Newbie 2016: Snapdragons (Game Over)

[Porkens]

Town wants me to claim so I did.

[Battle Mage]

I'm kind of in a melancholy funk, sorry if I seem quiet.

I guess my issue with Quick/LL is that I have to take into account that those two players may really dislike each other. The history between them may have played a large part in Quick's attitude towards LL, and when the player was replaced that led to a change in attitude towards the slot. I think LL meta was even the original reason Quick had for voting him.

I'm not discounting this scum team, I just don't love it. I want Porkens first.

I'm all for giving replacements a chance, but the alignment of the slot doesn't change. Quick should know that too, and he hasn't justified his most recent transition from scumreading to neutral. Let alone his transition from scumreading to...eh, just unvoting his prime target and then forgetting to revote. I'm beyond confident they are the team - you should love it. The fact they dislike each other is not relevant to this.

If you promise me you'll flip him tomorrow I'll join Pork today.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Clark unvote.

I knew the day would reach this point. At this point Porkens turn is the most valuable thing for the town in my mind as any chance for a PR is now gone from this slot.

Anyone have any final thoughts especially Porkens for Day 1?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Towniest
TheThirteenthJT
JamSV
Raya36
72offsuit
ClarkBar
Looker
Lickety Quickety
Porkens
Scummiest

Convinced the scumpair is Lickety Quickety and Porkens. Reads subject to change depending on flips, but that's where I am now.

Grateful if, before going to night, people can give comments on Quick, in particular his progression on LL which I highlighted in post 789 (noting that now he claims LL is null).

You are so full of it BM Your entire catchup is spewing noise, and you should be hanged tomorrow when I flip town.

I’m the most dangerous role to scum in this setup.
Vanilla Town.

VOTE: Battlemage

Once again, you said you wouldn't bother defending yourself. Claiming is worthless. You came in boisterously, saying you won't defend yourself and will only scum hunt. You've realised, that you don't have a play to get out of this as scum, that you'll get hung, and are using a last ditch effort to save yourself.

This is bad, Porkens has been asked to claim multiple times now and it was all some of us were waiting for.

[JamSV]

Towniest
TheThirteenthJT
JamSV
Raya36
72offsuit
ClarkBar
Looker
Lickety Quickety
Porkens
Scummiest

Convinced the scumpair is Lickety Quickety and Porkens. Reads subject to change depending on flips, but that's where I am now.

Grateful if, before going to night, people can give comments on Quick, in particular his progression on LL which I highlighted in post 789 (noting that now he claims LL is null).

You are so full of it BM Your entire catchup is spewing noise, and you should be hanged tomorrow when I flip town.

I’m the most dangerous role to scum in this setup.
Vanilla Town.

VOTE: Battlemage

Once again, you said you wouldn't bother defending yourself. Claiming is worthless. You came in boisterously, saying you won't defend yourself and will only scum hunt. You've realised, that you don't have a play to get out of this as scum, that you'll get hung, and are using a last ditch effort to save yourself.

This is bad, Porkens has been asked to claim multiple times now and it was all some of us were waiting for.

We never needed a claim, we got everything we needed from Lucky.

[Porkens]

Spoiler:

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

Where's your vote then?

My vote is "on" Blopp I just don't want him at L-1

Perhaps it is a coincidence, but since being wagoned, Blopp has removed their profile pic. That means they have been onsite and decided not to post. So now we have her ignoring the initial wagon that I started with 72o, despite posting after it began and ignoring my case. In addition, we have her logging on to remove her profile pic and still not posting. Feels a lot like giving up to me.

This is a bad case and very reachy.

Also can you all look back at my two questions (rqs) I asked. I really want to know the answer for the first one.

I'll do this in my next post.

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

"I scumlean Lucky for possibly wanting a quick hammer on my other scumlean."

For the record, I'm expecting Blopp not to post again until the slot is replaced, and if the slot claims VT I will be pushing for the slot to be eliminated.

Just because I scumlean him doesnt mean I'm right (I never take associations into account D1. I often have multiple scumread that don't work together). And its perfectly viable to be concerned about someone not removing their vote at L-1 when Blopp hasn't even talked yet.

Actually since I can't vote Blopp right now VOTE: Lucky. I think this is more likely anyway. Your stats case also was reachy and the whole basis of your scumread isn't concrete. I would accept your case if and only if it was supporting evidence of a much stronger and more viable case.

Isn't most Day 1 early cases reachy? I really hate this argument
Also I see you join The Luciano wagon after I printed you to vote and someone else joined before you. I don't like this. I could argue myself that your case on him is reachy but again my case is reachy here no? Finally your case is more repreat what was already aid to give you a reason to join the wagon. While not Al we always scum indicative it's a good start.

Once I catch up my read here I will chiose where my vote goes but you are definitely setting off alarms.

I broadly agree with this take.

So I'm not super into this game yet so I'm gonna make a readslist to orient myself.

Town:

JamSV - Town, tonal/reasoning, 56 was bad town play imo. Scum wouldn't be so obvious if this was an attempt at a quick hammer though I think.

ClarkBar - I think Clark is overeager town on a reread. This is consistent with their RVS play. I no longer find defending Blopp to be scummy since the eagerness is consistent. His responses to my questioning about this sounds genuine too.

Homura - Townlean, I like the stance taken on Lucky and it's very similar thoughts to my own.

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Null:

LicketyQuickety - Null, need to hear more.

72offsuit - Null. I actually scumread RQS a bit (but very weakly), I don't find it works or does any good and responses tend to lead only to unrelated debate. It muddies the thread. Also why start RQS then refuse to answer and say it won't help find alignment? What is your read on Lucky?

Blopp - Scumlean/null for lack of content. I want to hear from her or a replacement.

Scum:

LuckyLuciano - Scum, didn't remove vote at L-1, reachy case on Blopp (had a greeting in their first post, LAMIST post (23) but I heavily disagree. How is 23 any different than the RQS questions and how could she be using it to try to look town or helpful?, saying that they came online to remove their profile pic but didn't post so must be given up scum). It seems like he's trying to make a case out of nothing. It also seems like he's trying to set up a lynch to for sure be Blopp (stating that if he gets replaced and they claim VT he'll push for their lynch, not seeming particularly interested in hearing from the replacement). It's always best to hear from the replacement of a sus player. I don't like the statistics analysis too. Usually when I see stuff like this I take it as busy work. It's not a strong case, there's lots of variables, it muddied up the thread and made the game less readable for me at least. A question for you Lucky, why can't newbtown get frustrated and quit when a wagon is formed on them? Why must Blopp be scum for this?

A good readslist. Smart town or informed scum? Only 1 scumread though, and largest wagon at this point, so not going out on much of a limb. Although she hasn't given herself much room for manoerve either. Gut feeling still Raya-scum, has felt awkwardly out of step with rest of the play to this point.

@JamSV, why did you put Blopp at L-1 and proceed to tell players to feel free to hammer and state that you see quickhammers as NAI?

A quickhammer can be seen as NAI as it could just be a really bad misunderstanding leading to a bad play. Which is why I believe a quickhammer without an explanation is scum indicative, but one with (on its own) is NAI.

I put him on L-1 to see how he would react. Nobody would express intent to hammer so my proceeding post was to in force that a extra bit of pressure. I have faith nobody would come in and swoop to quick hammer, considering we had all already posted (excluding Echovision), and we could all easily see how close he is to getting hammered. I will admit, I really didn't expect him to "leave" if we can class that as what he is doing. Plus that type of play is good for moving more out of the RVS, and it can apply simple pressure to see just how easily somebody would actually fold.

- If you were wondering if I have a bit too much faith in people, I probably do.

Quick hammers are a difficult subject to assess. In my first game I delivered a naked quickhammer as town. I was a town mason and we had our reasons for it. In the end all quickhammers have reasons even if not explained and do follow an agenda so they are touchy subjects for me. No we maybe a quickhammers earlier in the day umpromted may be a case for scum but have not encountered that situation yet. Most come towards the end of the day phase.

Now I do find it interesting you placed Blopp at e-1 and didn't really get called out much for it. Instead Raya unvoted and Luciano got scumleaned for not doing do as well. I don't believe you had I'll intentions and neither did Luciano. Raya comes away again as most suspicious and a bit LAMIST for his unvote.

That's a very good point about Raya not calling out Jam - I missed that one! Would Raya have been tunnelling her partner this early? Although a scumlean is only a warning shot I guess...

And you're preaching to the converted on quickhammers!

You can take a look at my meta if you want 72. 4 townleans/reads early game is not unusual for me. multiple scumleans isn't either. And I'm sure you can find reads similar to my read on Homura too.

You're not scumread because my RQS statement is very weak and can only be used as a statement to back up a stronger case.

Don't like this in isolation, and had a similar comment towards Lucky earlier. Comes across as if the cases would be artificial rather than legitimate (i'll only commit to a scumread once I think my case will stand up to scrutiny). Unlikely Raya-72 scumpair?

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Yes partially. I was also suggesting that scum are the only ones that truly know everyone's alignment. So Clark is an interesting read for me and would like to expand on this later. He actually failed a test earlier and it looks bad for him but his play has indicated town for me. I will be keeping a good look at him throughout the game but it's currently Not enough for me to keep my vote on him currently.

So after my reread my vote will most comfortably be here

UNVOTE: clark
VOTE: raya36

I'm interested in what this failed test is

me too. Hey TTJT - what was the test?

Read that post from the lens of a reya misshang

[JamSV]

Does one logically think, and somehow come to the conclusion, that Lucky as a PR would claim to be a PR, and unclaim TPR? Given that, do you really think Porkens would have claimed anything other than VT? It was a last ditch effort to save herself because "we" wanted claims. Basic logic can tell you she'd claim VT I don't know why on earth any of you wanted it.

[Battle Mage]

Towniest
TheThirteenthJT
JamSV
Raya36
72offsuit
ClarkBar
Looker
Lickety Quickety
Porkens
Scummiest

Convinced the scumpair is Lickety Quickety and Porkens. Reads subject to change depending on flips, but that's where I am now.

Grateful if, before going to night, people can give comments on Quick, in particular his progression on LL which I highlighted in post 789 (noting that now he claims LL is null).

You are so full of it BM Your entire catchup is spewing noise, and you should be hanged tomorrow when I flip town.

I’m the most dangerous role to scum in this setup.
Vanilla Town.

VOTE: Battlemage

You mean my commentary on the game was less useful than your pages of random pointless questions which never went anywhere?

I'm sure I'm getting NKed tonight when you flip scum anyway, but they'll lynch your obvscum buddy Quick tomorrow thanks to me!

[TheThirteenthJT]

Towniest
TheThirteenthJT
JamSV
Raya36
72offsuit
ClarkBar
Looker
Lickety Quickety
Porkens
Scummiest

Convinced the scumpair is Lickety Quickety and Porkens. Reads subject to change depending on flips, but that's where I am now.

Grateful if, before going to night, people can give comments on Quick, in particular his progression on LL which I highlighted in post 789 (noting that now he claims LL is null).

You are so full of it BM Your entire catchup is spewing noise, and you should be hanged tomorrow when I flip town.

I’m the most dangerous role to scum in this setup.
Vanilla Town.

VOTE: Battlemage

Once again, you said you wouldn't bother defending yourself. Claiming is worthless. You came in boisterously, saying you won't defend yourself and will only scum hunt. You've realised, that you don't have a play to get out of this as scum, that you'll get hung, and are using a last ditch effort to save yourself.

This is bad, Porkens has been asked to claim multiple times now and it was all some of us were waiting for.

We never needed a claim, we got everything we needed from Lucky.

I was still hanging to a possibility of a PR from that slot. The way LL left Meade me feel that they wanted to leave a neutral point for their replacement. As scummy as it was the doubt lingered u til now. Eepecially with Porkens refusing to claim u til just now

[Porkens]

El Town:
JamSV replaced individual
ClarkBar
LicketyQuickety (SE) replaced EchoVision
Raya36 (SE)
Porkens (SE) replaced LuckyLuciano

Scum are in:
Looker replaced Homura
72offsuit

Battle Mage replaced Blopp
TheThirteenthJT

Top list hangs the bottom list. Start with the bold.

[Battle Mage]

Does one logically think, and somehow come to the conclusion, that Lucky as a PR would claim to be a PR, and unclaim TPR? Given that, do you really think Porkens would have claimed anything other than VT? It was a last ditch effort to save herself because "we" wanted claims. Basic logic can tell you she'd claim VT I don't know why on earth any of you wanted it.

Strictly speaking, for those keeping score at home, Porkens has retracted his own retraction of LL's retraction of his original fakeclaim (as Porkens implied he actually was a PR after all earlier in the day).

[JamSV]

Towniest
TheThirteenthJT
JamSV
Raya36
72offsuit
ClarkBar
Looker
Lickety Quickety
Porkens
Scummiest

Convinced the scumpair is Lickety Quickety and Porkens. Reads subject to change depending on flips, but that's where I am now.

Grateful if, before going to night, people can give comments on Quick, in particular his progression on LL which I highlighted in post 789 (noting that now he claims LL is null).

You are so full of it BM Your entire catchup is spewing noise, and you should be hanged tomorrow when I flip town.

I’m the most dangerous role to scum in this setup.
Vanilla Town.

VOTE: Battlemage

Once again, you said you wouldn't bother defending yourself. Claiming is worthless. You came in boisterously, saying you won't defend yourself and will only scum hunt. You've realised, that you don't have a play to get out of this as scum, that you'll get hung, and are using a last ditch effort to save yourself.

This is bad, Porkens has been asked to claim multiple times now and it was all some of us were waiting for.

We never needed a claim, we got everything we needed from Lucky.

I was still hanging to a possibility of a PR from that slot. The way LL left Meade me feel that they wanted to leave a neutral point for their replacement. As scummy as it was the doubt lingered u til now. Eepecially with Porkens refusing to claim u til just now

Refer to 831.

[Porkens]

The desperation for this lynch to go through is palpable. Remember this page.

[JamSV]

The desperation for this lynch to go through is palpable. Remember this page.

Maybe next game, don't start off with exclaiming you like memegambits and lolhammers, which only seek to harm town, you'd get at least a bit of benefit of the doubt due to being a replacement that way.

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

Where's your vote then?

My vote is "on" Blopp I just don't want him at L-1

Perhaps it is a coincidence, but since being wagoned, Blopp has removed their profile pic. That means they have been onsite and decided not to post. So now we have her ignoring the initial wagon that I started with 72o, despite posting after it began and ignoring my case. In addition, we have her logging on to remove her profile pic and still not posting. Feels a lot like giving up to me.

This is a bad case and very reachy.

Also can you all look back at my two questions (rqs) I asked. I really want to know the answer for the first one.

I'll do this in my next post.

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

"I scumlean Lucky for possibly wanting a quick hammer on my other scumlean."

For the record, I'm expecting Blopp not to post again until the slot is replaced, and if the slot claims VT I will be pushing for the slot to be eliminated.

Just because I scumlean him doesnt mean I'm right (I never take associations into account D1. I often have multiple scumread that don't work together). And its perfectly viable to be concerned about someone not removing their vote at L-1 when Blopp hasn't even talked yet.

Actually since I can't vote Blopp right now VOTE: Lucky. I think this is more likely anyway. Your stats case also was reachy and the whole basis of your scumread isn't concrete. I would accept your case if and only if it was supporting evidence of a much stronger and more viable case.

Isn't most Day 1 early cases reachy? I really hate this argument
Also I see you join The Luciano wagon after I printed you to vote and someone else joined before you. I don't like this. I could argue myself that your case on him is reachy but again my case is reachy here no? Finally your case is more repreat what was already aid to give you a reason to join the wagon. While not Al we always scum indicative it's a good start.

Once I catch up my read here I will chiose where my vote goes but you are definitely setting off alarms.

I broadly agree with this take.

So I'm not super into this game yet so I'm gonna make a readslist to orient myself.

Town:

JamSV - Town, tonal/reasoning, 56 was bad town play imo. Scum wouldn't be so obvious if this was an attempt at a quick hammer though I think.

ClarkBar - I think Clark is overeager town on a reread. This is consistent with their RVS play. I no longer find defending Blopp to be scummy since the eagerness is consistent. His responses to my questioning about this sounds genuine too.

Homura - Townlean, I like the stance taken on Lucky and it's very similar thoughts to my own.

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Null:

LicketyQuickety - Null, need to hear more.

72offsuit - Null. I actually scumread RQS a bit (but very weakly), I don't find it works or does any good and responses tend to lead only to unrelated debate. It muddies the thread. Also why start RQS then refuse to answer and say it won't help find alignment? What is your read on Lucky?

Blopp - Scumlean/null for lack of content. I want to hear from her or a replacement.

Scum:

LuckyLuciano - Scum, didn't remove vote at L-1, reachy case on Blopp (had a greeting in their first post, LAMIST post (23) but I heavily disagree. How is 23 any different than the RQS questions and how could she be using it to try to look town or helpful?, saying that they came online to remove their profile pic but didn't post so must be given up scum). It seems like he's trying to make a case out of nothing. It also seems like he's trying to set up a lynch to for sure be Blopp (stating that if he gets replaced and they claim VT he'll push for their lynch, not seeming particularly interested in hearing from the replacement). It's always best to hear from the replacement of a sus player. I don't like the statistics analysis too. Usually when I see stuff like this I take it as busy work. It's not a strong case, there's lots of variables, it muddied up the thread and made the game less readable for me at least. A question for you Lucky, why can't newbtown get frustrated and quit when a wagon is formed on them? Why must Blopp be scum for this?

A good readslist. Smart town or informed scum? Only 1 scumread though, and largest wagon at this point, so not going out on much of a limb. Although she hasn't given herself much room for manoerve either. Gut feeling still Raya-scum, has felt awkwardly out of step with rest of the play to this point.

@JamSV, why did you put Blopp at L-1 and proceed to tell players to feel free to hammer and state that you see quickhammers as NAI?

A quickhammer can be seen as NAI as it could just be a really bad misunderstanding leading to a bad play. Which is why I believe a quickhammer without an explanation is scum indicative, but one with (on its own) is NAI.

I put him on L-1 to see how he would react. Nobody would express intent to hammer so my proceeding post was to in force that a extra bit of pressure. I have faith nobody would come in and swoop to quick hammer, considering we had all already posted (excluding Echovision), and we could all easily see how close he is to getting hammered. I will admit, I really didn't expect him to "leave" if we can class that as what he is doing. Plus that type of play is good for moving more out of the RVS, and it can apply simple pressure to see just how easily somebody would actually fold.

- If you were wondering if I have a bit too much faith in people, I probably do.

Quick hammers are a difficult subject to assess. In my first game I delivered a naked quickhammer as town. I was a town mason and we had our reasons for it. In the end all quickhammers have reasons even if not explained and do follow an agenda so they are touchy subjects for me. No we maybe a quickhammers earlier in the day umpromted may be a case for scum but have not encountered that situation yet. Most come towards the end of the day phase.

Now I do find it interesting you placed Blopp at e-1 and didn't really get called out much for it. Instead Raya unvoted and Luciano got scumleaned for not doing do as well. I don't believe you had I'll intentions and neither did Luciano. Raya comes away again as most suspicious and a bit LAMIST for his unvote.

That's a very good point about Raya not calling out Jam - I missed that one! Would Raya have been tunnelling her partner this early? Although a scumlean is only a warning shot I guess...

And you're preaching to the converted on quickhammers!

You can take a look at my meta if you want 72. 4 townleans/reads early game is not unusual for me. multiple scumleans isn't either. And I'm sure you can find reads similar to my read on Homura too.

You're not scumread because my RQS statement is very weak and can only be used as a statement to back up a stronger case.

Don't like this in isolation, and had a similar comment towards Lucky earlier. Comes across as if the cases would be artificial rather than legitimate (i'll only commit to a scumread once I think my case will stand up to scrutiny). Unlikely Raya-72 scumpair?

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Yes partially. I was also suggesting that scum are the only ones that truly know everyone's alignment. So Clark is an interesting read for me and would like to expand on this later. He actually failed a test earlier and it looks bad for him but his play has indicated town for me. I will be keeping a good look at him throughout the game but it's currently Not enough for me to keep my vote on him currently.

So after my reread my vote will most comfortably be here

UNVOTE: clark
VOTE: raya36

I'm interested in what this failed test is

me too. Hey TTJT - what was the test?

Read that post from the lens of a reya misshang

One of the great benefits of me posting lots and being open about my reads is you can basically pick any lens and frame it so I look like scum depending on flips. Opportunistic scum to the end.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Spoiler:

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

Where's your vote then?

My vote is "on" Blopp I just don't want him at L-1

Perhaps it is a coincidence, but since being wagoned, Blopp has removed their profile pic. That means they have been onsite and decided not to post. So now we have her ignoring the initial wagon that I started with 72o, despite posting after it began and ignoring my case. In addition, we have her logging on to remove her profile pic and still not posting. Feels a lot like giving up to me.

This is a bad case and very reachy.

Also can you all look back at my two questions (rqs) I asked. I really want to know the answer for the first one.

I'll do this in my next post.

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

"I scumlean Lucky for possibly wanting a quick hammer on my other scumlean."

For the record, I'm expecting Blopp not to post again until the slot is replaced, and if the slot claims VT I will be pushing for the slot to be eliminated.

Just because I scumlean him doesnt mean I'm right (I never take associations into account D1. I often have multiple scumread that don't work together). And its perfectly viable to be concerned about someone not removing their vote at L-1 when Blopp hasn't even talked yet.

Actually since I can't vote Blopp right now VOTE: Lucky. I think this is more likely anyway. Your stats case also was reachy and the whole basis of your scumread isn't concrete. I would accept your case if and only if it was supporting evidence of a much stronger and more viable case.

Isn't most Day 1 early cases reachy? I really hate this argument
Also I see you join The Luciano wagon after I printed you to vote and someone else joined before you. I don't like this. I could argue myself that your case on him is reachy but again my case is reachy here no? Finally your case is more repreat what was already aid to give you a reason to join the wagon. While not Al we always scum indicative it's a good start.

Once I catch up my read here I will chiose where my vote goes but you are definitely setting off alarms.

I broadly agree with this take.

So I'm not super into this game yet so I'm gonna make a readslist to orient myself.

Town:

JamSV - Town, tonal/reasoning, 56 was bad town play imo. Scum wouldn't be so obvious if this was an attempt at a quick hammer though I think.

ClarkBar - I think Clark is overeager town on a reread. This is consistent with their RVS play. I no longer find defending Blopp to be scummy since the eagerness is consistent. His responses to my questioning about this sounds genuine too.

Homura - Townlean, I like the stance taken on Lucky and it's very similar thoughts to my own.

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Null:

LicketyQuickety - Null, need to hear more.

72offsuit - Null. I actually scumread RQS a bit (but very weakly), I don't find it works or does any good and responses tend to lead only to unrelated debate. It muddies the thread. Also why start RQS then refuse to answer and say it won't help find alignment? What is your read on Lucky?

Blopp - Scumlean/null for lack of content. I want to hear from her or a replacement.

Scum:

LuckyLuciano - Scum, didn't remove vote at L-1, reachy case on Blopp (had a greeting in their first post, LAMIST post (23) but I heavily disagree. How is 23 any different than the RQS questions and how could she be using it to try to look town or helpful?, saying that they came online to remove their profile pic but didn't post so must be given up scum). It seems like he's trying to make a case out of nothing. It also seems like he's trying to set up a lynch to for sure be Blopp (stating that if he gets replaced and they claim VT he'll push for their lynch, not seeming particularly interested in hearing from the replacement). It's always best to hear from the replacement of a sus player. I don't like the statistics analysis too. Usually when I see stuff like this I take it as busy work. It's not a strong case, there's lots of variables, it muddied up the thread and made the game less readable for me at least. A question for you Lucky, why can't newbtown get frustrated and quit when a wagon is formed on them? Why must Blopp be scum for this?

A good readslist. Smart town or informed scum? Only 1 scumread though, and largest wagon at this point, so not going out on much of a limb. Although she hasn't given herself much room for manoerve either. Gut feeling still Raya-scum, has felt awkwardly out of step with rest of the play to this point.

@JamSV, why did you put Blopp at L-1 and proceed to tell players to feel free to hammer and state that you see quickhammers as NAI?

A quickhammer can be seen as NAI as it could just be a really bad misunderstanding leading to a bad play. Which is why I believe a quickhammer without an explanation is scum indicative, but one with (on its own) is NAI.

I put him on L-1 to see how he would react. Nobody would express intent to hammer so my proceeding post was to in force that a extra bit of pressure. I have faith nobody would come in and swoop to quick hammer, considering we had all already posted (excluding Echovision), and we could all easily see how close he is to getting hammered. I will admit, I really didn't expect him to "leave" if we can class that as what he is doing. Plus that type of play is good for moving more out of the RVS, and it can apply simple pressure to see just how easily somebody would actually fold.

- If you were wondering if I have a bit too much faith in people, I probably do.

Quick hammers are a difficult subject to assess. In my first game I delivered a naked quickhammer as town. I was a town mason and we had our reasons for it. In the end all quickhammers have reasons even if not explained and do follow an agenda so they are touchy subjects for me. No we maybe a quickhammers earlier in the day umpromted may be a case for scum but have not encountered that situation yet. Most come towards the end of the day phase.

Now I do find it interesting you placed Blopp at e-1 and didn't really get called out much for it. Instead Raya unvoted and Luciano got scumleaned for not doing do as well. I don't believe you had I'll intentions and neither did Luciano. Raya comes away again as most suspicious and a bit LAMIST for his unvote.

That's a very good point about Raya not calling out Jam - I missed that one! Would Raya have been tunnelling her partner this early? Although a scumlean is only a warning shot I guess...

And you're preaching to the converted on quickhammers!

You can take a look at my meta if you want 72. 4 townleans/reads early game is not unusual for me. multiple scumleans isn't either. And I'm sure you can find reads similar to my read on Homura too.

You're not scumread because my RQS statement is very weak and can only be used as a statement to back up a stronger case.

Don't like this in isolation, and had a similar comment towards Lucky earlier. Comes across as if the cases would be artificial rather than legitimate (i'll only commit to a scumread once I think my case will stand up to scrutiny). Unlikely Raya-72 scumpair?

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Yes partially. I was also suggesting that scum are the only ones that truly know everyone's alignment. So Clark is an interesting read for me and would like to expand on this later. He actually failed a test earlier and it looks bad for him but his play has indicated town for me. I will be keeping a good look at him throughout the game but it's currently Not enough for me to keep my vote on him currently.

So after my reread my vote will most comfortably be here

UNVOTE: clark
VOTE: raya36

I'm interested in what this failed test is

me too. Hey TTJT - what was the test?

Read that post from the lens of a reya misshang

Can't speak for anyone else but myself here. Now read this list from the perspective of a player calling out what they see.

[TheThirteenthJT]

The desperation for this lynch to go through is palpable. Remember this page.

Interestingly enough you townread those who pushed your slot elimination the hardest.

[Battle Mage]

No. We get Porkens today. Why lynch who you think Porkens buddy is before confirming Porkens is scum

you'd better get him tomorrow then!

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

Where's your vote then?

My vote is "on" Blopp I just don't want him at L-1

Perhaps it is a coincidence, but since being wagoned, Blopp has removed their profile pic. That means they have been onsite and decided not to post. So now we have her ignoring the initial wagon that I started with 72o, despite posting after it began and ignoring my case. In addition, we have her logging on to remove her profile pic and still not posting. Feels a lot like giving up to me.

This is a bad case and very reachy.

Also can you all look back at my two questions (rqs) I asked. I really want to know the answer for the first one.

I'll do this in my next post.

UNVOTE:
I don't want a quick hammer. L-2 is plenty for pressure. Scumlean on Lucky for not removing his vote. Could be hoping for that quickhammer

Is he your only scumlean or do you have more?

Lucky and blopp. Maybe Clark but I'm unsure

"I scumlean Lucky for possibly wanting a quick hammer on my other scumlean."

For the record, I'm expecting Blopp not to post again until the slot is replaced, and if the slot claims VT I will be pushing for the slot to be eliminated.

Just because I scumlean him doesnt mean I'm right (I never take associations into account D1. I often have multiple scumread that don't work together). And its perfectly viable to be concerned about someone not removing their vote at L-1 when Blopp hasn't even talked yet.

Actually since I can't vote Blopp right now VOTE: Lucky. I think this is more likely anyway. Your stats case also was reachy and the whole basis of your scumread isn't concrete. I would accept your case if and only if it was supporting evidence of a much stronger and more viable case.

Isn't most Day 1 early cases reachy? I really hate this argument
Also I see you join The Luciano wagon after I printed you to vote and someone else joined before you. I don't like this. I could argue myself that your case on him is reachy but again my case is reachy here no? Finally your case is more repreat what was already aid to give you a reason to join the wagon. While not Al we always scum indicative it's a good start.

Once I catch up my read here I will chiose where my vote goes but you are definitely setting off alarms.

I broadly agree with this take.

So I'm not super into this game yet so I'm gonna make a readslist to orient myself.

Town:

JamSV - Town, tonal/reasoning, 56 was bad town play imo. Scum wouldn't be so obvious if this was an attempt at a quick hammer though I think.

ClarkBar - I think Clark is overeager town on a reread. This is consistent with their RVS play. I no longer find defending Blopp to be scummy since the eagerness is consistent. His responses to my questioning about this sounds genuine too.

Homura - Townlean, I like the stance taken on Lucky and it's very similar thoughts to my own.

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Null:

LicketyQuickety - Null, need to hear more.

72offsuit - Null. I actually scumread RQS a bit (but very weakly), I don't find it works or does any good and responses tend to lead only to unrelated debate. It muddies the thread. Also why start RQS then refuse to answer and say it won't help find alignment? What is your read on Lucky?

Blopp - Scumlean/null for lack of content. I want to hear from her or a replacement.

Scum:

LuckyLuciano - Scum, didn't remove vote at L-1, reachy case on Blopp (had a greeting in their first post, LAMIST post (23) but I heavily disagree. How is 23 any different than the RQS questions and how could she be using it to try to look town or helpful?, saying that they came online to remove their profile pic but didn't post so must be given up scum). It seems like he's trying to make a case out of nothing. It also seems like he's trying to set up a lynch to for sure be Blopp (stating that if he gets replaced and they claim VT he'll push for their lynch, not seeming particularly interested in hearing from the replacement). It's always best to hear from the replacement of a sus player. I don't like the statistics analysis too. Usually when I see stuff like this I take it as busy work. It's not a strong case, there's lots of variables, it muddied up the thread and made the game less readable for me at least. A question for you Lucky, why can't newbtown get frustrated and quit when a wagon is formed on them? Why must Blopp be scum for this?

A good readslist. Smart town or informed scum? Only 1 scumread though, and largest wagon at this point, so not going out on much of a limb. Although she hasn't given herself much room for manoerve either. Gut feeling still Raya-scum, has felt awkwardly out of step with rest of the play to this point.

@JamSV, why did you put Blopp at L-1 and proceed to tell players to feel free to hammer and state that you see quickhammers as NAI?

A quickhammer can be seen as NAI as it could just be a really bad misunderstanding leading to a bad play. Which is why I believe a quickhammer without an explanation is scum indicative, but one with (on its own) is NAI.

I put him on L-1 to see how he would react. Nobody would express intent to hammer so my proceeding post was to in force that a extra bit of pressure. I have faith nobody would come in and swoop to quick hammer, considering we had all already posted (excluding Echovision), and we could all easily see how close he is to getting hammered. I will admit, I really didn't expect him to "leave" if we can class that as what he is doing. Plus that type of play is good for moving more out of the RVS, and it can apply simple pressure to see just how easily somebody would actually fold.

- If you were wondering if I have a bit too much faith in people, I probably do.

Quick hammers are a difficult subject to assess. In my first game I delivered a naked quickhammer as town. I was a town mason and we had our reasons for it. In the end all quickhammers have reasons even if not explained and do follow an agenda so they are touchy subjects for me. No we maybe a quickhammers earlier in the day umpromted may be a case for scum but have not encountered that situation yet. Most come towards the end of the day phase.

Now I do find it interesting you placed Blopp at e-1 and didn't really get called out much for it. Instead Raya unvoted and Luciano got scumleaned for not doing do as well. I don't believe you had I'll intentions and neither did Luciano. Raya comes away again as most suspicious and a bit LAMIST for his unvote.

That's a very good point about Raya not calling out Jam - I missed that one! Would Raya have been tunnelling her partner this early? Although a scumlean is only a warning shot I guess...

And you're preaching to the converted on quickhammers!

You can take a look at my meta if you want 72. 4 townleans/reads early game is not unusual for me. multiple scumleans isn't either. And I'm sure you can find reads similar to my read on Homura too.

You're not scumread because my RQS statement is very weak and can only be used as a statement to back up a stronger case.

Don't like this in isolation, and had a similar comment towards Lucky earlier. Comes across as if the cases would be artificial rather than legitimate (i'll only commit to a scumread once I think my case will stand up to scrutiny). Unlikely Raya-72 scumpair?

TheThirteenthJT - Slight townlean. 58 are you suggesting Jam and Clark are partners? What is your read on Clark? I believe your vote is still there.

Yes partially. I was also suggesting that scum are the only ones that truly know everyone's alignment. So Clark is an interesting read for me and would like to expand on this later. He actually failed a test earlier and it looks bad for him but his play has indicated town for me. I will be keeping a good look at him throughout the game but it's currently Not enough for me to keep my vote on him currently.

So after my reread my vote will most comfortably be here

UNVOTE: clark
VOTE: raya36

I'm interested in what this failed test is

me too. Hey TTJT - what was the test?

Read that post from the lens of a reya misshang

Can't speak for anyone else but myself here. Now read this list from the perspective of a player calling out what they see.

Additionally I've never voted for Raya, and have been clear she is one of my current townreads.

[Battle Mage]

Clark do you want the hammer?

[ClarkBar]

And I will tell you, I was excited to be the hammer. I've never done it before, I was going to post a M.C. Hammer "hammer time" gif and everything. But we had people like Looker and BM who were still catching up/giving reactions and so I was being patient. And then it turned out my vote math was wrong. If somebody claims intent I would actually request they let me unvote, then they put Pork at L-1 so I can then hammer.

My dream was in reach and I let it slip through my fingers.

VOTE: Porkens

E-1^ just to be clear.

I've had one vote target all game thus far, who's excited for me to have been right thus far?

^Yes, please.

[Porkens]

The desperation for this lynch to go through is palpable. Remember this page.

Maybe next game, don't start off with exclaiming you like memegambits and lolhammers, which only seek to harm town, you'd get at least a bit of benefit of the doubt due to being a replacement that way.

This really looks like you know I’m town.

[ClarkBar]

If you promise me you'll flip him tomorrow I'll join Pork today.

I promise that I'll reread the game with the knowledge of the upcoming flip(s?) in mind.

[Battle Mage]

unvote then, I'll -1 and you can hammer.

[LicketyQuickety]

I can see any one of Looker, Clark, 13 being teamed with BM.