Newbie 2014: Aesthetic | Game Over

[Micc]

I’d say that’s just a small part of the overall picture. I was leaning this direction base on interactions Day 3 and my reading of day 2. I also spent some time looking at Day 1 over the night phase and agreed with the consensus that brassherald looked pretty bad on that wagon. Also Mikul’s most concrete read from end of day 3 is TL town, so basically there’s a bunch of things that come together to make me think it’s you.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d say that’s just a small part of the overall picture. I was leaning this direction base on interactions Day 3 and my reading of day 2. I also spent some time looking at Day 1 over the night phase and agreed with the consensus that brassherald looked pretty bad on that wagon. Also Mikul’s most concrete read from end of day 3 is TL town, so basically there’s a bunch of things that come together to make me think it’s you.

Are you even looking at my slot though? Like... you seriously think I am more Scummy than Tl based on D3? Somehow that doesn't feel right.

[Micc]

Yeah. I feel like all of the suspicion of the TL you’ve given since I replaced in has been purposed towards keeping options open for you. The things you’ve pushed don’t feel alignment indicative to me, more like throwing shade instead. Meanwhile you had this case against votato that you felt strongly about that has been almost entirely set aside.

And there’s also other things in that paragraph besides my talking about day 3. So even that response kinda feels like you’re shading or discrediting me.

I guess my question here is, who do you intend to vote for? If we’re cross voting, I don’t really care to engage with you any more. If you’re voting TL or even not sure yet I don’t have a problem engaging. But I don’t want it to be the kind of engagement where I give my thoughts and you tell me they are bad.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah. I feel like all of the suspicion of the TL you’ve given since I replaced in has been purposed towards keeping options open for you. The things you’ve pushed don’t feel alignment indicative to me, more like throwing shade instead. Meanwhile you had this case against votato that you felt strongly about that has been almost entirely set aside.

It's called reevaluating. I can change my mind. It actually shows I'm Town since it's more likely that people change their mind as Town.

And there’s also other things in that paragraph besides my talking about day 3. So even that response kinda feels like you’re shading or discrediting me.

Yeah, but the rest of your arguments hing on that. That's why I talked about that and not everything else.

I guess my question here is, who do you intend to vote for? If we’re cross voting, I don’t really care to engage with you any more. If you’re voting TL or even not sure yet I don’t have a problem engaging. But I don’t want it to be the kind of engagement where I give my thoughts and you tell me they are bad.

What gives you the idea I will say your "ideas are bad"? Not sure what you are accusing me of here.

I don't know who I am going to vote for yet.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like... How can I control how you see my pred? I can't really do anything about that. The only thing I can attack is what you said about my play.

[Town looter]

Hey guys. Won’t be able to post much today. Have family in town so won’t be able to contribute today. I’ll try to read on phone when I have a chance. Lurky lurky.

[Town looter]

Briefly where I am at (phone post so apologies in advance): leaning Micc as scum. While I initially agreed with votato about LQ posting differently, they have reverted to norm (from a very brief skim of their other threads). Also I think getting on me when there was an opportunity to pile on Micc is indicative of town behaviour. And in this scenario it makes sense for Micc trying to pocket me using LQs odd misrepresentation - which for the record, could be AI, but could also be due to LQs style and trying to apply pressure, so nullish for me.

It’s not 100% thou. LQ

has

been making a pretty weird argument by focussing on the micro of my behaviour (which is will tend to always make someone like me look scummy, as I tend to summarise thoughts rather than be very detailed, which leads to micro inconsistencies). And there is good scum motivation to target me given I am probably an easier target than a town!Micc.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ has been making a pretty weird argument

Yeah, if I do that, it usually means I'm Town. I generally have better reasons as Scum.

I know self meta is Scummy, but you can check this for yourself or I can link games for you.

[Town looter]

This went quiet.

[LicketyQuickety]

This went quiet.

Well, I probably lost at this point. I tried my best but it looks like I'm dead at this point. Micc is basically saying he doesn't want to engage with me and you think Micc is Town so...

[Town looter]

Huh? Seems to be a miscommunication as my understanding is we have a circle of SRing going on:

LQ SRing TL > TL SRing Micc > Micc SRing LQ

My previous post was probably a bit all over the place, but what I was trying to say is you are probably town, and Micc probably scum. I am, currently, buying your argument about sounding scummy, but actually being town (obviously not just based on you word lol).

Micc on the other hand doesn't feel all that genuine. The interaction with Nash seemed a little forced, for one, but I want to go back and see if there is anything else.

[Town looter]

Like... How can I control how you see my pred? I can't really do anything about that. The only thing I can attack is what you said about my play.

What does pred mean?

[Town looter]

Anthony has just basically not been here. How many posts do they have? I feel like VT might replace out.

PR hunting. this is a scum mindset

I never PR hunt - even as Scum. I am literally PR blind. We've had this conversation before.

Also what do you mean you are PR blind?

[LicketyQuickety]

Huh? Seems to be a miscommunication as my understanding is we have a circle of SRing going on:

LQ SRing TL > TL SRing Micc > Micc SRing LQ

My previous post was probably a bit all over the place, but what I was trying to say is you are probably town, and Micc probably scum. I am, currently, buying your argument about sounding scummy, but actually being town (obviously not just based on you word lol).

Micc on the other hand doesn't feel all that genuine. The interaction with Nash seemed a little forced, for one, but I want to go back and see if there is anything else.

There was a post you made that had me thinking you were switching over to me. I can try and find it if you want, but I thought it was fairly clear.

Like... How can I control how you see my pred? I can't really do anything about that. The only thing I can attack is what you said about my play.

What does pred mean?

Predecessor. Previous player that was in my slot.

Anthony has just basically not been here. How many posts do they have? I feel like VT might replace out.

PR hunting. this is a scum mindset

I never PR hunt - even as Scum. I am literally PR blind. We've had this conversation before.

Also what do you mean you are PR blind?

I mean, and I have said this plenty of times in other games because this exact conversation has come up, that I cannot actually find crumbs from Town as Scum. There are only 2 things I am good at regarding roles and they both apply to me being Town: I can spot VT sometimes and I tend to put masons in danger because I sense something is off between them. I'll give you a link to a place where I have had this conversation. It already came up once since I've been back playing Mafia.

[Town looter]

Ok so my only remaining concern with you, LQ, was the absentmindedness - forgetting Anthony was in the game, and some other bits and pieces, made me worry you were playing dumb to mask non-genuine behaviour.

But I hunted around in your meta and found a Town!LQ game where you replaced in and your first read was on the slot you were replacing into. That may have been some big brain meta play, but seems consistent with your faux pas in here.

I am getting more comfortable with Town!LQ.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ok so my only remaining concern with you, LQ, was the absentmindedness - forgetting Anthony was in the game, and some other bits and pieces, made me worry you were playing dumb to mask non-genuine behaviour.

But I hunted around in your meta and found a Town!LQ game where you replaced in and your first read was on the slot you were replacing into. That may have been some big brain meta play, but seems consistent with your faux pas in here.

I am getting more comfortable with Town!LQ.

Just how deep of a meta dive did you do, gosh.

[Town looter]

Was specifically looking for a game where you had replaced in as town.

[Town looter]

I'm fairly certain that the Scum team is Nash/Micc.

Another revisit: What has changed since you made this post

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm fairly certain that the Scum team is Nash/Micc.

Another revisit: What has changed since you made this post

I change my mind a lot. There is too much time in these Days sometimes. Not always. Sometimes you're better off using all the time. Other times I can change my mind with little to no reason.

I found your narrative on being excited that you didn't get lynch a huge question mark. IDK what I think of it anymore. Micc says it's Townie or NAI and says me focussing on that is Scummy. Not sure where he is getting that as I am pretty sure he hasn't meta dove me. If he had, he'd have said it was Townie. I tend to have strange reasons for my reads sometimes. I even have a quote of Nachomamma8 saying such in my sig. He seems to be focussing almost exclusively on playing "correctly" rather than taking the player and playstyle into consideration. I am not sure what to make of that as some of the old ways of playing generally focus on that way of playing more. I had votato as a strong Scum read. That was half of me SRing Micc. Micc has since not really done much that I consider AI. I was basically just going after things I thought was Scummy with you and sometime you have to make stuff happen anyways.

I will say it seems like you have a lot more WIM than Micc does. That counts for something because you are meta diving and stuff and I don't think Micc is. Micc has kinda just dropped off at this point. He even said he didn't want to engage with me if I was going to vote him.

[Town looter]

WIM?

[LicketyQuickety]

WIM?

Wants it More.

[Micc]

Sorry. Today was busy but I’ll be here tomorrow

[Micc]

Yeah. I feel like all of the suspicion of the TL you’ve given since I replaced in has been purposed towards keeping options open for you. The things you’ve pushed don’t feel alignment indicative to me, more like throwing shade instead. Meanwhile you had this case against votato that you felt strongly about that has been almost entirely set aside.

1. It's called reevaluating. I can change my mind. It actually shows I'm Town since it's more likely that people change their mind as Town.

And there’s also other things in that paragraph besides my talking about day 3. So even that response kinda feels like you’re shading or discrediting me.

Yeah, but the rest of your arguments hing on that. That's why I talked about that and not everything else.

I guess my question here is, who do you intend to vote for? If we’re cross voting, I don’t really care to engage with you any more. If you’re voting TL or even not sure yet I don’t have a problem engaging. But I don’t want it to be the kind of engagement where I give my thoughts and you tell me they are bad.

What gives you the idea I will say your "ideas are bad"? Not sure what you are accusing me of here.

I don't know who I am going to vote for yet.

1. ok, but I think your stated reasons for reevaluating are suspect so I'm not taking the change of heart to be made in good faith.
2. I don't see the connection that makes my read of day 3 hing on the general consensus of dead players, or of my day 1 & 2 reads.
3. That's what I took your 751 to be saying. That post's only purpose is to discredit my opinion.

So then when I combine point 1 with point 3 I feel like they contradict in that while 1 might be an honest attempt to get your vote right, 3 makes it feel like you're not here to have a good faith conversation. I'm at the point where I plan to vote you. So I feel like its on you to either cross votes with me or make a compelling argument for TL as mafia.

Like... How can I control how you see my pred? I can't really do anything about that. The only thing I can attack is what you said about my play.

I get that you can't really answer for brassherald, just as I can't really answer for votato. I don't really get why you have to attack my opinion about your play?

[LicketyQuickety]

1. ok, but I think your stated reasons for reevaluating are suspect so I'm not taking the change of heart to be made in good faith.

Why?

2. I don't see the connection that makes my read of day 3 hing on the general consensus of dead players, or of my day 1 & 2 reads.

Pretty sure that is not anyone's argument???

3. That's what I took your 751 to be saying. That post's only purpose is to discredit my opinion.

Because it's not true???

So then when I combine point 1 with point 3 I feel like they contradict in that while 1 might be an honest attempt to get your vote right, 3 makes it feel like you're not here to have a good faith conversation. I'm at the point where I plan to vote you. So I feel like its on you to either cross votes with me or make a compelling argument for TL as mafia.

That's kinda lame. It feels like you are reaching here and accusing me of reaching in the process.

VOTE: Micc

[Micc]

Briefly where I am at (phone post so apologies in advance): leaning Micc as scum. While I initially agreed with votato about LQ posting differently, they have reverted to norm (from a very brief skim of their other threads). Also I think getting on me when there was an opportunity to pile on Micc is indicative of town behaviour. And in this scenario it makes sense for Micc trying to pocket me using LQs odd misrepresentation - which for the record, could be AI, but could also be due to LQs style and trying to apply pressure, so nullish for me.

It’s not 100% thou. LQ

has

been making a pretty weird argument by focussing on the micro of my behaviour (which is will tend to always make someone like me look scummy, as I tend to summarise thoughts rather than be very detailed, which leads to micro inconsistencies). And there is good scum motivation to target me given I am probably an easier target than a town!Micc.

can you give more details about his meta read you have of LQ? what baseline of town and maifa LQ are you are comparing to? i ask because this sounds like a classic misuse of meta.

i think you need to reevaluate how you feel about the LQ posting that I took issue with. If you are still unsure about them yourself, I think its unfair for you to be already docking town equity from me.

I am, currently, buying your argument about sounding scummy, but actually being town

yikes

(obviously not just based on you word lol).

still kinda yikes tbh

would it help if I pulled up self meta of every final 3 i've been in the last 3 years? I don't think there is a single one that ends in any other way besides me being mislynched.

"micc has argued really well but it doesn't feel genuine" or "it feels manipulative" being classic deciding factors.