Mini Normal 2153: Post-game

[bob3141]

I have reached the pinnacle of page 9.
Una's use of emojis alarms me, but I like his openness with reads and discussing his thoughts at this early stage.
Good use of a GIF from Dunnstral in 171. Top marks.

is there someone in this game called Sujimichi????

As I am standing in for Sujimichi, I can answer this for you. Sujimichi has other matters to attend to and I will be standing in as their replacement.

@mod

prod this sujimichi character

There is no need for this, mod. I have replaced Sujimichi and do not require prodding.

184: I disagree with this and enjoyed Isis' take, but I don't think your opposition is indicative of your alignment.
The power this Hoopla character demands scares me.
I am not enthused by Galron so far. His only take has been liking Hoopla's content and the rest has been fluff.

So whats your exact read on una then?

[UnaBombaH]

^^they keep commenting on my use of emojis, and nothing much else has caught my eye.

[Replacement for Sujimichi]

It's clear what I meant by examining there. You not reading Gera for this game but off a meta read is what I think is faked. It also comes right after Gera suspects you - and for meta reasons no less.




And again, I am not scumreading you because I think you are wrong on a read. I am scumreading you because I think your read is fabricated. I'm unsure if you're intentionally misconstruing my arguments or not.






I like Una for town based on content. The emoji references are mostly in jest. I say mostly because they do actually ping me as "fake" sometimes, but I know it's probably NAI. Perhaps it warrants some meta checking later.

[Dunnstral]

The stuff about dun here is demonstrably false?

Demonstrate it.

[Hoopla]

Can you explain why you thought those slots were town? Like, I was literally only strongly town reading Una there....

so,

you are asking me to time travel,


embody a previous version of myself,



just so i can relay to you a grainy snapshot of a moment long since passed?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Day 1's Thirty-Fourth Votecount

Hoopla (4): Isis, Klick, Bellaphant, UnaBombaH
geraintm (2): popopopopopopo, bob3141
Klick (2): geraintm , Hoopla
bob3141 (2): Emperor flippyNips, Replacement for Sujimichi
Replacement for Sujimichi (1): Galron
notscience (1): Dunnstral
popopopopopopo (0):
Dunnstral (0):
Bellaphant (0):
Emperor flippyNips (0):
Galron (0):
UnaBombaH (0):
Isis (0):

Not Voting (1): notscience

With 13 voters, 7 votes are required to execute.

Day 1 will end without an execution in (expired on 2020-07-20 00:15:00).

[notscience]

It’s not really that outrageous hoops, it happens all the time

It’s only hard if it’s made up

[Galron]

Going back to look at the Hoopla wagon a little more carefully. Around 18 hours before it starts, Geraintm's wagon is nearly full, and I leave it. Hoopla, who had just said no to leaving, hops off. Dunnstral and Unahbombah start questioning Hoopla's towniness. I chime in. Isis puts down the first vote for Hoopla in 531 based on perspective slip. 13 minutes later Klick votes Hoopla, and 20 minutes later Bellaphant votes her (3 votes). Two hours after that notscience votes her (4 votes). At the same time notscience votes her, Una votes her (5 votes). An hour and a half later Dunnstral votes her (6 votes) to put her at L-1. Notsci then relieves the pressure.

All 6 votes occurred my time between 3:30 AM and 7:30 AM. What happened? It couldn't have been an all-town wagon, could it? I didn't like Una's vote especially. The timing seems off. The wagon was gaining steam with 3 votes. Una had just two posts before (20 minutes timewise) placed a vote on Flippy. His vote on Hoopla was nearly simultaneous with Notscience's. It looks like a shady vote if Hoopla is town. Someone mentioned Dunnstral's L-1 vote being scummy. Was it though?

[notscience]

People keep saying there have been all town wagons this game when there really haven’t lol

[Galron]

VOTE: replacement

Jump in. The water's not exactly warm, but you get used to it.

yeah...I am going to have to ignore your votes for the rest of the day. you are here, there and everywhere.

This is just untrue. Your crown must be made of lead. Replacement for Sujimichi was just the second real vote of the day for me -- either you're not paying attention or you're blowing bubbles. And I don't think you're one not to pay attention.

[Galron]

People keep saying there have been all town wagons this game when there really haven’t lol

I see a few things in this game that are making it difficult. 1) the previous game y'all shared is biasing a lot of game play or at least causing a late reset in this one; 2) too many lurkers/late starters; 3) there are no obvtown or obvscum. We're halfway through Day 1, and we've had no super strong arguments on anyone.

[notscience]

I’m pretty obvtown

[Dunnstral]

Galron's posting has gotten a lot better from when he was still talking about ice cream and not doing anything; I like post 735

[Isis]

Unless this is a high calibre joke that's gone over my Kabuto.

There was a time when I thought "there will be a point in my life when I stop learning about the etymology of the original 152 because I know all of it" but that is definitely not true

[Bellaphant]

@dun, chill out. I did, in the rest of that post, talking about wagons. I didn't actually call you scum for it, and I was actually questioning Una's towniness in that statement, not yours. If you are town, atop being such a hedgehog.

@hoops...yes, I do expect you to do exactly that? Remembering things is only difficult if it was a made up comment, surely. Like....you declared a bobbins wagon town anf when I ask you to explain, you reply back with waffle about time travel??

[Bellaphant]

@galron, your poat about the wagon feels like info, not analysis - who's jump on that wagon feels scummy/badly positioned?

[Dunnstral]

Apart from the Bob 1 post weirdness (which like...could actually be scum distancing) he's voted me, which got up to a wagon of...3, and hoops, which got to e-2. How are these brave pushes?

Well, you're wrong or misrepresenting what has happened. Here are the votes I've made:

Spoiler:

VOTE: bob3141

Scummy posts

And mind you, everyone, I'm not a HUGE fan of "townblocs" in general, and I would be scolding Hoopla for this one as well (like I did last game :igmeou: ), but I think this is just how they play as town and they need it either for solving or entertainment purposes. :lol:
Me being a part of this bloc of Hoopla this time around is neither here nor there.

I WILL be calling out Hoopla if I smell scum on that bloc, but so far they have at least been more reserved with how they include people in.
And one good example of them doing better than what I was afraid of - notscience not being included in their latest townreads just because they have a "solid townread" on Hoopla.
I'm not saying they've outright become a scumread for me, but they are definitely teetering on the edge.. :igmeou:

^una steadfastly resisting the town bloc invitation.

okay

okay

, we get it. you're town. there's no need to convince us further with this coy display.

just relax and accept the rightful privilege afforded to the town bloc elite.

Or he's scum and doesn't want to seem overeager, which yields a similar reaction. You pointing this out made me a bit suspicious of him.

Looking over t heir iso more closely, doesn't it seem like he''s maneuvering in a way where he sets himself up to suspect a few people, or pivot to certain players, while calling others town, it feels manipulative to me.

Like in 153, and 287[/v] for his suspects

VOTE: UnaBombaH

let's get her

VOTE: Bellaphant

VOTE: Hoopla

B-1 (1 vote away from being Bumped-off)

to any concerned townies,

this is another thing i rarely mention about my play, but feel it may shed light on my actions.

being a dominant force in a game is a blessing and a curse. i try to use my influence as town in the most productive and +EV way as i can. it is hard to for town to see the fruits of my labour this early, but another useful byproduct that comes of it, is it forces literally every player to take a stance on me, or interact with me in some way. given i only know my own alignment as town on d1, i deduce everyone's alignment in relation to my own.

without getting to MD-theoretical, deliberate obfuscation and radically shifting the gamestate's flow is something i encourage to force scum to continually have to adjust, and quite often it shakes out some obvtowns in the process. if i am going to be unreadable anyhow, i may as well selfishly discombobulate the gamestate to better improve my reads. in my eyes, there is nothing to be lost here, and only gains information-wise.

~~

intuitively, i am highly suspicious of klick for the reason Sujimichi documented in 599;

I don't think I'm going to be able to accurately read Hoopla until like Day 3 at best. Until then, Hoopla is a consistently good influence on the gamestate and probably won't be getting executed today.

The current events are interesting given Klick's opinion here.

from my perspective, it is clear there was some opportunism in the early-mid part of my wagon. given klick appears to understand the purpose of my play, his vote is highly suspicious. occam's razor: is it more likely he actually thinks i am scum here, or is he seizing the moment when whispers of hoopla suspicion started floating about? i think the latter. and as a bonus moment of suspicion; calling for bellaphant to join the wagon in 536. isn't she your suspect?

i think klick is manipulating bellaphant turn-of-heart on his alignment to power this wagon, whereas if he is actually town, he would be wary of forming a coalition with a suspect.

i still townread bellaphant on tone, and partially find her town in relation to klick's scumminess. i think the interplay between one another has been too nuanced for them to be both scum together, so i am still townreading her and accept her vote, partially sad, yet also optimistic that she can see the light.

notscience's vote also seemed opportunistic and of all the players voting me, i'd like him to explain his vote. as recently as 518 notscience ruled me as town;

Gera, una (but I’m a little annoyed I’m going to have to argue against his scumread me all game again), klick, you (?), flippy

then he jumps on my wagon in 553, abandoning the dunnstral wagon (who he actually suspects!) to power mine. explain yourself notscience.

una is another vote i can kinda see as being OK - it is at least consistent with how his view on me has evolved throughout the game, and i am still townreading him. i mean, there has to be at least a couple of confused townies voting me; he is probably one of them.

the only two votes i haven't talked about has been the head of the wagon and the caboose; isis and dunnstral. neither ping me overtly one way or another. i see motivations either way.

isis has displayed a healthy/natural amount of paranoia for my slot that i usually come to expect from town players who have dealt with me in the past. i oftentimes find scum will just placate me or attack me in an over-the-top way without any subtlety (for those who read or were in mini 2146 see how pranadevil-scum treated me in that game). my intuition says isis is town based on that, though i think she is one the few personalities with enough verve to take me on as scum head-to-head d1.

as for dunnstral, i am still learning more about him and can go either way on his L-1 vote. its brazen, but it is also in keeping earlier suspicion he expressed on my slot. its brazenness i'd usually consider slightly-town, but in this case see it as more in keeping with character than anything else.

~~

shockingly, i am most suspect of klick's/notscience's votes of me. i really hope the town isn't up against one or both of them as scum as we may be in trouble (especially if i am executed and not around to put them in place).

my dunnstral-vote was an attempt to find common ground with notscience and find out more information about dunnstral's slot, but given i actually have some genuine suspicions now, it's time to move on;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: klick

if i have time today, i'll cover some townreads and some PoE stuff. but felt it was more important to talk about my wagon first.

So you finally explained why you were voting me. You know I knew bob's post history when I said 'scummy posts', I didn't just throw that out there and never check their posts.

Can you stop acting like you're the big kid on the block and this dominant force? That only applies within your pre-arrenged group that all seemed to join this game together

Disagree on the reasoning for scumreading Klick. It's day 1, scum are more likely to adhere to a strict 'I think this person is mafia, so I won't vote with them' policy than town are. To an extent scum bus/you can be wrong on certain reads and that's not a reason to not vote certain people on day 1

Notscience shows this negative tell where right after I join the wagon is icky and they have to jump off it
I think they've had a lot of bad reactions to events this game in fact, so I'm fine with seeing them becoming not alive
VOTE: notscience

I'm lightly scumreading popopopo right now; not a lot to go on, and it's not related to any of my other reads. They kind of suck this game.

VOTE: popopopopopopo

VOTE: notscience

bad faith argument

bob3141 -> UnaBombaH -> Bellaphant -> Hoopla -> notscience -> popopopopopopo -> notscience

[Dunnstral]

And Hoopla got to E-1

[Isis]

If you haven't already, could you elaborate on the last one, Isis? I would think your given logic would make Klick more likely scum than town.

The wagon on Klick wasn't heavily supported by cases and reasoning. I think scum would be less likely to get involved with a wagon that didn't look good.
The trend that Klick is pointing at similarly indicates that he's getting voted by townies on their B-game rather than townies on their A-Game which makes it less likely to be a winwagon than one full of townies on their A-game. Admittedly that's still going to be a better wagon than one full of scum, but it's hard to explain the frame of reference you're using as you go I guess - all wagons are more likely to be on town than scum and my "big picture take" is a bunch of townies that don't feel confident do a weak job rebutting that presumption.

[Isis]

It also comes right after Gera suspects you - and for meta reasons no less.

bob is infamous for an omgus bias, unfortunately

[Isis]

Can you explain why you thought those slots were town? Like, I was literally only strongly town reading Una there....

so,

you are asking me to time travel,


embody a previous version of myself,



just so i can relay to you a grainy snapshot of a moment long since passed?

This is such a scummy post good grief

especially since this is an exercise that is 100% more difficult when you roll scum

Please move votes back to the mafiosi.

[Isis]

Dunnstral "bus" Hoopla so I can clear you pls

[Bellaphant]

Dun, I know? I corrected myself in the next post. Are you making a point or just being pointlessly negative? Coz I can engage with a point....

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral "bus" Hoopla so I can clear you pls

Spoiler:

[Dunnstral]

Dun, I know? I corrected myself in the next post. Are you making a point or just being pointlessly negative? Coz I can engage with a point....

You said it was demonstrably false; it's not