Kerset's Large Normal Review, June 2020

[implosion]

This time with correct Role PMs.

Mafia Hider Enabler
Mafia Jailkeeper
Mafia Goon
Mafia Mailman Traitor

Town Lazy Fruit Vendor
Town Weak hider
Town Odd-Night Traffic Analyst
Town JOAT{Psychologist, Hide, Rolecop}
Town N4 Ascetic N4 Vigilante Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Spoiler: MHE

Welcome to game! You are a

Mafia Hider Enabler.

Your team-mates are names. You may talk to them here. You also know that Traitor exists in this game.

When you die, the ability "Hider" will cease to function for all players.

You have following active ability:

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: JK

Welcome to game! You are a

Mafia Jailkepper.

Your team-mates are names. You may talk to them here. You also know that Traitor exists in this game.

You have the following active abilities, but may use only one per night:

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.
Each Night, you may target a player. You will simultaneously roleblock that player, and protect that player from any number of nightkills.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: MMT

Welcome to game! You are a

Mafia Mailman Traitor.

Your team-mates are names. You are unable to talk with them privately.
You will be endgamed if all other Mafia are dead.

You have the following active ability:

Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, the moderator will anonymously send that player a message of your choice (specified when you submit this action).
You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: MG

Welcome to game! You are a

Mafia Goon.

Your team-mates are names. You may talk to them here. You also know that Traitor exists in this game.

You have following active ability:

Each night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: LFV

Welcome to game! You are a

Town Lazy Fruit Vendor.

You have the following active ability:

Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be told they received fruit (but not who sent it). Your action will fail if there is only one non-town player alive at the start of the night phase.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: TWH

Welcome to game! You are a

Town Weak Hider

You have the following active ability:

Each Night, you may target another player in the game to hide behind. Assuming no interference with your action, you will be immune to all nightkills that phase. However, if your target dies that phase, you also die. You will also die, if you target non-town member.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: ONTA

Welcome to game! You are a

Town Odd-Night Traffic Analyst

You have the following active ability:

Each Odd Night, you may target another player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will check whether a player can privately communicate.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: JOAT

Welcome to game! You are a

Town JOAT

You have following active abilities, but may use only one per night:

Once per game, you may target another player in the game to hide behind. Assuming no interference with your action, you will be immune to all nightkills that phase. However, if your target dies that phase, you also die.
Once per game, you may target another player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player has an unused active killing ability (which gives a "positive" result), as opposed to having no kill or a kill that has already been used (both of which give a "negative" result).
Once per game, you may target another player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn that player's role (but not their alignment).

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: n4V

Welcome to game! You are a

Town N4 Ascetic N4 Vigilante Neighbor

You x and y are Neighbors. You may talk privately here.
You have the following ability:

On Night 4, actions that target you, other than kills, will fail as if roleblocked. On this night you may also target another player in the game to kill. Assuming no interference your target will die.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: TN

Welcome to game! You are a

Town Neighbor

You x and y are Neighbors. You may talk privately here.

You have the no active ability.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Spoiler: VT

Welcome to game! You are a

Vanilla Townie

You x and y are Neighbors. You may talk privately here.

You have the no active ability.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

[implosion]

Primary: Nexus
Secondary: Ircher

Apologies for sending this so late.

[Nexus]

WHAT UP

[Nexus]

Are traitors normal?

Town N4 Ascetic N4 Vigilante Neighbor is a bad role. It would be so unfun to get it.

[Ircher]

Traitors are still normal.

[Kerset]

Town N4 Ascetic N4 Vigilante Neighbor is a bad role. It would be so unfun to get it.

Why? Is night 4 too late?

[Nexus]

Yes.

[Kerset]

I don't mind this being N3.

[Nexus]

I would argue it’s still too late

[Kerset]

Night 3 is going to happen with 11 players alive. It is equivalent of night 2 in 13p mini normal game. The odds for person to be die before using it are ~19%.
I don't feel convinced.


Just to make sure. Does hider enabler affect both Weak Hider and JOAT?

[Nexus]

When you die, the ability "Hider" will cease to function for all players.

Yes, it would.

[Nexus]

Okay it seems alright. I'm not too sure on the balance, but I am also not the best person to discuss it as I have barely played in the past two years.

Ircher - what are your thoughts?

[Ircher]

I'm not convinced the setup will have a 40% town win rate or better, though it's a bit hard to tell given it is an even-start setup and there is a traitor. The weak hider is definitely a strong role. The Traffic Analyst is moderately strong; it will get guilties on all the scum (though the traitor has an alibi), but it can only act on odd nights and there are quite a few "millers". The Vig/Ascetic is of middling power role that helps get the game off evens, but its power is dampened by the fact it acts later in the game. The JOAT seems to be a moderately strong role as well with quite a few useful abilities. The lazy fruit vendor is a pretty weak role. Overall, I'd say town has enough power.

What concerns me is the amount of power mafia possess. A full roleblocker is a notoriously strong role for mafia to have, and a mafia jailkeeper is pretty much the same but with an additional side effect and is a bit more believable as a claim. The jailkeeper also significantly nerfs the weak hider in that it allows for the hider to get false innos. The Hider Enabler is also rather strong since the weak hider is town's main power in this setup. I think changing the jailkeeper to a goon or at least limiting it to only a single shot would greatly improve balance and be passabe.