Mini Normal 2153: Post-game

[Isis]

Klick why do you keep making scummy posts

[notscience]

Yeah, makes sense.

Still just, like ugh.

It’s like I want to Lynch hoops but it feels way too easy and way too fast

[notscience]

I don’t really think it’s a scummy post

[Klick]

Klick why do you keep making scummy posts

I thought you said I stopped doing that

[Galron]

Why is everyone voting for Hoopla if she isn't scummy?

[Dunnstral]

Why is everyone voting for Hoopla if she isn't scummy?

I have a theory

[Galron]

Exactly

[Replacement for Sujimichi]

If you haven't already, could you elaborate on the last one, Isis? I would think your given logic would make Klick more likely scum than town.

The wagon on Klick wasn't heavily supported by cases and reasoning. I think scum would be less likely to get involved with a wagon that didn't look good.
The trend that Klick is pointing at similarly indicates that he's getting voted by townies on their B-game rather than townies on their A-Game which makes it less likely to be a winwagon than one full of townies on their A-game. Admittedly that's still going to be a better wagon than one full of scum, but it's hard to explain the frame of reference you're using as you go I guess - all wagons are more likely to be on town than scum and my "big picture take" is a bunch of townies that don't feel confident do a weak job rebutting that presumption.

Interesting, your logic is a lot more complicated than what I had in mind. I thought Klick being called scummy but not wagoned increased his chances of being scum, since scum aren't going to start a wagon on each other (most of the time).

[Replacement for Sujimichi]

It also comes right after Gera suspects you - and for meta reasons no less.

bob is infamous for an omgus bias, unfortunately

What reasons does he use normally when he OMGUSes? Is it simply a "I scumread you because you scumread me and you're wrong", or does he find other reasons to support that? The OMGUS itself is NAI if you're telling me he does it as either alignment, but the reasons he uses to support it may still be scum-indicative.

[Replacement for Sujimichi]

I think a claim from hoopla would be good given all the people that scumread her.






I will hammer if you claim VT, hoopla.

[geraintm]

quickly poking my head in.

I hate the expectation of claims like this. It doesn't help town ever having a claim this late.

[Isis]

It also comes right after Gera suspects you - and for meta reasons no less.

bob is infamous for an omgus bias, unfortunately

What reasons does he use normally when he OMGUSes? Is it simply a "I scumread you because you scumread me and you're wrong", or does he find other reasons to support that? The OMGUS itself is NAI if you're telling me he does it as either alignment, but the reasons he uses to support it may still be scum-indicative.

It's often pretty stretchy reasons and it does make him hard to read.

[bob3141]

Day still has 7 days. We shouldnt be think of ending this day phase now.

[bob3141]

It also comes right after Gera suspects you - and for meta reasons no less.

bob is infamous for an omgus bias, unfortunately

What reasons does he use normally when he OMGUSes? Is it simply a "I scumread you because you scumread me and you're wrong", or does he find other reasons to support that? The OMGUS itself is NAI if you're telling me he does it as either alignment, but the reasons he uses to support it may still be scum-indicative.

It's often pretty stretchy reasons and it does make him hard to read.

Best way to figure out if there town simply being very wrong. Or scum trying to fake a scum read. In the past some have even become my strongest town reads.

[Bellaphant]

Day still has 7 days. We shouldnt be think of ending this day phase now.

Just FYI, I strongly disagree with this. Why would anyone drag on the phase of a game that has the least info? Like, ideal day one is 25-40 pages.

Also, people are scum reading hoops because she said repeatedly scummy things and then acted like justifying her own thoughts was a radical concept in a game that's designed about that.

[UnaBombaH]

@galron, your poat about the wagon feels like info, not analysis - who's jump on that wagon feels scummy/badly positioned?

Una's.

Wait a minute - based on what? You preflip associating?
I now have nasty feeling about this wagon with Galron dropping posts like this, and then joining the wagon anyway..

[Galron]

@galron, your poat about the wagon feels like info, not analysis - who's jump on that wagon feels scummy/badly positioned?

Una's.

Wait a minute - based on what? You preflip associating?
I now have nasty feeling about this wagon with Galron dropping posts like this, and then joining the wagon anyway..

If you look at 732, you'll see why I don't like the way you voted. I don't mind the vote itself -- I just don't like the way it was done. All told, I'm not a huge fan of this lynch as it stands, but Hoopla is scummy, and we really need information.

[Bellaphant]

@mod, can emporer get a prod?

[Klick]

That was a great catchup I truly feel like I know where you stand on the game bob

mostly from what ive seen. That una is whiteknighting. He is pushign a town read on me without realy explaining. Something scum do if they dont want to push a lynch but are not against it forming.

See how he keeps sayign i dont want bob, bob is a mislynch ect

But not once says a reason as to why he thinks that. Town come up with reasosn as they want to stop mislynches. Scum dont want to provide town with a reason not to vote that player. As thats against their wincon.




When i read his posts it just feels like im reading a newspaper.

Do you actually think you were in any amount of danger Bob?

[Klick]

I am getting vague town feelings off of Bob on page 25/26. It feels like he's speaking his mind a bit.

[Klick]

as a quick observation: the rapid acceleration of my wagon (when the possibility of a hoopla-wagon was wafting through the air) should give the town a clue as to my alignment.

You go on to cite myself and notty as the two most likely suspects on your wagon. I largely began the call to wagon you (although Isis voted you first), and notty hopped on towards the end but specifically has made the same observation as you here that your wagon took off fast, and has been the most hesitant to continue on with your wagon.

So how does this stand as reasoning from your point of view? What scum caused the wagon to rapidly accelerate? Because if it was town that caused it, that has no bearing on your alignment.

[Klick]

Here are my sources:

[...]

This is amidst you calling me town sporadically so it's pretty weird

I mean, up to this quote I think your game has been pretty anti-town regardless of your alignment. I lean town on you, but I'm not super confident and if you were wagoned today I wouldn't be that upset. I don't think the things you're doing are inherently scummy but I can see why others would think so.

[Dunnstral]

What if I just, WHAM, hammered Hoopla?

[Klick]

this was an influential reason in why i powered and sat on the geraintm wagon as much as i did. he was a classic candidate of scum finding a vote acceptable enough to be unchallenged, then sitting on it without much reevaluation. it takes effort to be constantly reevaluating the gamestate as scum and to find convincing reasons for your opinions to change. this is why we see scum sit on hivemind-approved votes longer than town, as switching votes incurs the risk of receiving additional attention/critique of your play.

players like klick and notscience seem vote-hoppy-happy anyhow, so i don't extend the tell to capable, aware players like them, but i suspect this tell is meaningful for a player like geraintm and why i still suspect him.

Geraintm explicitly stated rather early on that he didn't like it when people hopped around with their votes. I get this as a tell that works generally, but when applied specifically to geraintm it doesn't hold much water.

PEdit: I'd be pretty fine with that lmao

[Isis]

She hasn't claimed, you're better than that Dunnstral