Newbie 2018: Ferrets [GAME OVER]


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Post Post #225 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:34 am

Post by SJReaver »

In post 222, beeboy wrote:It's my boi midway.
He did doubt my Townie-ness, so he is likely a rogue and a villain. The type of man who coughs in his hand and doesn't wash it afterward or orders pineapple on pizza.

By why do you think he might be suspect?
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Post Post #226 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:35 am

Post by clidd »

In post 145, midwaybear wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 6, GuiltyLion wrote:Looking forward to a fun game with everyone! :]

VOTE: SJReaver
In post 9, GuiltyLion wrote:VOTE: Pearofcubs
I find this sequence town-indicative towards GuiltyLion because it reads to me like something done to promote discussion. SJReaver had just posted, so it may have been done to try to get him to engage. I don't really see any scum-motivation for this, so could GuiltyLion be town 9 posts in :eek:

mujie seems a little scummy to me from . I think SJReaver's question on scumhunting was addressed to GuiltyLion, so it seems like mujie was looking for a way to pocket or gain favor with SJReaver.
In post 20, mujie wrote:Thinking about it that way, it’s definitely a possibility that SJ is maf, but I’m not yet ready to vote for him
Are you scumreading SJ just because he wrote a detailed post?
In post 21, clidd wrote:which is in conflict with another impression that says you are not a newbie and you already owned/has a forum account (which implies that you are a secret alt).
I feel like clidd could be town based on this. It's mostly just gut, and I don't want to be conf-biasing myself into an unwarrented townread but I just don't think clidd takes this stance as scum.
In post 27, SJReaver wrote:You don't know how happy it makes me that you think I might be an alt.
This is a sort of deflection which I don't like, but he proceeds to answer clidd's intended question. Meh
In post 34, SJReaver wrote:Mujie is an interesting guy. He feels very trustworthy to me.

Gives me a strong townie vibe, what about you?
Seems like the pocket worked :)

I don't really understand mujie's vote on SJReaver and it is suspicious to me because people were calling him out for buddying with him.

clidd, so you are townreading SJReaver because you think mafia would be more opportunistic in casting doubt on his claim? But that argument falls apart if he is mafia.
In post 64, mujie wrote:The second reason I was hesitant to vote was because people had accused me of buddying up, so if I was maf, I’d vote for SJ to dodge those accusations. Once I decided I’d rather do what I think is right than what might be seen as suspicious, I made up my mind to vote.
Ok? But WHY do you scumread SJ? I don't really get the progression and it seems like a weird backtrack.
In post 72, GuiltyLion wrote:clidd you really gotta make your posts less wordy my dude

I try to start reading these sentences and they have so many unnecessary clauses that my eyes glaze over within seconds
Thinking the same thing.
In post 70, clidd wrote:The tonality of his posts seems to me more relaxed, with the absence of apprehension that a scum mentality with a cognitive load would have.
He legit admitted that he thought voting SJ would make him look scummy which seems self conscious to me.
In post 87, Ydrasse wrote:oh. i... read it as an interpretation to mine LMFAO.

okay. okay. i am going to pretend this never happened.

p-edit: is there a particular reason why you think clidd should stop posting so much?
ydrasse caught! I also thought clidd wasn't answering her question, so I believe she doesn't really care about the answers she is recieving and is just asking questions to look townie.

I don't get the GuiltyLion votes...
In post 103, Pearofclubs wrote:possible early attempt at buddying up with SJ.
In post 103, Pearofclubs wrote:Little things like these contradictions and minor inconsistencies his posts, and defensively predicting people scumreading him for doing something (right as he does that something) are at the moment the most suspicious behavior that I'm seeing.
Basically my case on mujie.
In post 105, Pearofclubs wrote:I'm not sure I understand your votes. Did I miss something about Guiltylion? I'm gonna have to reread his posts.
Wow even more mindmelding. I guess Pearofclubs is town!

Hm I sorta want to townread mujie for . He talks about "not wanting to give mafia ideas", and while I believe discussion is pro-town I also believe that he was genuine in believing that and it wasn't just some way to dodge the question. Now, I can sorta see what clidd was saying and I think it's just that mujie approaches the game differently.

Ydrasse, I can totally see Pearofclubs being hesitant town.

Ok, I think I'm mostly caught up. Will be trying to be more interactive now. I think mujie and GuiltyLion are both town, and that is the extent of my confident reads. I don't like SJ's push on GuiltyLion regarding being "quiet", and I'm not sure whether that comes from scum or town. It's a bad faith push for me right now. I think some pressure will help sort things out
VOTE: SJReaver
Apparently my vision skipped this post, where you commented about me inside the spoiler. Why didn't you quote it when I questioned your lack of interaction with me ?

Image

Pedit:

Two wagons with three votes implies scum movement to pressure a specific wagon of interest. It is possible that both are town, I do not speculate with such vigor the existence of scum being voted in this scenario. It's the kind of situation that I can imagine forming naturally.

Three wagons with two votes implies more vehemently a discrepancy of ideas about who is scum that does not sound natural, therefore, in my view, it encompasses both the possibility of 2 scums being voted as 1 scum being voted, more likely than the scenario above.

Pedit²:

Noted, good observation.

I will analyze the use of these emotes separately.
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Post Post #227 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:37 am

Post by clidd »

In this case, Midway, specifically, I find one scum being voted more plausible than two in the trio dynamic.
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Post Post #228 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:47 am

Post by clidd »

Also, the logic, in this context, is that as I see SJ as town, the scenario of 2 scums being voted out of three would imply Lion + Pear, which is a partnership that I have difficult to idealize, as it makes little sense, especially with three null players in my impressions.

By extension, I'm speculating indirectly (Lion or Pear) + (Pool of nulls) as the scum team, but I don't intend to waste time on pre-flip associations, so I want to solve the first parenthesis today.
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Post Post #229 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:54 am

Post by clidd »

In post 227, clidd wrote:In this case, Midway, specifically, I find one scum being voted more plausible than two in the trio dynamic.
I'm directing the response to Midway, without including him in the dynamic (in case it was confuse to someone).
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Post Post #230 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:00 am

Post by clidd »

That's all.

I will be back later.
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Post Post #231 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:15 am

Post by SJReaver »

Image

Ydrasse, I don’t like you.

You read as null to me. You read as null to everyone despite consistently posting. You don’t dominate the conversation but you do participate. Nothing you say or do specifically stands out. You’re good at keeping attention away from yourself by making non-contentious statements.

If this were a non-normal game, I’d think you were a Serial Killer or Survivor.

I want to know what is going on here.
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Post Post #232 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:43 am

Post by midwaybear »

In post 226, clidd wrote:Apparently my vision skipped this post, where you commented about me inside the spoiler. Why didn't you quote it when I questioned your lack of interaction with me ?
I did in .
In post 225, SJReaver wrote:He did doubt my Townie-ness, so he is likely a rogue and a villain. The type of man who coughs in his hand and doesn't wash it afterward or orders pineapple on pizza.
This is OMGUS.
In post 231, SJReaver wrote:Ydrasse, I don’t like you.

You read as null to me. You read as null to everyone despite consistently posting. You don’t dominate the conversation but you do participate. Nothing you say or do specifically stands out. You’re good at keeping attention away from yourself by making non-contentious statements.
This isn't really true because she is townread by some people. It sorta reads to me like you are making up reasons to scumread her.
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Post Post #233 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:58 am

Post by Umlaut »

Vote Count 1.4
Image


GuiltyLion
(2): ,
SJReaver
(2): ,
Pearofclubs
(1):
mujie
(1):
midwaybear
(1):

Not voting
(2): WaltertheDunce10,

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Deadline:
(expired on 2020-07-19 22:19:00)
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Post Post #234 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:42 am

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In post 231, SJReaver wrote:Image

Ydrasse, I don’t like you.

You read as null to me. You read as null to everyone despite consistently posting. You don’t dominate the conversation but you do participate. Nothing you say or do specifically stands out. You’re good at keeping attention away from yourself by making non-contentious statements.

If this were a non-normal game, I’d think you were a Serial Killer or Survivor.

I want to know what is going on here.
this is the second time that you've referred to me as deflecting attention away from myself, the first being in . is there any post(s) in particular that have made you feel this way? because i would say that while i am perhaps non-contentious in the sense i am not aggressive about my pushes, i've been making the efforts to do so; mujie, while being closer to the start of the game being one and a vote on pearofclubs being another.

it might just be that this is my playstyle, and that i'm not a particularly Loud voice at times. i offer my input where i feel it works, push where i need to, blah blah. i'm not really worried about changing it up for the sake of being more ~memorable though.

midway is right though that it's a bit of a sweeping statement to say i'm null to everyone. i'm generally in the lower rungs of town reads i'd say which... is pretty average to how i'm considered in all the games i've played so far.
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Post Post #235 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:44 am

Post by Ydrasse »

also, clidd, why haven't you voted yet...? you have suspicions but you've yet to really apply pressure to anyone yet beyond questioning and reading through people. i'd say that you having a a scumpool of two to work through right now would probably benefit from voting one of them.
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Post Post #236 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:48 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 216, SJReaver wrote:GuiltyLion, anger is an effective smokescreen. Having someone blow up at me makes me want to back away. You bringing up your real-life and acting as though I've deeply offended you seems unnecessary.
look, it probably was unnecessary, I was in a bad mood at points yesterday but people shading me for activity is a serious sore spot for me. IMO questioning whether someone is playing the game is a low blow, especially when they
are
playing and it's unwarranted, which I felt yours was for all the reasons I already stated. I promise you I'm not faking anger to try to get people off my back as a scum move, I just resent feeling like I'm supposed to be babysitting the game constantly in order to 'prove' my towniness, that's not what I sign up for. And when someone says I'm 'quiet' within the first day of the game starting that indicates quite strongly to me what kinda standards they're imposing on me. and then to dodge my question and act like you didn't say I was quiet kinda set me off.

you still haven't answered why you said I was quiet. Can you at least validate me that you can understand that I do not believe I was being quiet, that this was a questionable way to frame my play?
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Post Post #237 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:44 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 219, clidd wrote:1- In post 37, you, like me and Ydrasse, made a visual error when referring to a post that was out of the context of post 25, which was 13 instead of 16. But now speaking, in fact, from post 16, what is your impression of the question inserted in it ? normal, strange or not very useful ?

2- Post 97, there is a conflict between you and SJ, precisely because of what SJ hinted in post 95, about your activity. Something I didn't really understand in this context was the need for you to insert a visual resource that supported your argument, considering that just citing a public number of your posts would be enough. Have there been any situations in past games where a scum player made a derogatory remark about you that bothered you ? if not, why didn't you act in a simpler way in relation to this, considering that you would, hypothetically, have the reason in this clash ?

3- In summary, what are your general reads ? (no order/readlist, just describe it in your words).

4- The tonalities in posts 132, 141, 142, 143, 184 indicate a certain trend in relation to the development that you, theoretically, would be giving to read on SJ based on the responses (which I imagine would be negative). Why didn't a vote take place on him ?

5- In your interactions with midway, you do not get to comment on my dialogue with him, in which I indicate that he was ignoring me in a scenario where he, normally, should be talking to me. Is there any value, in your opinion, for a deviation from the standard behavior that I was imagining that midway would adopt ? can he be doing the exact opposite that I imagine he would do in relation to my slot be interpreted as an AI thing ?
1 - I think is a good, normal question, I don't think it speaks much about your alignment since that's an easy question to ask as scum, but it's something I appreciate being raised and pressuring mujie on.

2 - I feel like y'all are acting like it takes substantial effort to take a screenshot and put it on imgur. it took me less than a minute and I wanted to do it to make the point with flair. Plus it does have the benefit of being definitive proof that I was among the most active players in the game so far.

Honestly I feel like I remember similarly being tilted when being accused of activity tells, but I did a brief self search and couldn't find great examples.

Here's a time when scum pulled that on me, I called them out and defended myself in much the same way, but was definitely more calm.

Here's another time when I was accused of low activity, but I was in a good mood and didn't take the bait here either. Note again though that I did ask pretty much the same question as I asked to SJReaver, wanting an explanation for what I was 'supposed' to be commenting on or doing that I supposedly hadn't.

also, for consideration, here's a couple times how I have responded
as scum
when someone made a similar accusation. In this newbie game here - click me - I was more toned down and guarded, because I think good scum play is to emit naturally calm/cool vibes and not give people excuses to vote you.

here's another newbie game where I was scum - click me - and responded in a much more mellow way.

so idk, I think I was just amped up earlier, but I would note that my response in defending myself and asking for an explanation of why I was accused of being quiet/not commenting on things matches earlier times I've similarly been accused as town.

3 - I think you, Ydrasse, and Mujie are very likely town. I think SJReaver and Pearofclubs are
probably
town - no interest in voting there today but if I'm wrong on my scumreads elsewhere I could see myself being wrong on them and revisiting it later in the game. I scumread midwaybear and I don't have feelings either way on bebop or Walter, I don't think they've given anything indicative yet to work with.

4 - I've been trying to make sure I don't let frustration with SJReaver cloud my interpretation of what she's doing. I still think she misrepped me by saying I was quiet, and if she's competent scum then the bravado is a neat trick to sound townie, but at the same time I can imagine a town!SJR thinking my response was over the top and being suspicious. I also think midway bear's commentary on our clash and SJR's response to it makes her spewed town if midwaybear is mafia.

5 - I'm not sure I follow this question - I think you're asking me if I agree with you that him ignoring you might be AI? I don't know your history with midwaybear so I don't have expectations of how he should/would play, but I definitely suspect him for the angles he's taken on me vs SJR and if you feel he's vibing differently than you would expect him to as town then I encourage you to vote him with me.
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Post Post #238 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:47 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 220, clidd wrote:I am inclined to think that Lion and Pear do not share the same alignment for VCA issues.
Can you explain to me why you do not think we can both be town
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Post Post #239 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:49 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 231, SJReaver wrote:You read as null to everyone despite consistently posting.
For someone who says I'm 'quiet' and questioning my alignment based on emotes (seriously??) you aren't reading my posts apparently
In post 114, GuiltyLion wrote:I just had a game finish with scum!Ydrasse and her posting in this game feels a lot more organic and focused to me, as scum she would pretend to be sorting a ton of different slots all at once and shotgun questions to everybody whereas here I think she's genuinely chasing leads. I agree with her read on mujie's latest reply as well.
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Post Post #240 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:52 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

Ydrasse are you still feeling Pearofclubs as scum? I kinda townread their replies to our votes and I think midway stands out as more scummy now
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Post Post #241 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:30 am

Post by mujie »

Sorry for the late reply, I was asleep for most and then I had to revise.

On SJ's answer to my question: I'm satisfied with your answer. It looks like you asked Guilty not trying to accuse him of being scum, but simply being curious. Lion's reaction was quite strong, but from the posts he linked, and being asked about it multiple times, I can understand his frustration about being asked again, and while at first glance it seems to be an overreaction, the history makes it, in my opinion, an understandable response.
In post 147, SJReaver wrote:You mentioned meta. I think it's generally considered okay to go through a person's previous posts to get a feel for them.
I get that. I have nothing against people who will check someone's previous posts for information. It's a part of the game. For me, I think I'll only check it if someone links to a past post, and therefore makes it a part of the game. That's just me though.

I originally found #130 odd, as it was a huge departure from the tone of your other posts. Looking at #225 though, I think that was less of a heel faced turn for you and more for the character you're playing. Which makes things more difficult as "Hey, is it a slip or is it a part of the character?" Which would actually be a very clever way of obscuring the truth if you were Mafia. Props to you if that's the case.

But: There were two main concerns I had about SJReaver. One was his vote on Lion. I've addressed that. Second was his original post.
To answer the question, yes, it was because of the claim post originally, but no not because of the claim itself.

My main concern was that the post couldn't have been written in the time since the postings opened. The post was pre-prepared. It could have been either a Mafia pre-preparing because of the pressure of not getting caught or an eager roleplayer who couldn't wait for posting to start to get started. Looking at his posts, and how he's stayed in character, specifically at posts #130 and #225, even though it can make him seem scummier, leads me to believe that it's actually the latter. Of course, there's always the possibility that he's just an extremely smart Mafia, but there's no concrete evidence for that, just possibilities. Circumstantial. Which is to say, due to my 2 main concerns being alleviated for now, and pending questioning of Beeboy, my reading of SJ has gone from scum to Null.
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Post Post #242 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:31 am

Post by mujie »

Oops! I pressed submit too early and I don't think it's right to edit posts on here.

UNVOTE: SJReaper

Expect another post in a bit.
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Post Post #243 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:51 am

Post by midwaybear »

In post 241, mujie wrote:pending questioning of Beeboy, my reading of SJ has gone from scum to Null.
Are you saying your read on SJ depends on beeboy?
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Post Post #244 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:53 am

Post by SJReaver »

In post 232, midwaybear wrote: This isn't really true because she is townread by some people. It sorta reads to me like you are making up reasons to scumread her.
She hasn't given me any good reasons. What do you expect me to do?

Midway, I'm going to remind you that the role of a townie is to try to uncover scum. Not letting Ydassa post once before rushing to her defense lessens the value of my engaging her.
In post 234, Ydrasse wrote: this is the second time that you've referred to me as deflecting attention away from myself, the first being in . is there any post(s) in particular that have made you feel this way? because i would say that while i am perhaps non-contentious in the sense i am not aggressive about my pushes, i've been making the efforts to do so; mujie, while being closer to the start of the game being one and a vote on pearofclubs being another.

it might just be that this is my playstyle, and that i'm not a particularly Loud voice at times. i offer my input where i feel it works, push where i need to, blah blah. i'm not really worried about changing it up for the sake of being more ~memorable though.

midway is right though that it's a bit of a sweeping statement to say i'm null to everyone. i'm generally in the lower rungs of town reads i'd say which... is pretty average to how i'm considered in all the games i've played so far.
Man, trying to read you is like trying to box with tofu. How do you do that?
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Post Post #245 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:57 am

Post by SJReaver »

In post 239, GuiltyLion wrote: For someone who says I'm 'quiet' and questioning my alignment based on emotes (seriously??) you aren't reading my posts apparently
No, I read that.
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Post Post #246 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:02 pm

Post by SJReaver »

In post 236, GuiltyLion wrote: you still haven't answered why you said I was quiet.
214

"I don't remember why I asked that specific question.

It and the following post was an attempt to get to know you. If anything, the one asking about you reading all of clidd's post seems more accusatory to me."
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Post Post #247 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:29 pm

Post by mujie »

@Clidd: Looking back at your clarification on the question, I think I misread it. I thought you were asking for a long-term plan, but you were asking what would I do with the longer time. Thankfully, I think that even though I misunderstood what you wanted, in a roundabout way, I actually didn't completely miss the question? The universe man. It's sometimes good.

Here's the curious thing though. And it only came to me a bit ago. Genuinely, how would it have helped you? In the game I was Mafia in, (I don't know if I had originally said it was a newbie game, but it turns out that was just my memory playing tricks on me, and it was an open game.) I hadn't stayed too long (although it looks like I stayed longer than I thought I did), and it was, oh my god, it was 7 years ago. But had I answered your question fully, if I was Mafia, I would've just lied. And if you had found it contradictory to how I played, I could have easily just said it was due to the 7 year gap. So, I am curious what you hoped to achieve with it.
In post 243, midwaybear wrote:
In post 241, mujie wrote:pending questioning of Beeboy, my reading of SJ has gone from scum to Null.
Are you saying your read on SJ depends on beeboy?
Possibly. If you look at #101 Beeboy voted for SJ's vote without explanation apart from he likes SJ's energy. (Sorry if I'm getting genders wrong btw. Make sure to correct me if I' wrong). So, if when Beeboy eventually replies, he says something that might incriminate SJ.

That said, originally my thinking was that Beeboy was SJ's mafia buddy, but if that were the case, why would he vote with SJ. In that case, voting with his partner's choice would be the worst thing you could possibly do. Thanks for getting me to think about it properly Bear. There's a chance Beeboy is playing some extreme mind games, but the stronger likelihood is that if Beeboy is scum, SJ is probably town. So, with that said

VOTE: Beeboy

I think Lion getting offended is less about the game and more a feeling of being personally attacked. Lion was clearly pretty hurt about being accused of not posting a lot. Lion, I don't think SJ meant to offend you, she was simply curious and the rest of it was just her playing the game. I can't tell if the anger is genuine or a part of the character. For both your sakes, I think you should try to call a truce (when it comes to personal matters at least).

I've said before, but I don't read Pear as jumping on bandwagons and stuff, I think he genuinely was analysing the posts himself.

I'm tired and I don't have time to re-read Midway's posts to get a read on him though, so I'll do that tomorrow.

In terms of my scumchart:

Beeboy is a mild-moderate scumread, increased by the fact that he hasn't answered the question of why he really voted Guilty yet.
Clidd is a mild scumread.

Lion and SJ are true neutral because of the reasons I've stated earlier.

Pear's null cause I don't think he's scum, but I haven't seen enough to definitively call him town.
Midway and Ydrasse I'll re-read their posts tomorrow and figure out what I make of them.
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Post Post #248 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:38 pm

Post by clidd »

In post 232, midwaybear wrote:
In post 226, clidd wrote:Apparently my vision skipped this post, where you commented about me inside the spoiler. Why didn't you quote it when I questioned your lack of interaction with me ?
I did in .
In post 225, SJReaver wrote:He did doubt my Townie-ness, so he is likely a rogue and a villain. The type of man who coughs in his hand and doesn't wash it afterward or orders pineapple on pizza.
This is OMGUS.
In post 231, SJReaver wrote:Ydrasse, I don’t like you.

You read as null to me. You read as null to everyone despite consistently posting. You don’t dominate the conversation but you do participate. Nothing you say or do specifically stands out. You’re good at keeping attention away from yourself by making non-contentious statements.
This isn't really true because she is townread by some people. It sorta reads to me like you are making up reasons to scumread her.
Got it. You compressed the quote a lot in post 178, so I thought the post was that size, when in reality, it was much bigger.

Ok, thanks, anyway.
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Post Post #249 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:39 pm

Post by clidd »

In post 235, Ydrasse wrote:also, clidd, why haven't you voted yet...? you have suspicions but you've yet to really apply pressure to anyone yet beyond questioning and reading through people. i'd say that you having a a scumpool of two to work through right now would probably benefit from voting one of them.
I have a mental vote on Lion, as mentioned in post .
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