Mini Normal 2153: Post-game

[Galron]

Why is Replacement for Sujimichi not drawing any attention?

[notscience]

He hasn’t seriously mentioned me once yet and it shakes me to my core.

I think he’s getting a pass until he’s caught up

[Dunnstral]

He is caught up

[Hoopla]

to any concerned townies,

this is another thing i rarely mention about my play, but feel it may shed light on my actions.

being a dominant force in a game is a blessing and a curse. i try to use my influence as town in the most productive and +EV way as i can. it is hard to for town to see the fruits of my labour this early, but another useful byproduct that comes of it, is it forces literally every player to take a stance on me, or interact with me in some way. given i only know my own alignment as town on d1, i deduce everyone's alignment in relation to my own.

without getting to MD-theoretical, deliberate obfuscation and radically shifting the gamestate's flow is something i encourage to force scum to continually have to adjust, and quite often it shakes out some obvtowns in the process. if i am going to be unreadable anyhow, i may as well selfishly discombobulate the gamestate to better improve my reads. in my eyes, there is nothing to be lost here, and only gains information-wise.

~~

intuitively, i am highly suspicious of klick for the reason Sujimichi documented in 599;

I don't think I'm going to be able to accurately read Hoopla until like Day 3 at best. Until then, Hoopla is a consistently good influence on the gamestate and probably won't be getting executed today.

The current events are interesting given Klick's opinion here.

from my perspective, it is clear there was some opportunism in the early-mid part of my wagon. given klick appears to understand the purpose of my play, his vote is highly suspicious. occam's razor: is it more likely he actually thinks i am scum here, or is he seizing the moment when whispers of hoopla suspicion started floating about? i think the latter. and as a bonus moment of suspicion; calling for bellaphant to join the wagon in 536. isn't she your suspect?

i think klick is manipulating bellaphant turn-of-heart on his alignment to power this wagon, whereas if he is actually town, he would be wary of forming a coalition with a suspect.

i still townread bellaphant on tone, and partially find her town in relation to klick's scumminess. i think the interplay between one another has been too nuanced for them to be both scum together, so i am still townreading her and accept her vote, partially sad, yet also optimistic that she can see the light.

notscience's vote also seemed opportunistic and of all the players voting me, i'd like him to explain his vote. as recently as 518 notscience ruled me as town;

Gera, una (but I’m a little annoyed I’m going to have to argue against his scumread me all game again), klick, you (?), flippy

then he jumps on my wagon in 553, abandoning the dunnstral wagon (who he actually suspects!) to power mine. explain yourself notscience.

una is another vote i can kinda see as being OK - it is at least consistent with how his view on me has evolved throughout the game, and i am still townreading him. i mean, there has to be at least a couple of confused townies voting me; he is probably one of them.

the only two votes i haven't talked about has been the head of the wagon and the caboose; isis and dunnstral. neither ping me overtly one way or another. i see motivations either way.

isis has displayed a healthy/natural amount of paranoia for my slot that i usually come to expect from town players who have dealt with me in the past. i oftentimes find scum will just placate me or attack me in an over-the-top way without any subtlety (for those who read or were in mini 2146 see how pranadevil-scum treated me in that game). my intuition says isis is town based on that, though i think she is one the few personalities with enough verve to take me on as scum head-to-head d1.

as for dunnstral, i am still learning more about him and can go either way on his L-1 vote. its brazen, but it is also in keeping earlier suspicion he expressed on my slot. its brazenness i'd usually consider slightly-town, but in this case see it as more in keeping with character than anything else.

~~

shockingly, i am most suspect of klick's/notscience's votes of me. i really hope the town isn't up against one or both of them as scum as we may be in trouble (especially if i am executed and not around to put them in place).

my dunnstral-vote was an attempt to find common ground with notscience and find out more information about dunnstral's slot, but given i actually have some genuine suspicions now, it's time to move on;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: klick

if i have time today, i'll cover some townreads and some PoE stuff. but felt it was more important to talk about my wagon first.

[Dunnstral]

Well I guess not, they jump between the past and the present like some kind of ghetto time traveler

[notscience]

It was a sheep vote and in the very quote you posted I said I was questioning it and at first I was like “hey let’s wagon and get some pressure bc everyone else is saying my dunn read is wrong” then everyone and their mom jumped on you and I did t like it anymore. I’ve had the same inklings they have and them putting a tangible thought process to it made something (pun intended) klick.

Because I noticed the same things they did how it feels like you’re the only one out of step and I get you do need that healthy distance in case someone is scum but you have such a polar opposite view of the game state it’s really weird. I also low key think you saw that making me work for that townread made me townread klick slot even harder last game and could be attempting to pull it off here, but the basic gist was “Dunn wagon wasn’t going anywhere, I wanted pressure but all of a sudden more pressure than I intended”

[notscience]

Hoops calling that wagon of nully/scummy people town was like...the real issue here..plus the random Pockety post towards me.

This and klicks comment about your posts feeling empty are what I’m referring to

[notscience]

on tone, i like bellaphant for town, and will be relying on her klick-expertise early in the piece. please keep me posted.

unabombah has continued his fervent energy from last game and is my other top pick for town. i haven't seen enough from notscience yet to extend the invitation.

i like isis' capricious nature, though that's probably a personality thing rather than anything alignment related.

~~

TOWN BLOC FIRST DRAFT

(no scum allowed this time):

hoopla (president)
bellaphant
unabombah

to be continued...

to the people calling the geraintm "ass": is this stemming from reading geraintm behaviourally or distrusting the constituents of the wagon itself?

geraintm (5): UnaBombaH, Galron, popopopopopopo, Hoopla, bob3141

this actually looks a solid wagon to me and i wouldn't be surprised if it's all town.

it's certainly much better than the early bob wagon, which i think was definitely tarnished - the stench coming from the backend of the wagon: isis/dunnstral/flippy - all characters jumping on late that i have as slightly scummy or neutral.

~~

[Hoopla]

Because I noticed the same things they did how it feels like you’re the only one out of step and I get you do need that healthy distance in case someone is scum but you have such a polar opposite view of the game state it’s really weird. I also low key think you saw that making me work for that townread made me townread klick slot even harder last game and could be attempting to pull it off here, but the basic gist was “Dunn wagon wasn’t going anywhere, I wanted pressure but all of a sudden more pressure than I intended”

for what it's worth, i don't think our views of the gamestate between me and you/una/klick are polar opposite. we do have some overlap. having said that, if there were scum amongst us, why do you expect it to be the one with independent thoughts, as opposed to someone mimicking the de facto narrative? an easier position for a you/una/klick type character as scum to take is to agree with the orthodoxy, especially if it isn't threatening to yourself/teammates.

as far as i can tell, the main point of difference between me and the rest of the big dogs, has been me calling bob town and geraintm as scum.

now that you've seen my reasoning on both, does that change your opinion?

[Dunnstral]

to any concerned townies,

this is another thing i rarely mention about my play, but feel it may shed light on my actions.

being a dominant force in a game is a blessing and a curse. i try to use my influence as town in the most productive and +EV way as i can. it is hard to for town to see the fruits of my labour this early, but another useful byproduct that comes of it, is it forces literally every player to take a stance on me, or interact with me in some way. given i only know my own alignment as town on d1, i deduce everyone's alignment in relation to my own.

without getting to MD-theoretical, deliberate obfuscation and radically shifting the gamestate's flow is something i encourage to force scum to continually have to adjust, and quite often it shakes out some obvtowns in the process. if i am going to be unreadable anyhow, i may as well selfishly discombobulate the gamestate to better improve my reads. in my eyes, there is nothing to be lost here, and only gains information-wise.

~~

intuitively, i am highly suspicious of klick for the reason Sujimichi documented in 599;

I don't think I'm going to be able to accurately read Hoopla until like Day 3 at best. Until then, Hoopla is a consistently good influence on the gamestate and probably won't be getting executed today.

The current events are interesting given Klick's opinion here.

from my perspective, it is clear there was some opportunism in the early-mid part of my wagon. given klick appears to understand the purpose of my play, his vote is highly suspicious. occam's razor: is it more likely he actually thinks i am scum here, or is he seizing the moment when whispers of hoopla suspicion started floating about? i think the latter. and as a bonus moment of suspicion; calling for bellaphant to join the wagon in 536. isn't she your suspect?

i think klick is manipulating bellaphant turn-of-heart on his alignment to power this wagon, whereas if he is actually town, he would be wary of forming a coalition with a suspect.

i still townread bellaphant on tone, and partially find her town in relation to klick's scumminess. i think the interplay between one another has been too nuanced for them to be both scum together, so i am still townreading her and accept her vote, partially sad, yet also optimistic that she can see the light.

notscience's vote also seemed opportunistic and of all the players voting me, i'd like him to explain his vote. as recently as 518 notscience ruled me as town;

Gera, una (but I’m a little annoyed I’m going to have to argue against his scumread me all game again), klick, you (?), flippy

then he jumps on my wagon in 553, abandoning the dunnstral wagon (who he actually suspects!) to power mine. explain yourself notscience.

una is another vote i can kinda see as being OK - it is at least consistent with how his view on me has evolved throughout the game, and i am still townreading him. i mean, there has to be at least a couple of confused townies voting me; he is probably one of them.

the only two votes i haven't talked about has been the head of the wagon and the caboose; isis and dunnstral. neither ping me overtly one way or another. i see motivations either way.

isis has displayed a healthy/natural amount of paranoia for my slot that i usually come to expect from town players who have dealt with me in the past. i oftentimes find scum will just placate me or attack me in an over-the-top way without any subtlety (for those who read or were in mini 2146 see how pranadevil-scum treated me in that game). my intuition says isis is town based on that, though i think she is one the few personalities with enough verve to take me on as scum head-to-head d1.

as for dunnstral, i am still learning more about him and can go either way on his L-1 vote. its brazen, but it is also in keeping earlier suspicion he expressed on my slot. its brazenness i'd usually consider slightly-town, but in this case see it as more in keeping with character than anything else.

~~

shockingly, i am most suspect of klick's/notscience's votes of me. i really hope the town isn't up against one or both of them as scum as we may be in trouble (especially if i am executed and not around to put them in place).

my dunnstral-vote was an attempt to find common ground with notscience and find out more information about dunnstral's slot, but given i actually have some genuine suspicions now, it's time to move on;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: klick

if i have time today, i'll cover some townreads and some PoE stuff. but felt it was more important to talk about my wagon first.

So you finally explained why you were voting me. You know I knew bob's post history when I said 'scummy posts', I didn't just throw that out there and never check their posts.

Can you stop acting like you're the big kid on the block and this dominant force? That only applies within your pre-arrenged group that all seemed to join this game together

Disagree on the reasoning for scumreading Klick. It's day 1, scum are more likely to adhere to a strict 'I think this person is mafia, so I won't vote with them' policy than town are. To an extent scum bus/you can be wrong on certain reads and that's not a reason to not vote certain people on day 1

Notscience shows this negative tell where right after I join the wagon is icky and they have to jump off it
I think they've had a lot of bad reactions to events this game in fact, so I'm fine with seeing them becoming not alive
VOTE: notscience

I'm lightly scumreading popopopo right now; not a lot to go on, and it's not related to any of my other reads. They kind of suck this game.

[notscience]

Do your best bucko I’m sure you can get me to 3 votes

[Dunnstral]

nice and towny to taunt me like that

[notscience]

The logic makes sense but re-bob- it literally just says you’re townreading him due to the game state and not how he’s been and it seems weirdly in sync with your self defense of similar logic iirc?

And I see where you’re going with gera but I really think it’s a gera tell not a scumtell

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Day 1's Thirty-First Votecount

Hoopla (4): Isis, Klick, Bellaphant, UnaBombaH
geraintm (2): popopopopopopo, bob3141
Klick (2): geraintm , Hoopla
Replacement for Sujimichi (1): Galron
bob3141 (1): Emperor flippyNips
popopopopopopo (1): Replacement for Sujimichi
notscience (1): Dunnstral
Dunnstral (0):
Bellaphant (0):
Emperor flippyNips (0):
Galron (0):
UnaBombaH (0):
Isis (0):

Not Voting (1): notscience

With 13 voters, 7 votes are required to execute.

Day 1 will end without an execution in (expired on 2020-07-20 00:15:00).

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: popopopopopopo

[notscience]

What changed your mind?

[Hoopla]

The logic makes sense but re-bob- it literally just says you’re townreading him due to the game state and not how he’s been and it seems weirdly in sync with your self defense of similar logic iirc?

And I see where you’re going with gera but I really think it’s a gera tell not a scumtell

i'll cover my town reads in due time; still organising those thoughts.

but to stimulate some conversation; how do you view bob's burst of posts across late page 25/early 26? that read as a flurry of town energy to me.

[Dunnstral]

What changed your mind?

popopo is much more likely to be wagoned in my mind, and I want in on it

[Isis]

High Fluff High Content > Medium Fluff Low Content

I don't know why people pretend fluff subtracts from how much content someone has posted, game after game.

Don't be a flareon

Wait, wtf?
I didn't call fluff bad.
Just them calling fluff from others bad.
At least by implication.

They didn't call fluff from others bad, they called

a lack of nonfluff substance

bad.
It's like the difference between calling the note someone scribbled on the check to the waiter bad vs. calling "the missing tip to go with the note you scribbled on the check to the waiter" bad, they are very distinct

[Dunnstral]

oddly specific

[Isis]

A scummier rear end to the wagon means the scumteam doesn't think you're seriously likely to get exiled...

As a reminder I'm town and it doesn't matter how "scummy" I am

I've said I townread you, so why did you assume you were the part of the rear end of the wagon I was indicating? I've been liking you but that has a sound like "out, damned spot" to it

Because I was the last vote?

I thought you were L-3 or sth actually

[Isis]

I'm caught up.

Hoopla is still acting scummy and I don't want to vote townier people just to be trendy.

I strongly agree with her townread on bob though and found the bob burst town indicative, especially calibrated for bob.

notscience is such a horrible wagon I'm a little nauseated.

notscience doesn't seem to know who the scumteam is.

[Dunnstral]

notscience doesn't seem to know who the scumteam is.

He should probably check his role pm again then

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Day 1's Thirty-Second Votecount

Hoopla (4): Isis, Klick, Bellaphant, UnaBombaH
geraintm (2): popopopopopopo, bob3141
Klick (2): geraintm , Hoopla
popopopopopopo (2): Replacement for Sujimichi, Dunnstral
Replacement for Sujimichi (1): Galron
bob3141 (1): Emperor flippyNips
notscience (0):
Dunnstral (0):
Bellaphant (0):
Emperor flippyNips (0):
Galron (0):
UnaBombaH (0):
Isis (0):

Not Voting (1): notscience

With 13 voters, 7 votes are required to execute.

Day 1 will end without an execution in (expired on 2020-07-20 00:15:00).

[Dunnstral]

geraintm (2): popopopopopopo, bob3141

Bad wagon