Newbie 2018: Ferrets [GAME OVER]

[clidd]

i must admit that i have yet to feel the town waves radiate from mujie, sunflower-friend.

also, regarding the experience i think that my personal theory is that sjreaver is experienced in other formats but not forum mafia, and while they lend their talents to playing something like this it's a different setting entirely. not a fresh newbie sj might be emboldened to do some shenanigans but i feel they'd probably be too self-conscious of the backlash for them to willfully claim vt.

I had a conclusion similar to yours in relation to SJ, but what really caught my attention was that nobody seemed to care much about the claim and acceptance was expressively quick, which makes me think that the resistance on my part, with general opinions of that he is VT for more than a pretext and the impartiality of some players, indicate that there is a collective distance from his wagon that reflect me as a position of vulnerability, more common, in my experience, in slots that are being evaluated by both the alignments, more likely town than not.

[clidd]

post 16 seems to have a lot of back and forth in it without any conclusion coming from it.

I agree with this, and I felt the same about 20 too

VOTE: mujie

oh, i meant 20 and was staring at the pretty little 16 in the quote.

hah, I didn't check the number either I just assumed you were talking about 13

That would be a slip if it weren't for the fact that I also didn't notice that post 16 was mine.

[clidd]

VOTE: mujie

mujie, why would you point out the fact that it could be wifom from a pr? wouldn't it be the opposite of having sjreaver's back to bring attention to that fact? also, post 16 seems to have a lot of back and forth in it without any conclusion coming from it.

Out of curiosity, what benefit would scum have in asking that? It seems like something no one would want to just bring up, since town wouldn't want to ruin the bluff and mafia wouldn't want to point out a third option.

@SJReaver
Of course he's trustworthy to you, he's the only one who's claimed to have your back! Hopefully in a good way, I suppose we'll see

Mujie's interpretation of the claim does not seem alarming to me. I'll take a closer look at his posts.

[clidd]

in the context of that post i think it's a possible buddying attempt while disarming the worth that the wifom would have.

Ah, I understand. He did cozy up to SJ awful quick, and from what I understand, despite having a new player slot he's played before, just some time ago?
Thanks for clarifying. So, at least for the time being:

VOTE: mujie

Mujie, can you explain why you pointed that out?

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Of course I didn't put out a conclusion yet. I didn't have a conclusion yet. I prefer to wait for more conclusive evidence to vote for someone.

And I said I'd prefer not to if possible. As in: If I have two scum reads, 1 who's first game it is and one who's a veteran player, I'd rather vote for the veteran player because it would suck for a brand new player to be lynched on the first day. Maybe it's just my nature, especially as a youth worker though. Like we took someone to Friday football, we made sure he had the best first session so he'd feel confident about it.

As for why I pointed it out:

1) I always like to joke and like turn someone's statement into a good version. Like that old joke where it twists around: "Your mum... Is a very nice person."

2) At the time, I wasn't thinking "This guy's a scum, I'm gonna try to take that suspicion away. I was thinking "This guy made a mistake, but if I suggest he could be bluffing, then it might cast doubt, thus making the mafia do a double take."

So I do think SJ's leaning towards scum, but OK, so while writing this post, I realised why I was hesitant to vote. In Epicmafia, IIRC, once everyone's voted, the lynch happens. It's so fast that you can't vote recklessly. But here, it's not a lynch when everyone votes, it's after 9 days.

So...

VOTE: SJReaver

I know someone's gonna say I voted for SJ just to make me seem less scummy, but he's my strongest suspicion atm, but if a stronger suspicion comes along who's first game it isn't, I'll vote for them. That's just who I am. (Side Note: For like half an hour, I was debating in my head whether to vote for SJReaver, until I realised what the difference in formats meant.

I will comment on this later, when I complete my remarks about you. The vote is good, you probably read what I said about him.

[Pearofclubs]

Why did you classify his claim as "strange" if your impression was tending towards town alignment rather than scum ?

If it is strange, something of that seemed "out of place" from your perspective, which would indicate doubt and consequently would incite questioning. Your instance of *conflict* does not seem natural in this context.

I said it was weird because I thought it was weird. Is claiming vanilla something people do? I haven't really seen it before.

That being said, I did ask the only question that popped into my head as a reaction: I asked him if he was new. His response seemed fine.

May I ask what conflict you're referring to?

[clidd]

Clidd both manages to write a great deal and all of it comes off as polished and weighted. He's good at keeping his cards to his chest. If he's a Townie, that's wonderful. If he's not, then I consider him the biggest threat to winning and want him off the board before the end of the day.

Itty, bitty problem: not sure how to figure that out yet.

I heard that a few times, and the fact that you are saying it is statistically a sign that personally weighs on me to strengthen a particular idea about your role. I will make a comparison today.

[clidd]

Why did you classify his claim as "strange" if your impression was tending towards town alignment rather than scum ?

If it is strange, something of that seemed "out of place" from your perspective, which would indicate doubt and consequently would incite questioning. Your instance of *conflict* does not seem natural in this context.

I said it was weird because I thought it was weird. Is claiming vanilla something people do? I haven't really seen it before.

That being said, I did ask the only question that popped into my head as a reaction: I asked him if he was new. His response seemed fine.

May I ask what conflict you're referring to?

You had demonstrated an uncertainty incompatible with your impression, which sounded unnatural. I will expand on this when I finish pending items on SJ/mujie.

[clidd]

It would be interesting if the two players who didn't talk yet were replaced in the meantime.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Of course I didn't put out a conclusion yet. I didn't have a conclusion yet. I prefer to wait for more conclusive evidence to vote for someone.

And I said I'd prefer not to if possible. As in: If I have two scum reads, 1 who's first game it is and one who's a veteran player, I'd rather vote for the veteran player because it would suck for a brand new player to be lynched on the first day. Maybe it's just my nature, especially as a youth worker though. Like we took someone to Friday football, we made sure he had the best first session so he'd feel confident about it.

As for why I pointed it out:

1) I always like to joke and like turn someone's statement into a good version. Like that old joke where it twists around: "Your mum... Is a very nice person."

2) At the time, I wasn't thinking "This guy's a scum, I'm gonna try to take that suspicion away. I was thinking "This guy made a mistake, but if I suggest he could be bluffing, then it might cast doubt, thus making the mafia do a double take."

So I do think SJ's leaning towards scum, but OK, so while writing this post, I realised why I was hesitant to vote. In Epicmafia, IIRC, once everyone's voted, the lynch happens. It's so fast that you can't vote recklessly. But here, it's not a lynch when everyone votes, it's after 9 days.

So...

VOTE: SJReaver

I know someone's gonna say I voted for SJ just to make me seem less scummy, but he's my strongest suspicion atm, but if a stronger suspicion comes along who's first game it isn't, I'll vote for them. That's just who I am. (Side Note: For like half an hour, I was debating in my head whether to vote for SJReaver, until I realised what the difference in formats meant.

I will comment on this later, when I complete my remarks about you. The vote is good, you probably read what I said about him.

Complement:

"good" in the sense that he has logical means of arriving at the suspicious inference about SJ, therefore, the vote is not just an attempt to materialize a counter-wagon in my vision.

[Pearofclubs]

Spoiler:

VOTE: SJReaver

I know someone's gonna say I voted for SJ just to make me seem less scummy, but he's my strongest suspicion atm, but if a stronger suspicion comes along who's first game it isn't, I'll vote for them. That's just who I am.

I don't think voting with your suspicions is scummy, but this line seems a little off.

Implying you're hesitant to vote for someone new in the same breath as you voted for someone new is a little contradictory, isn't it? And although this is a nitpick, the line also implies that if you scumread another new player, you wouldn't shift your vote. Although that could easily just be wording. Also, @Clidd

Spoiler:

Possibly it's because I just got up a little bit ago and haven't had my coffee yet, but I'm not positive what that gif means. Could you elaborate?

[Pearofclubs]

It would be interesting if the two players who didn't talk yet were replaced in the meantime.

I agree. Having two basically empty slots isn't great.

[Pearofclubs]

You had demonstrated an uncertainty incompatible with your impression, which sounded unnatural. I will expand on this when I finish pending items on SJ/mujie.

Ah. While I wait for you to elaborate, I feel the need to point out that it's day one, page three, so of course I'm uncertain.

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 1.1

mujie

(3): Ydrasse, GuiltyLion, Pearofclubs

SJReaver

(1): mujie

Not voting

(5): opcleaver01, SJReaver, Apto 3rd, beeboy, clidd

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-07-19 22:19:00)

Notes:

• opcleaver01 and Apto 3rd have yet to confirm. They have (expired on 2020-07-10 16:33:00) to do so.

[mujie]

Spoiler:

VOTE: SJReaver

I know someone's gonna say I voted for SJ just to make me seem less scummy, but he's my strongest suspicion atm, but if a stronger suspicion comes along who's first game it isn't, I'll vote for them. That's just who I am.

I don't think voting with your suspicions is scummy, but this line seems a little off.

Implying you're hesitant to vote for someone new in the same breath as you voted for someone new is a little contradictory, isn't it? And although this is a nitpick, the line also implies that if you scumread another new player, you wouldn't shift your vote. Although that could easily just be wording. Also, @Clidd

Spoiler:

I was hesitant about voting and I debated it in my head, until I realised that this was the key difference between MS and EM. Here, you’re able to vote earlier than you should in EM, and that’s when I finally decided to vote.

I’d also expect people to be suspicious about that, because it came after people accused me of buddying up. Therefore, if I was maf, then I’d want to vote for SJ to remove that suspicion. Which is the second reason I was hesitant about voting for SJ specifically, because that can be seen as suspicious. In the end, I decided I’d rather do what I think is right over what it appears to be.

Basically, i think my final view on the matter is: I’ll vote for the more suspicious person, but if there’s two equally suspicious to me, I’d rather vote for someone who’s not on their first game in order to be more encouraging. But that’s a very small possibility.

I’m also confused about the coffee meme, because I assumed I answered the question from it, unless I misunderstood what you were asking at the time.

Possibly it's because I just got up a little bit ago and haven't had my coffee yet, but I'm not positive what that gif means. Could you elaborate?

I went back and forth until I realised the key difference between MF and EM was that here you’re encouraged to vote before you have all the info to put pressure on players. The second reason I was hesitant to vote was because people had accused me of buddying up, so if I was maf, I’d vote for SJ to dodge those accusations. Once I decided I’d rather do what I think is right than what might be seen as suspicious, I made up my mind to vote.

Thinking about it, my final view is this: I’ll vote for the most scummy player, but if there are two equally scummy players I’d rather vote for the one who’s not on their first game, at least on the first day, in order to be more encouraging. So I think my view has developed on that.

I’m confused about the tea meme too? It implies they’re waiting for my answer, but I’m pretty sure I already answered the question, unless I misunderstood what was being asked

[Umlaut]

Seeking replacements for opcleaver01 and Apto 3rd. They may keep their slots if they post before a replacement is found.

[GuiltyLion]

hah, I didn't check the number either I just assumed you were talking about 13

be honest with me. Are You Town?

yes! I promise

[clidd]

The gif was a force of habit, it doesn't have a bigger meaning behind it.

[GuiltyLion]

So I do think SJ's leaning towards scum

Mujie, here's what I want to understand

You say SJ is "leaning towards scum". To me that sounds like a pretty strong claim! Usually to me that suggests you think he's more likely to be scum than not, or perhaps the most likely of all players who have posted so far to be scum.

Here's what you said previously about the claim thing:

I can see a newbie town claiming to be vanilla so that they don’t get suspected, but I think a newbie mafia would be way too nervous to claim it like that. Especially so early on.

That said, 10 minutes for a pretty detailed post. I’d assume that meant he was planning his post before the day 1 PM and after the role PM. A newbie mafia might want to plan out his first post in a lot of detail to make sure he can’t get caught, while a newbie townie I’d imagine wouldn’t need to do so.

You make some good observations here:
- Newbie mafia may be nervous to claim immediately
- Newbie town might claim so they aren't suspected
- He probably planned his post before the day 1 start
- Mafia might plan out their first post

I agree with all of these. What I don't agree with necessarily is this - "newbie townie wouldn't need to [plan out their first post]" - you're right that they wouldn't

need

to, but what if they want to? What if SJ is excited to play and spent the pregame planning his first post? I find that relatively easy to imagine coming from a newbie as town.

So in my mind, planning the first post like that is generally not alignment-indicative (NAI), I don't see a strong reason to conclude it's more likely scum-motivated than town-motivated. Yet you say he's "leaning towards scum", help me understand why you're discounting the possibility that SJ is town who planned their first post.

[clidd]

I finish my post about Mujie:

[clidd]

In a nutshell, I believe that Mujie is someone who demonstrates a certain insecurity and uncertainty that seems natural to me. The way he repeatedly uses the experience of another platform to try to orient himself here, under other circumstances, is an attempt that I consider positive, although he seems to lack interest in relation to his read on SJ. The constant concern about what others will think of him is something negative, but at the moment I am speculating that perhaps it is an interpersonal particularity that is manifesting itself because of his adaptation from the fast rhythm (which he is theoretically more accustomed) to the slow rhythm. The tonality of his posts seems to me more relaxed, with the absence of apprehension that a scum mentality with a cognitive load would have.

(Reading the spoiler is optional)

Spoiler:

I spent my summers catfishing at the lake

Huh. I've always found catfishes spend more time online than in lakes. But whatever floats your boat.

So, I don't say this to criticize but just as a point of feedback, first tip is you don't want to claim your role like that, even if you are a Vanilla. Mafia need to get rid of the power roles as fast as possible, so usually they will decide to kill people who they think may be a power role. Claiming vanilla narrows the pool for them.

SJReaver could always be a power role pretending to be a vanilla townie. I gotcha back SJReaver.

VOTE: Pearofcubs

Are you just voting for everyone who hasn't replied yet in the hopes that they end up replying? I don't have any scumreads yet cause it's mostly been tips so far, but clidd, I am curious as to why you voted for SJReaver?

The first line is a NAI comment.

The second line is a guess that carries a speculation that brings no benefit when pointed out, considering that, as a rule, it would not be of interest to the town alignment to provide information that could lead to the identification of PR players, keeping in mind that survival of these has a very strong mechanical impact to increase the chances of victory. Within that context, I can imagine three scenarios here:

1- Mujie is scum

, therefore, his perception differs from that of a town player due to the cognitive load that being scum and knowing already who is town carries, which made him interpret the claim in an unusual way, because he comes from a mentality scum (TMI).

2- Mujie is town

and naively made his opinion about the claim transparent.

3- Mujie is town

and commented on purpose with some goal in mind.

Reflections:

- The first scenario assumes that the process of interpreting the posts around him was influenced by the cognitive load that he, theoretically, would be feeling for being scum and already having information that no town would have, which means that his point of view would inevitably be influenced by it. But, suffering from a cognitive load suggests that he would be more ''tense'', in the sense of humor and would tend to act more cautiously in his interactions, which is something that I found contrary to the way he interacted in more relaxed tone when he answered post 7 and for the repetition of the gif ''razz'', which seemed subtly natural. Scum!Newbies influenced by cognitive loads, in my experience, have more difficulty in detecting jokes and interacting with comical situations, as they unconsciously operate within a more defensive mentality, to prevent leaks of information (slips).

- The second scenario assumes that he would not have a correct judgment of the flow of useful/non-useful opinions due to inexperience, that is, he would not be aware of the consequences of exposing a certain opinion. But that would also imply that he had no contact with the ''mafia'' theme, something that is not true considering references from another platform in posts 14, 20 and 45.

- The third scenario is interesting, as I can see variations of it, with changes in the type of objective that he would be aiming (evidently, within the scope of interests that he would imagine beneficial to the town alignment), which could go from hindering the interpretation by the mafia (by adding wifom

to the claim), to reaction test, in order to get a better view of the slot that made the claim.

Conclusion:

- I imagine that within the line of reasoning that encompasses these three scenarios, I am more inclined to think that the healthy inference is belonging to the third scenario, which, although not necessarily the most accurate when measuring his behavior, is the one that comes closest , in my opinion, in discriminating the alignment connected to his intention when exposing the comment regarding the claim, which in this case is towny and probably comes from a non-malicious perspective, at least in the context in which I evaluated the possible segmentations from the disclosure of post 13 and the suspicions surrounding it.

Oh, I don't really have any tips, I normally played on epicmafia, and in that you're kind of waiting for people to die to figure out roles. And then you go back and look for contradictions or, for example, if someone posted at the start of the day, it might indicate they're a power role cause a night only ends when they make an action. But that's with fast-paced mafia. But it will probably be easier when more people are dead I imagine.

Man, I was going to jokingly play my character as a conscientious objector, but for lynching, but apparently my character's now an insane sociopath who wants people to die so he can beat the Mafia. OK, yeah, this is gonna be a fun role to play.

He comments on a particular feature of Epicmafia and makes a brief comparison with the forum we are in, noting that the different pace between platforms prevents the reasoning presented from being applied here (NAI).

There are more features of comic content in the bottom line, which basically reinforce the idea that he is not under the influence of a cognitive load, as I speculated previously.

I suppose you were away from the forum for a long time, Mujie, although you were still active on the theme through other platforms.

What is your impression of the claim on post 7 ? Is it something you imagine a beginner scum would do ?

I say I’ve been on epic mafia, I haven’t been active on that in years, but I used to be really active on it. But I normally play on classic, so you’re basically assumed to be vanilla unless proven otherwise. I’ve never really seen someone claim to be townie until the later days, where townies end up being the hammer.

I can see a newbie town claiming to be vanilla so that they don’t get suspected, but I think a newbie mafia would be way too nervous to claim it like that. Especially so early on.

That said, 10 minutes for a pretty detailed post. I’d assume that meant he was planning his post before the day 1 PM and after the role PM. A newbie mafia might want to plan out his first post in a lot of detail to make sure he can’t get caught, while a newbie townie I’d imagine wouldn’t need to do so.

Also, from a meta standpoint, it’s SJ’s first game, so if another scum read comes up I’d rather lynch them than lynch the brand new player on the first day.

Thinking about it that way, it’s definitely a possibility that SJ is maf, but I’m not yet ready to vote for him

Reflections:

- In the first paragraph, he retrieves more of the experience obtained in Epicmafia and tries to use this alternative knowledge to answer my question.

- In the second paragraph, he expresses a personal opinion that is probably common sense for everyone, considering that most beginner players, regardless of their profile, would feel nervous when trying to operate a false claim very early.

- In the third paragraph, he associates the elaboration of the observed post with a more biased mentality, within the newbie context, something I particularly agree with, although this does not consider the cooperation between this newbie player with a partner, who can change the course of player action.

- In the fourth paragraph, he gives his opinion on the lynch priority, giving SJ more opportunity, which makes sense, considering that the queue we are in was made especially with the purpose of helping newcomers to join the forum community.

- In the fifth paragraph, he complements the previous answer, giving an additional simplified justification.

Conclusion:

- There is a back and forth with the opinion about SJ, which would not necessarily be scummy if there were a more accessible conclusion. What I understood is that, because he has many impressions about the same individual, not all of them having the same agreement, the indirect conclusion would be that he would not be ready to vote for SJ because of this uncertainty, which is the reason why he gives reasons for SJ to be logically scum, but does not materialize it in one vote. There is no greater interest in clarifying this doubt, in fact, but when I compare his uncertainty with the uncertainty presented by Pear, for example, I note that in this case, the insecurity shown is attributed to a confusion of ideas, which sounds genuine. In other words, his insecurity seems towny, but his apathy towards solving the problem is scummy, in isolation.

Of course I didn't put out a conclusion yet. I didn't have a conclusion yet. I prefer to wait for more conclusive evidence to vote for someone.

And I said I'd prefer not to if possible. As in: If I have two scum reads, 1 who's first game it is and one who's a veteran player, I'd rather vote for the veteran player because it would suck for a brand new player to be lynched on the first day. Maybe it's just my nature, especially as a youth worker though. Like we took someone to Friday football, we made sure he had the best first session so he'd feel confident about it.

As for why I pointed it out:

1) I always like to joke and like turn someone's statement into a good version. Like that old joke where it twists around: "Your mum... Is a very nice person."

2) At the time, I wasn't thinking "This guy's a scum, I'm gonna try to take that suspicion away. I was thinking "This guy made a mistake, but if I suggest he could be bluffing, then it might cast doubt, thus making the mafia do a double take."

So I do think SJ's leaning towards scum, but OK, so while writing this post, I realised why I was hesitant to vote. In Epicmafia, IIRC, once everyone's voted, the lynch happens. It's so fast that you can't vote recklessly. But here, it's not a lynch when everyone votes, it's after 9 days.

So...

VOTE: SJReaver

I know someone's gonna say I voted for SJ just to make me seem less scummy, but he's my strongest suspicion atm, but if a stronger suspicion comes along who's first game it isn't, I'll vote for them. That's just who I am. (Side Note: For like half an hour, I was debating in my head whether to vote for SJReaver, until I realised what the difference in formats meant.

More associations to the experience in the epicmafia, reinforcement of the premise of ''newbie> veteran'', exaggerated concern about public opinion in relation to the attitude he showed when he suspected SJ and, finally, a subtle ''get this off my chest'' about the way he approaches the game and the formalization of the FoS with a vote. Nothing extraordinary.

@Muj

I have some questions:

1- You draw several parallels with your experience in the epicmafia. Now bringing to the current platform, imagine that you are scum, how would you use the time available in the forum (days) to organize your game ? which approach do you think would be interesting for this initial phase of random votes ?
2- Apart from SJ (who is the first), what is your second biggest suspect ?
3- What is your view on the two slots that will be replaced ? is there any role interpretation when a player leaves the game within your epicmafia experience ?
4- In post 20 you suggest in a passage that a beginner player, as scum, would be more inclined to prepare a more elaborate initial post than a beginner town player. Have you seen this scenario before ?
5- You showed a certain level of concern in post 45 about how you were making your suspicion transparent. Is the fact that other players are suspicious of you something that makes you nervous ? if yes/no, why ?
6- I noticed that you were not afraid to comment on SJ's claim in post 13. Is there any difference in the approach, within your experience in the epicmafia, with possible PR players ? Is it not in the collective interest to avoid revealing PRs ? Is there any connection between your approach to the subject (PR) and your playstyle ?

[clidd]

I finish my post about Mujie:

Correction:

Finished.

[GuiltyLion]

clidd you really gotta make your posts less wordy my dude

I try to start reading these sentences and they have so many unnecessary clauses that my eyes glaze over within seconds

[clidd]

Clidd both manages to write a great deal and all of it comes off as polished and weighted. He's good at keeping his cards to his chest. If he's a Townie, that's wonderful. If he's not, then I consider him the biggest threat to winning and want him off the board before the end of the day.

Itty, bitty problem: not sure how to figure that out yet.

I heard that a few times, and the fact that you are saying it is statistically a sign that personally weighs on me to strengthen a particular idea about your role. I will make a comparison today.

I'll do this now.

[clidd]

clidd you really gotta make your posts less wordy my dude

I try to start reading these sentences and they have so many unnecessary clauses that my eyes glaze over within seconds

Which is why it is optional, you don't have to read. My resume already offers an idea of ​​my opinion about the slot.