by voting LL as the wagon started turning. Lickety was also pushing hard on LL and dropped a bit after the pr claim. Even with LL backtracking and dropping they have not returned to that wagon. Waiting on them now to further analyze. Meanwhile counterwagon was 72 who agreed with LL. An LL flip would be the strongest indicator of 72 this game. I am almost certain if LL is town than 72 is scum here. Does not work vice versa. Clark on your wagon just now felt extremely oppurtunistic, again more detail coming.

There's so much to learn from your flip.

And I don't want to give 100% away the tell (you can however meta me to find it.) But it's related to one of my (borrowed) rqs question and Clark gave a result with 100% scum rate. Obviously tools like that are just tools so Ive been trying to watch their game independently from it. If they flip scum that tool will be great for future games and if not Clark becomes the exception.

So which is more likely: LL town or 72 scum?

All based on intentions. 72 scum would thus know LL was town and was buddying/counterwagoning. 72 town just plain and simple agrees with LL and they share a similar mindset.

Also LL town would be 72 scum for me. Going after 72 would be less telling as I still wouldn't feel certain on the LL slot.

[Porkens]

Why would 72 counterwagon away from LL if they know LL is town?

[Battle Mage]

Blopp (2): LuckyLuciano, 72offsuit

Also, this pretty much implicates 72 as well given 72 was the person who said LL tries to end the day early/doesn't like long days which I have proven that 72 knows this is not necessarily true.

Or you're setting up 72 as a mislynch tomorrow when you've bussed Lucky-scum?

My reasons for NOT voting LL have diminished, so I would totally go back there. But let's see how people react to what happened before I get ahead of myself.

Appealing to the people, yuck.

Here's the claim and follow-up:

If I'm not mistaking, that's 4 votes. I have a TPR. Let's move on.

I'm not going to argue with you. Random nonsensical 1v1s are what you masturbate to. If the rest of the players in the game agree on eliminating a claimed TPR D1, so be it.

I'm not masons with 72o. I am not giving any more info about my role claim just to help mafia solve the setup. My slots self-resolves at this point. Either it becomes blatantly obvious I'm lying as the game goes on, or I'm telling the truth.

As TTJT can attest, I'm the last person to advocate for Lynch all Liars (unlike 72o - to note). However, when town lies, they have to have a good reason. Preferably one which is somewhat defensible. Above, it seems like the only motive for Lucky fakeclaiming TPR is to avoid being executed. In doing so, he noted himself earlier in the game that this would potentially out the real town PRs and would be a consolation prize for scum on the ropes. No likey no lighty so far.

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage replaces Blopp.

See this is an issue now, I don't like playing with Battle Mage, I feel like he's too important as asset for town as scum and town, which is just a huge pain.

is that a compliment? <3

I don't want to scare you, but I'm on a rich vein of scumhunting form at the moment!

well i fricking jinxed it here, didn't I Jam?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Why would 72 counterwagon away from LL if they know LL is town?

To not be associated with elimnating a member of the town day 1. Thought this was common scum tactics? Plus there was no need with 4 votes and hammering would have been a bad idea.

Again this is all under the assumption LL was town. The only one that really knows the truth is you on that slot. Well LL too.

[Porkens]

It just boggles my mind that LL ended up claiming based on a scumread of three posts.

[Battle Mage]

TheThirteenthJT - are you town too? who is scum here?

If not you than it's Clark and/or Raya. For Clark look at rqs and you will see why, for Raya I have a case. Homura would be most likely partner for Raya. Quick summary of my cases. Not home yet.

That's helpful thanks dude, I've got one of those.

Amusingly, the one I had was Clark pre-re-read!

Hi BM!

Again I want to say how sorry I am for letting myself almost get replaced. I was whiny in the beginning of the game about the slow place, and so of course it would be me to then contribute to the problem. I work on weekends, and with the holiday and some other life stuff I got completely wrecked. I do virtually nothing during the week, so my posting will be a lot more consistent.

I'll say this regarding much of what I've read in the last few pages: I am not going to go read a past game to see how players behaved in it. I have said (and still believe) that behavior/activity levels being different in one game to another is something I think is noteworthy and could be AI. So I'm not dismissing that as a reasonable motive to vote for somebody. But, unless something very clear is brought to my attention then I don't think I'm going to hop on a wagon because of meta.

I don't have a problem with LL's reasoning for voting Blopp even if it is kind of a reach. I can follow the reasoning and don't necessarily disagree. I do fear quick hammers, but that fear shouldn't stop a player from having some L-1 pressure. I also buy LL's claim for now. I feel uncomfortable giving town-reads, but LL is a town lean for me.

My vote on Homura stands and I guess we'll see if there is a replacement or if Homura returns. Obviously I can't point any fingers regarding activity levels, but it's the lack of trying to engage other players in a meaningful way that bothers me. Half-heartedly sharing opinions and having only one vote that was in the RVS and not even a random reason given bugs me.

I'll keep looking at stuff and see if I can't get some questions goings. I'm also happy to answer any questions, in fact that might help me in figuring out my own feelings on some things.

So you believe LLs claim but he is only a town lean?

And I agree on your Homura point but it's not strong enough for it to be my leading case. Could you ISo Raya and let me know how you feel about them.

This is a for fun question and part of my experimental ways of playing.(I know we are out of rqs and wifom and not aftual scumhunting blah blah blah. Just let me be me.) If you were town who is your scum team at this point, and if you were mafia who would your partner be? Please answer both sides and just have fun with the answers. I don't have any day to back anything up but I have theories so this will help me improve as a player. Anyone else is free to answer this as well.

I can't remember if I answered this already.

My balls to the wall pick would be Quick-Pork. Although could see Raya in there. Definitely 1-2 scum in that trio.

I'd take Clark as my buddy to guarantee his first win as scum, and also so you could be right about me and Clark being scum.

[Battle Mage]

I went back to analyze the Blopp flake and it's so bizarre. I can see newbie players leaving for a bit and returning to see 4 votes on then as a bit overwhelming but I felt the pressure up to the point they removed their avatar was not that high. I've seen (and done so myself) people drilled early game as newbies which would cause enough frustration for a rage quit. This early wagon was rather tame. But at the same time why return at all to remove your avatar? Clearly no intention of returning and thus rage quit possibility over just not returning/forgetting about the site.

So here's the final scenario I have in my head. Blopp comes back because they remember they are in a mafia game, see 4 votes on them, says screw this, removes avatar and leaves forever.

Ok but this same reaction can come from town too.. It's not scum indicative.. It's NAI

And thus why I didn't join the Blopp wagon. I was giving the benefit of the doubt but at the same time understanding why someone would push it. I felt I had bigger fish to fry over the Blopp and Luciano case and had said I wouldn't really weigh in and focus elsewhere until a replacement came in.

Similarly now that BM has replaced in I want to see were Luciano goes from there.

My guess is scum are not particularly enamoured with me coming into this slot

Players who push the game forward and generate AI content don't die D1.

Spoiler: Nothing like a good old fashioned meme for this occasion

Is my point getting across? Is LL Town because of their claim? Honest question.

I have a TPR. Let's move on.

Why should I believe you wouldn't say this as Scum?

an honest question huh?

[LicketyQuickety]

I think I will just lay about and not do much till F3 when I can hammer BM if that's okay with everyone.

[Battle Mage]

By the way, does anybody think with good odds LL is a mason? If not then we can narrow down the game a bunch.

I gave my mason solve for LL already. If not with 72 I think it's a fools errand to try and speculate more than that.

I more meant with good odds, ie, do you think its actually likely?

Not unless LL is lying about being masons with 72. I don't know how I feel about LL/72 as masons, but that is why I think 72 is actually Scummier than LL.

This fits nicely with my LL-LQ solve.

Battle Mage replaces Blopp.

This is what we needed!

Sarcastic?

214 Well you have BM in that slot now, so good fucking luck not getting information out of that guy.

LOL

Page 17 - nearly up to speed, think I will finish off tomorrow.

[ClarkBar]

I'd take Clark as my buddy to guarantee his first win as scum, and also so you could be right about me and Clark being scum.

to guarantee his first win as scum

to guarantee his first win

his first win

(Again something is off for me with Clark's vote )

Is it that I was leaning town on LL and now am pushing for the slot to be executed? Do you think my reasoning is weak? I'm happy to talk about this, so if something is troubling you don't be shy.

In general, if you think that I'm wrong on the Pork slot or that I'm not taking things into account that I should be please let me know. I just really believe pork is the right kill.

[ClarkBar]

Page 17 - nearly up to speed, think I will finish off tomorrow.

But you're so close...

[Battle Mage]

I think I will just lay about and not do much till F3 when I can hammer BM if that's okay with everyone.

Not to endorse that approach, but statistically town has a 100% winrate in games where I get mis-executed.

Not sure you'll be around long enough to pull that trigger though?

[LicketyQuickety]

This fits nicely with my LL-LQ solve.

Just what kind of backwards ass country do you come from where w/w play like this?

[Battle Mage]

Page 17 - nearly up to speed, think I will finish off tomorrow.

But you're so close...

It's midnight dude, i need some dinner

[TheThirteenthJT]

I'd take Clark as my buddy to guarantee his first win as scum, and also so you could be right about me and Clark being scum.

to guarantee his first win as scum

to guarantee his first win

his first win

(Again something is off for me with Clark's vote )

Is it that I was leaning town on LL and now am pushing for the slot to be executed? Do you think my reasoning is weak? I'm happy to talk about this, so if something is troubling you don't be shy.

In general, if you think that I'm wrong on the Pork slot or that I'm not taking things into account that I should be please let me know. I just really believe pork is the right kill.

I'm going through your ISO currently. But a quick summary of what I'm seeing. It is based on your stance of LL/Porkens as well as your stance on replacement players. You defend LL hard and slowly worked your way to turning on them. But you teased a vote multiple times and it wasn't until you realized you weren't the hammer that you finally jumped on the wagon. Basically it comes down that you wanted any reason to join the wagon but we're too afraid to hammer so shied away.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Page 17 - nearly up to speed, think I will finish off tomorrow.

But you're so close...

It's midnight dude, i need some dinner

Midnight .... Dinner.... I miss those days. 3 am second dinners too.

[Battle Mage]

This fits nicely with my LL-LQ solve.

Just what kind of backwards ass country do you come from where w/w play like this?

what's your point?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Post 456 is by far the biggest red flag for me. I feel that up to this point Clark was attempting to slowly turn on LL but this posts felt like such a jump it felt forced. Their attitude towards that slot changed from then on.

[LicketyQuickety]

331 P14
452 P19

I do not believe BW was ignorant of recent events. I know pretty much zero players who don't keep up with the new stuff in their catching up. It's going to be a hard sell to get me off BM, but he's counting on lynching me anyways, so we'll see.

[Battle Mage]

I'd take Clark as my buddy to guarantee his first win as scum, and also so you could be right about me and Clark being scum.

to guarantee his first win as scum

to guarantee his first win

his first win

I'm crying! Don't blame me, I said to eliminate Mikul on Day 1!!

[LicketyQuickety]

This fits nicely with my LL-LQ solve.

Just what kind of backwards ass country do you come from where w/w play like this?

what's your point?

[ClarkBar]

I'm going through your ISO currently. But a quick summary of what I'm seeing. It is based on your stance of LL/Porkens as well as your stance on replacement players. You defend LL hard and slowly worked your way to turning on them. But you teased a vote multiple times and it wasn't until you realized you weren't the hammer that you finally jumped on the wagon. Basically it comes down that you wanted any reason to join the wagon but we're too afraid to hammer so shied away.

Yes, my opinion of LL did change, even after the claim. But several opinions of mine changed while rereading for 465 and if more clarity on my thought process is needed I'm happy to oblige.

Did I defend LL hard? I just didn't mind his push on Blopp and thought the ART was not as reachy as some were implying. I turned on him pretty fast actually. What's my stance on replacement players and why is it bad?

And I will tell you, I was excited to be the hammer. I've never done it before, I was going to post a M.C. Hammer "hammer time" gif and everything. But we had people like Looker and BM who were still catching up/giving reactions and so I was being patient. And then it turned out my vote math was wrong. If somebody claims intent I would actually request they let me unvote, then they put Pork at L-1 so I can then hammer.

[LicketyQuickety]

This fits nicely with my LL-LQ solve.

Just what kind of backwards ass country do you come from where w/w play like this?

what's your point?

Mistake.

You ARE keeping up with current events. Not sure how you can wiggle out of your LL/LQ solve now.