Mini 2150 - Anime SeiyuU-Pick [SHOW'S OVER!]

[mastina]

˘\_( õ ‹3 ó)_/˘ The questioning from

TheThirteenthJT

in 147 is slightly town. I find his concerns over the roles outing in 279 fairly believable. I don't really like his reads in 307 (but then, I'm biased). They seem focused on silly details like Mikul making excuses early or tuxedo joking around a lot, neither of which feel like particularly believable reads. However, the little bit of emotional appeal in 314 pulls at my kitty heart, and from the reference to a previous newbie game has me believing he may just be someone who expresses themselves in a way others see as inherently scummy. His defense of "I know I'm being hypocritical by pointing it out on the other wagon but so far they are all easy wagoss to push." feels like a fairly honest statement to make. I think he might just be overwhelmed town.

catboi is the Tuxedo Mask slot, right?

I can't help but think that TheThirteenthJT's content in regards to the Tuxedo slot, and that catboi's treatment of them, is scum-scum.

[Battle Mage]

Mikul, since mastina has established a meta of multiple dozen games fakeclaiming mason

only

as town, on what basis have you decided that this is the game she is breaking against her scum philosophy?

This is false, it's both alignments.

This is false; it's never been done by me as scum.

I can link to every scumgame I've ever played to prove it.

And even if I didn't, the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. Panzer is leveling the accusation that I've fakeclaimed mason as scum before--the burden of proof is on him to deliver it. But he won't because he can't because it doesn't exist because I haven't.

So yes, Panzer is outright lying about me.

This is completely lame. Are you even voting for Panzer for supposedly "outright lying" about you? And why exactly would he bother lying? no obvious scum motivation here, as he isn't suggesting you fakeclaiming mason is scummy, just that it's NAI (which partly because of your self-meta and defensiveness around it, is true). And it's always pretty ridiculous to suggest someone is lying about something which is quite easily provable. Someone as experienced as Panzer doing so? I don't buy it.

[PJ.]

@mastina, I'm not engaging you on this. I've already stated why.

I'm cool w/ voting out Shiro or w/e

Pedit: I've already addressed that.

[mastina]

Mastina, can I check, are you suggesting you can't read Shiro at all based on meta, and that is sufficient to not vote her here?

No, Shiro can be read off of meta and I used to know how--but I forgot the method I used to read Shiro off of said meta, which means that currently it's more or less 'yes'.

However, while I might not be able to remember what Shiro's tell is--I can say this about Shiro regardless. Even without a meta tell on Shiro, Shiro's alignment becomes more clear with time. Shiro cannot carry a scumteam even when scum. Shiro contributes virtually nothing regardless of alignment. Because of this lack of contribution regardless of alignment, Shiro is the least-valuable member of any given scumteam, and with other scum dead, Shiro is quick to be exposed. That much I remember about Shiro quite clearly. Shiro won't carry a game as town, but Shiro won't carry a game as scum. More than that, a Shiro lynch gives the town almost nothing regardless of Shiro's alignment. If Shiro's scum, nothing to find scumbuddies from; if Shiro's town, we get no info from what amounted to a policy lurker-lynch since there's no way to tell the scum hopping on an easy wagon apart from the town who believed it was a good wagon.

I'm not going to give Shiro an indefinite pass. Heck I want Shiro to post more and if Shiro continues to not, I might even frustrate-vote Shiro just to apply pressure to Shiro. But I don't think Shiro's a good D1 lynch; Shiro's a good D3 or so lynch, if suspicion remains.

Basically, Shiro isn't getting an indefinite pass from me, but

currently

has a temporary one.

[Mikul]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: panzer

[PJ.]

Luckily I went to the same emoji academy as catboi, so I'm prepared for this situation.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mikul]

I really don't like this wagon on shiro. It's almost like the lack of activity is why he's scum read when this game is largely slower. I'd be inclined to go for thirteen over him but I'm not sure if it's noob scum or noob town vibes I get from him

Panzer is still a better choice. Objectively

[Mikul]

(ᵕᴗ ᵕ⁎)


Kill me

[PJ.]

Nah, u town. Just misguided. I am not a shepherd tho.

[catboi]

catboi, are you post restricted?

>__________________> noooo

˘\_( õ ‹3 ó)_/˘ The questioning from

TheThirteenthJT

in 147 is slightly town. I find his concerns over the roles outing in 279 fairly believable. I don't really like his reads in 307 (but then, I'm biased). They seem focused on silly details like Mikul making excuses early or tuxedo joking around a lot, neither of which feel like particularly believable reads. However, the little bit of emotional appeal in 314 pulls at my kitty heart, and from the reference to a previous newbie game has me believing he may just be someone who expresses themselves in a way others see as inherently scummy. His defense of "I know I'm being hypocritical by pointing it out on the other wagon but so far they are all easy wagoss to push." feels like a fairly honest statement to make. I think he might just be overwhelmed town.

catboi is the Tuxedo Mask slot, right?

I can't help but think that TheThirteenthJT's content in regards to the Tuxedo slot, and that catboi's treatment of them, is scum-scum.

（；¬＿¬)

[PJ.]

Actually BM..u right

UNVOTE:

VOTE: catboi

[mastina]

So, you're saying fakeclaiming mason here means you must be town?

I covered this subject already:

she also has a history of fake claiming masons as scum.

Provably and demonstrably false.

I have a long established history of fakeclaiming mason to the point where it is a meme, sure!

I was town in every single one of those games.

I've never fakeclaimed mason as scum. Not once.

Now I've always said that I

could

fakeclaim masons as scum, it's not like me claiming masons is a trust tell where I refuse to fakeclaim mason as scum and always fakeclaim mason as town.

But it so happens that

so far

, out of probably three dozen mason claims, between actually being a mason and the numerous times I faked it, NONE were with me as scum. Absolutely none of them.

This might have some tie into my refusal to fakeclaim as scum because as scum I refuse to be caught in a lie, I believe the truth is the most deadly weapon for scum to have on their side because if scum have truth on their side, it means towns accusing them of lying are in the wrong, giving scum the ability to be sincere and genuine, something impossible to wholly and truly 100% fake. If scum are being 100% absolutely purely genuine and sincere because they're telling the absolute truth, they can become more town than actual town.

(But, again, it's not like I refuse to fakeclaim as scum as a trust tell on policy of, "I'm scum therefore I will not lie about my claim", so much as I truly and sincerely believe that the

optimal play

as scum is to not lie, and that lying would be suboptimal. I COULD decide one day to make that suboptimal play, it's just that I probably never actually will because I'll always favor the optimal play because it's, well, optimal.)

(Now granted! I have, as town, claimed masons WITH scum. THAT? That I am guilty of, I will admit. It is an inherent risk in the mason gambit, and one that I am always prepared for. But Panzer didn't say I have a history of fakeclaiming masons with scum, he said I have a history of fakeclaiming masons AS scum. The former is true, the latter is not.)

I'm specifically referring to the motivation behind claiming in that way. What would town mastina gain from that?

Surprisingly a lot.

I wouldn't say I am a mason in the way I did if it didn't provide benefits the way it does, and yet time and time again, it always seems to give me benefits.

If it aint broke, no need to fix it, and since it still gives me benefits...

To note I really don't like the idea of clemency because her meta is that she only fake claims "Mason as town". It's way to easy to claim that as scum at that point.

Sure!

It'd be easy to fakeclaim mason as scum because of a track record of fakeclaiming mason as town.

But the fact of the matter is, while I could fakeclaim mason as scum and you never know, maybe for some strange random reason of all games this one just so happens to randomly be the one where I actually do it.

The simple fact is. Provably and demonstrably, can be shown by manually sifting through all of my games.

I've never, to this date, fakeclaimed mason as scum.

I could! And every game I claim mason could be that magical mystical first game where it's actually a scum fakeclaim.

But I haven't.

Basically. Any given time I say I am a mason

could

be a scumastina deciding of all games, this one just so happens to be the one where I randomly decide to buck the trend and claim mason as scum. I have had notable scumgames in the past where I destroyed previous towntells of mine by utilizing them deliberately as scum to earn some good towncredit, and any given game where I claim mason could be that scumgame where I decide to destroy the towntell.

So claiming mason is not a trust tell, because it's something that I could always claim as scum.

But to this date, in the dozens of games where I've claimed masons, between actually being a mason or mason-type role (e.g. loyal neighborizer = essentially mason) and the numerous times where I have faked being one. Every single one has been as town. (Well, one was a 3p, but 3p aren't scum, they're 3p, and that wasn't a fakeclaim because I really was converting people into being confirmed to be my own alignment. It wasn't like I was fakeclaiming mason as a serial killer, it was me claiming my real power, just as town instead of 3p.)

I'd be all too happy for people to evaluate me on merits beside the mason claim, so it's not something I've insisted I be read upon. All I've done is clarified my history with the claim. I've not once said "I've claimed mason this game, therefore, I must be town". I've pointed out that I've never fakeclaimed mason as scum, which is true, but I fully encourage being read on merits other than a mason claim. (That said, I'm never getting lynched this game because I am town and in spite of my Loved role being borderline-useless, scum will nightkill me before the end of the game, guaranteed.)

Or is there another reason you are doing it, which is particularly pro-town here?

As a matter of fact, yes. I feel there were very good reasons for me to say "Hi I am a mason ". I also feel like there's absolutely zero pro-town reason for me to explain said reasons publicly.

[Mikul]

What a "bloody nightmare"

Kek

[PJ.]

this is something that comes in a majority of her games and someone always mentions she has fakeclaimed as scum and she always denies it, then it carries on as a distraction that dominates discussion while carrying on until she gets voted out and if she was town it's basically gg and if she was scum then it's just annoying. I'd honestly rather skip to the part of the song where we vote her out and just move on, misfire or not.

It's almost like I predicted the entirety of mastina's contributions on the last 2 pages, this will be constant until we lynch her.

[mastina]

Are you even voting for Panzer for supposedly "outright lying" about you?

No, and I've already explained why:

My seiyu is Rikiya Koyama. The role is Tora from Ushio and Tora. I am neutral alignment with no win condition due to being trapped by a holy spear until I have to drawn 3 night actions on separate nights. After that I am freed from the spear I become Town w/ what I'm only willing to describe as strong powers. I'd appreciate your cooperation.

While I am pretty sure this is bullshit, I feel obliged to humor it on policy alone since I see no harm in proving it's fake down the line.

(Panzer removed due to 3p claim thus invalidating reads on him. But it should be stated I am incredibly skeptical of his claim both the original claim and also his audition power literally being mine.)

Oh forgot to include the removed-from-readslist Panzerjager, but I feel he bears further mentioning.
I immediately got the vibe that Panzer wasn't town because if he were town I'd expect there to be some sort of pressure from him on me because I said "Hi I am a mason" and the last time I said I was a mason in a game with Panzer, well...he was down my throat the entire time pretty much.

Him claiming third party gives that a reasonable explanation, but I find the third party claim to be suspect since Panzer is someone who, I seem to recall, has the mindset of murdering 3p claims on policy, by and large. I admit this is mostly to memory, thus, not reliable, but I also seem to recall Panzer plays 3p differently than this. His claimed 3p role is also hard to verify, and then on top of all that, his claimed auction power is literally my auction power so I am directly a counterclaim to his claimed ability.

All-in-all, I feel that there's a very real chance that he's scum fakeclaiming third party,

but

, I feel obligated to, at least for now, humor him, because I feel that

if

he's telling the truth, there's no harm in letting him get a wincon, and he's certainly not the best D1 lynch. He's not the

worst

D1 lynch, because he's either scum or 3p, but I feel there are better options.

(*Panzer)
Tuxedo Mask
Battle Mage
Updated readslist, decided I should list Panzer in here anyway in spite of his 3p claim to note my disbelieval of it.

And Panzer claimed his role as mastina's audition power? Huh.

That plus his sketchy claim and play by his own confession being against his normal policies is why I am incredibly suspicious of him.

I'd rather eliminate scum than a 3p that seems harmless, especially if it's 3p that can become strong town. They are a valid default/compromise, though.

^This. If Panzer isn't scum, then he's a harmless 3p. But he wouldn't be a terrible lynch due to the very real possibility that he's scum fakeclaiming 3p. So he's not the best lynch to push forward, but if push comes to shove and we need a lynch and can't get a better one, he's a fine compromise-lynch.

^This one in particular.

It should also be noted that I only have one vote. I can't vote every scumread of mine at once; I have to pick and choose where I want to vote. There are good reasons to not vote Panzer in spite of my suspicion there. So my vote is best placed elsewhere.

And why exactly would he bother lying?

Mostly irrelevant because he has stated provable falsehoods. The 'why' isn't as important as the existence of it. Asking what the motive for lying would be does nothing to remove from the provable fact that, yes, he is in fact lying. Why? I honestly don't care, I'm pretty sure Panzer got banned for quoting his role PM on two separate occasions, my opinion of his standard of play is incredibly low so I don't even think lying is scum-indicative from him.

Basically you're more or less going, "but why would he lie? He doesn't have an incentive to lie and therefore it must not be a lie", when it IS a lie no matter what. It is, provably, a falsehood that he has stated. It is something that anyone can look into and see isn't true. You're saying he wouldn't do something that he provably has done. Saying he has no reason to have done it doesn't remove the fact that he did it.

[Mikul]

Mastina > panzer > thirteen

[mastina]

Deimos27
Panther and Fox
HoldenGolden/Starbuck
Mikul

popopopopopopo
TrueSoulEnergy

Sujimichi
Shiro



Battle Mage
(*Panzer)
TheThirteenthJT
Tuxedo Mask/catboi

Locktown strong town null scum.

[Battle Mage]

Are you even voting for Panzer for supposedly "outright lying" about you?

No, and I've already explained why:

My seiyu is Rikiya Koyama. The role is Tora from Ushio and Tora. I am neutral alignment with no win condition due to being trapped by a holy spear until I have to drawn 3 night actions on separate nights. After that I am freed from the spear I become Town w/ what I'm only willing to describe as strong powers. I'd appreciate your cooperation.

While I am pretty sure this is bullshit, I feel obliged to humor it on policy alone since I see no harm in proving it's fake down the line.

(Panzer removed due to 3p claim thus invalidating reads on him. But it should be stated I am incredibly skeptical of his claim both the original claim and also his audition power literally being mine.)

Oh forgot to include the removed-from-readslist Panzerjager, but I feel he bears further mentioning.
I immediately got the vibe that Panzer wasn't town because if he were town I'd expect there to be some sort of pressure from him on me because I said "Hi I am a mason" and the last time I said I was a mason in a game with Panzer, well...he was down my throat the entire time pretty much.

Him claiming third party gives that a reasonable explanation, but I find the third party claim to be suspect since Panzer is someone who, I seem to recall, has the mindset of murdering 3p claims on policy, by and large. I admit this is mostly to memory, thus, not reliable, but I also seem to recall Panzer plays 3p differently than this. His claimed 3p role is also hard to verify, and then on top of all that, his claimed auction power is literally my auction power so I am directly a counterclaim to his claimed ability.

All-in-all, I feel that there's a very real chance that he's scum fakeclaiming third party,

but

, I feel obligated to, at least for now, humor him, because I feel that

if

he's telling the truth, there's no harm in letting him get a wincon, and he's certainly not the best D1 lynch. He's not the

worst

D1 lynch, because he's either scum or 3p, but I feel there are better options.

(*Panzer)
Tuxedo Mask
Battle Mage
Updated readslist, decided I should list Panzer in here anyway in spite of his 3p claim to note my disbelieval of it.

And Panzer claimed his role as mastina's audition power? Huh.

That plus his sketchy claim and play by his own confession being against his normal policies is why I am incredibly suspicious of him.

I'd rather eliminate scum than a 3p that seems harmless, especially if it's 3p that can become strong town. They are a valid default/compromise, though.

^This. If Panzer isn't scum, then he's a harmless 3p. But he wouldn't be a terrible lynch due to the very real possibility that he's scum fakeclaiming 3p. So he's not the best lynch to push forward, but if push comes to shove and we need a lynch and can't get a better one, he's a fine compromise-lynch.

^This one in particular.

It should also be noted that I only have one vote. I can't vote every scumread of mine at once; I have to pick and choose where I want to vote. There are good reasons to not vote Panzer in spite of my suspicion there. So my vote is best placed elsewhere.

And why exactly would he bother lying?

Mostly irrelevant because he has stated provable falsehoods. The 'why' isn't as important as the existence of it. Asking what the motive for lying would be does nothing to remove from the provable fact that, yes, he is in fact lying. Why? I honestly don't care, I'm pretty sure Panzer got banned for quoting his role PM on two separate occasions, my opinion of his standard of play is incredibly low so I don't even think lying is scum-indicative from him.

Basically you're more or less going, "but why would he lie? He doesn't have an incentive to lie and therefore it must not be a lie", when it IS a lie no matter what. It is, provably, a falsehood that he has stated. It is something that anyone can look into and see isn't true. You're saying he wouldn't do something that he provably has done. Saying he has no reason to have done it doesn't remove the fact that he did it.

Succinctly, that's not correct. Which ironically, is precisely the point. From your perspective, it seems perfectly plausible Panzerjager was simply "mistaken", rather than "lying". You've chosen to assert the latter which is far less likely, in order to shade him. In doing so, you've gone to some effort to make the point he is "lying", when in fact, he almost certainly wasn't, and have failed to take the subsequent step of trying to understand whether that is AI or not (which is the core function of town). The failure to make that assessment leaves a scummy impression of Panzerjager as a "liar", when in fact even if he was lying about this, I'm not sure how you would argue it is scum-indicative.

[Battle Mage]

Deimos27
Panther and Fox
HoldenGolden/Starbuck
Mikul

popopopopopopo
TrueSoulEnergy

Sujimichi
Shiro



Battle Mage
(*Panzer)
TheThirteenthJT
Tuxedo Mask/catboi

Locktown strong town null scum.

Is your failure to provide a complete response to my questions in post 422 intentional, as you don't have a good response and thought I would forget to follow up?

Am I in your "scum" list for OMGUS reasons, or anything legitimate?

[Battle Mage]

So, you're saying fakeclaiming mason here means you must be town?

I covered this subject already:

she also has a history of fake claiming masons as scum.

Provably and demonstrably false.

I have a long established history of fakeclaiming mason to the point where it is a meme, sure!

I was town in every single one of those games.

I've never fakeclaimed mason as scum. Not once.

Now I've always said that I

could

fakeclaim masons as scum, it's not like me claiming masons is a trust tell where I refuse to fakeclaim mason as scum and always fakeclaim mason as town.

But it so happens that

so far

, out of probably three dozen mason claims, between actually being a mason and the numerous times I faked it, NONE were with me as scum. Absolutely none of them.

This might have some tie into my refusal to fakeclaim as scum because as scum I refuse to be caught in a lie, I believe the truth is the most deadly weapon for scum to have on their side because if scum have truth on their side, it means towns accusing them of lying are in the wrong, giving scum the ability to be sincere and genuine, something impossible to wholly and truly 100% fake. If scum are being 100% absolutely purely genuine and sincere because they're telling the absolute truth, they can become more town than actual town.

(But, again, it's not like I refuse to fakeclaim as scum as a trust tell on policy of, "I'm scum therefore I will not lie about my claim", so much as I truly and sincerely believe that the

optimal play

as scum is to not lie, and that lying would be suboptimal. I COULD decide one day to make that suboptimal play, it's just that I probably never actually will because I'll always favor the optimal play because it's, well, optimal.)

(Now granted! I have, as town, claimed masons WITH scum. THAT? That I am guilty of, I will admit. It is an inherent risk in the mason gambit, and one that I am always prepared for. But Panzer didn't say I have a history of fakeclaiming masons with scum, he said I have a history of fakeclaiming masons AS scum. The former is true, the latter is not.)

I'm specifically referring to the motivation behind claiming in that way. What would town mastina gain from that?

Surprisingly a lot.

I wouldn't say I am a mason in the way I did if it didn't provide benefits the way it does, and yet time and time again, it always seems to give me benefits.

If it aint broke, no need to fix it, and since it still gives me benefits...

To note I really don't like the idea of clemency because her meta is that she only fake claims "Mason as town". It's way to easy to claim that as scum at that point.

Sure!

It'd be easy to fakeclaim mason as scum because of a track record of fakeclaiming mason as town.

But the fact of the matter is, while I could fakeclaim mason as scum and you never know, maybe for some strange random reason of all games this one just so happens to randomly be the one where I actually do it.

The simple fact is. Provably and demonstrably, can be shown by manually sifting through all of my games.

I've never, to this date, fakeclaimed mason as scum.

I could! And every game I claim mason could be that magical mystical first game where it's actually a scum fakeclaim.

But I haven't.

Basically. Any given time I say I am a mason

could

be a scumastina deciding of all games, this one just so happens to be the one where I randomly decide to buck the trend and claim mason as scum. I have had notable scumgames in the past where I destroyed previous towntells of mine by utilizing them deliberately as scum to earn some good towncredit, and any given game where I claim mason could be that scumgame where I decide to destroy the towntell.

So claiming mason is not a trust tell, because it's something that I could always claim as scum.

But to this date, in the dozens of games where I've claimed masons, between actually being a mason or mason-type role (e.g. loyal neighborizer = essentially mason) and the numerous times where I have faked being one. Every single one has been as town. (Well, one was a 3p, but 3p aren't scum, they're 3p, and that wasn't a fakeclaim because I really was converting people into being confirmed to be my own alignment. It wasn't like I was fakeclaiming mason as a serial killer, it was me claiming my real power, just as town instead of 3p.)

I'd be all too happy for people to evaluate me on merits beside the mason claim, so it's not something I've insisted I be read upon. All I've done is clarified my history with the claim. I've not once said "I've claimed mason this game, therefore, I must be town". I've pointed out that I've never fakeclaimed mason as scum, which is true, but I fully encourage being read on merits other than a mason claim. (That said, I'm never getting lynched this game because I am town and in spite of my Loved role being borderline-useless, scum will nightkill me before the end of the game, guaranteed.)

Or is there another reason you are doing it, which is particularly pro-town here?

As a matter of fact, yes. I feel there were very good reasons for me to say "Hi I am a mason ".

I also feel like there's absolutely zero pro-town reason for me to explain said reasons publicly.

I'm extremely skeptical that is the case, and I wonder if you're simply parrotting Deimos here as he used similar language. I think it's much more likely there was no good reason to do it at all, beyond using it as a way to deflect suspicion because it's a town-tell per your meta. I can't see any pro-town benefit to making a fakeclaim which is obviously a fakeclaim which nobody would buy - it is completely redundant, and can't serve any pro-town purpose I can think of, and crucially, not a purpose which you would consider it beneficial to be secretive about now it's done. Your defensive churlishness is giving me bad vibes. I also have no idea what "I'm never getting lynched this game because I am town" is supposed to mean.

[catboi]

However, while I might not be able to remember what Shiro's tell is--I can say this about Shiro regardless. Even without a meta tell on Shiro, Shiro's alignment becomes more clear with time. Shiro cannot carry a scumteam even when scum. Shiro contributes virtually nothing regardless of alignment. Because of this lack of contribution regardless of alignment, Shiro is the least-valuable member of any given scumteam, and with other scum dead, Shiro is quick to be exposed. That much I remember about Shiro quite clearly. Shiro won't carry a game as town, but Shiro won't carry a game as scum. More than that, a Shiro lynch gives the town almost nothing regardless of Shiro's alignment. If Shiro's scum, nothing to find scumbuddies from; if Shiro's town, we get no info from what amounted to a policy lurker-lynch since there's no way to tell the scum hopping on an easy wagon apart from the town who believed it was a good wagon.

I'm not going to give Shiro an indefinite pass. Heck I want Shiro to post more and if Shiro continues to not, I might even frustrate-vote Shiro just to apply pressure to Shiro. But I don't think Shiro's a good D1 lynch; Shiro's a good D3 or so lynch, if suspicion remains.

Basically, Shiro isn't getting an indefinite pass from me, but currently has a temporary one.

（；¬＿¬) So you propose they will be easier to read after giving them a pass to do nothing for 2 days?

[Battle Mage]

Actually BM..u right

UNVOTE:

VOTE: catboi

we're not lynching catboi for having an annoying self-imposed PR. You said you were happy joining Shiro right?

[Battle Mage]

However, while I might not be able to remember what Shiro's tell is--I can say this about Shiro regardless. Even without a meta tell on Shiro, Shiro's alignment becomes more clear with time. Shiro cannot carry a scumteam even when scum. Shiro contributes virtually nothing regardless of alignment. Because of this lack of contribution regardless of alignment, Shiro is the least-valuable member of any given scumteam, and with other scum dead, Shiro is quick to be exposed. That much I remember about Shiro quite clearly. Shiro won't carry a game as town, but Shiro won't carry a game as scum. More than that, a Shiro lynch gives the town almost nothing regardless of Shiro's alignment. If Shiro's scum, nothing to find scumbuddies from; if Shiro's town, we get no info from what amounted to a policy lurker-lynch since there's no way to tell the scum hopping on an easy wagon apart from the town who believed it was a good wagon.

I'm not going to give Shiro an indefinite pass. Heck I want Shiro to post more and if Shiro continues to not, I might even frustrate-vote Shiro just to apply pressure to Shiro. But I don't think Shiro's a good D1 lynch; Shiro's a good D3 or so lynch, if suspicion remains.

Basically, Shiro isn't getting an indefinite pass from me, but currently has a temporary one.

（；¬＿¬) So you propose they will be easier to read after giving them a pass to do nothing for 2 days?

I agree with catboi, this is weak. Also, on a personal note, I'm not sure where Mastina gets off saying everyone else is a shit player when she allegedly fakeclaims mason without justification in dozens of games as town but never as scum and still routinely manages to make it into a big distraction and/or gets evicted for it.

[mastina]

Deimos27
Panther and Fox
HoldenGolden/Starbuck
Mikul

popopopopopopo

TrueSoulEnergy

Sujimichi
Shiro



Battle Mage

(*Panzer)
TheThirteenthJT
Tuxedo Mask/catboi

Locktown strong town nulltown null nullscum scum.

Small correction; BM is probably not in the same tier of scumread as the others, so I've separated him.

For the reads...
Basically, Deimos has done everything town the entire step of the game. Opening was town, continued content was town, Deimos radiates town and is just obviously town in every way shape and form. If we could give a bulletproof to someone every single day, it should go to Deimos because Deimos is the player scum most would want to get rid of. Obvtown, good analysis, just all-around high-town.

Panther and Fox immediately pocketed me with their thoughts more or less dead-on echoing my own, with solid, good analysis out of the gate. While I disagree with their read of TheThirteenthJT's content being town, I agree with most of what they say, and the fact that their reads aren't

exactly

carbon copies of my own bodes well--it shows they're not trying to intentionally pocket me by echoing my thoughts and nothing else. They have their own take, their own thoughts, unique and original to them.

Beyond that, I maintain my initial towntell on them is valid. If Panther and Fox had a scum PT to post in (and a scum PT WOULD be open in the pregame!), then they would've realized they couldn't post in it, and alert the mod to this fact before the game begun. But because they were unaware of this problem until the game begun and contacted the mod about it only after the game was already underway, it's fairly strong proof that they didn't have a scum PT to post in, and thus, they are town.

HoldenGolden was obviously town and Starbuck has only strengthened the read. Everything HoldenGolden did felt town, I could tell what he was doing and track a town mindset in it, without seeing any scum mindset for it. Starbuck's entrance into the game only solidified this by instantly replacing in, catching up on the whole game, and continuing to analyze things, prod things, poke things, etc. On that note, Starbuck saying she read the game and was contributing, as more or less a reasoning for "your justification doesn't hold", more or less going, "I did this in less than a day, what's your excuse?", all solidly point to her being town.

While Mikul's stance on me is annoying and anti-town, I don't think it comes from scum. To the contrary, I feel it very strongly comes from town. Mikul's applied pressure the whole game to multiple slots, having interacted extensively with Battle Mage and pushing him in a way I feel is incredibly fluid and organic. Beyond showing they're not scum-scum, I feel it just shows that Mikul is outright town, regardless of Battle Mage's alignment. (That said, if Battle Mage is scum, then that would be extra evidence that Mikul isn't.)

Mikul's also not tunneled exclusively on me, and is pressing elsewhere as well, with good pushes and good reasoning. Overall, Mikul is definitely one of the towniest players in this game and while I have no prior meta with Mikul, I'd be flabbergasted if Mikul was this good at scumplay.

popo might've done almost nothing before being replaced, but what little there was ringed town to me. As scum, popo could've just let me defend the slot, but instead questioned my townread of popo off of the one entry post, which I maintain was still town due to the casual nature of it. Certainly not locktown due to a lack of content, but still far more likely to be town than not.

I feel like I might have TSE too high right now, on reflection--probably is more nulltown than strong town. The reason why: I really really really liked TSE's entrance into the game, because if he truly believed Deimos was god-tiered scum and BM is easy to read as scum, then his opener makes perfect sense and I can see the town mindset from it. I also liked his pressure onto the Tuxedo Mask slot, along with a rather bold statement to be making. All of this made me think town.

Since then I've reconsidered, because his stance to defend Battle Mage is objectively wrong, detracting from Deimos is also objectively in the wrong, and his content's fairly lackluster. He's said he's busy, but since then has done nothing but active lurk more or less, and from TSE I'd expect him to be fairly active and involved, pushing reasonably hard. Yet he hasn't. With that lack of content beyond the initial burst, and with that initial burst being objectively in the wrong even if I can believe that subjectively he truly believed that, he's possibly scum here.

That having been said, someone brought up a good point and it applies to multiple slots, his and Shiro's alike: this game has been fairly slow and mostly dead, and every slot that's being lackluster cannot be scum, every active lurker cannot be scum, because we have too many of them, too many people who're not in the game. I'm still willing to buy into TSE being town that's not into the game yet, thus, nulltown is probably the best place to put him in reflection.

Sujimichi is currently null right now because in spite of Sujimichi having posted, I need more to get a read.

Shiro I've already explained.

Battle Mage is a read which isn't so much a weaker scumread now compared to before, so much as it is, the other scumreads got stronger. I still think that a lot of his content is suspect, but that having been said, I am thinking of calling him nullscum on the basis of him applying pressure to most of my other scumreads. While distancing/bussing is something he's fully capable of doing on a dime, I still feel I owe it to him that if he does actually help lynch one or two scum that he's less likely to be scum as a result.

Panzer I've already gone into.

TheThirteenthJT, more or less already went into there. While TheThirteenthJT has given some thoughts, the level of timidness from them, lack of putting their money where their mouth is, and the overall content from them, radiates newbscum. It's not impossible to be newbtown, I fully admit that, but between newbscum and newbtown, newbscum fits the profile of TheThirteenthJT's actions much better.

catboi's content has admittedly been an improvement over Tuxedo Mask's, but catboi's stances all feel fairly safe and controlled--pressuring Shiro for instance. The one exception to this would be the defense of TheThirteenthJT, a stance that does take catboi a little out of the comfort zone, but if they're scumbuddies, that defense is a necessity. (Can probably explain this stance more, but...I wanna eat breakfast.)

[Battle Mage]

Deimos27
Panther and Fox
HoldenGolden/Starbuck
Mikul

popopopopopopo

TrueSoulEnergy

Sujimichi
Shiro



Battle Mage

(*Panzer)
TheThirteenthJT
Tuxedo Mask/catboi

Locktown strong town nulltown null nullscum scum.

Small correction; BM is probably not in the same tier of scumread as the others, so I've separated him.

For the reads...
Basically, Deimos has done everything town the entire step of the game. Opening was town, continued content was town, Deimos radiates town and is just obviously town in every way shape and form. If we could give a bulletproof to someone every single day, it should go to Deimos because Deimos is the player scum most would want to get rid of. Obvtown, good analysis, just all-around high-town.

Panther and Fox immediately pocketed me with their thoughts more or less dead-on echoing my own, with solid, good analysis out of the gate. While I disagree with their read of TheThirteenthJT's content being town, I agree with most of what they say, and the fact that their reads aren't

exactly

carbon copies of my own bodes well--it shows they're not trying to intentionally pocket me by echoing my thoughts and nothing else. They have their own take, their own thoughts, unique and original to them.

Beyond that, I maintain my initial towntell on them is valid. If Panther and Fox had a scum PT to post in (and a scum PT WOULD be open in the pregame!), then they would've realized they couldn't post in it, and alert the mod to this fact before the game begun. But because they were unaware of this problem until the game begun and contacted the mod about it only after the game was already underway, it's fairly strong proof that they didn't have a scum PT to post in, and thus, they are town.

HoldenGolden was obviously town and Starbuck has only strengthened the read. Everything HoldenGolden did felt town, I could tell what he was doing and track a town mindset in it, without seeing any scum mindset for it. Starbuck's entrance into the game only solidified this by instantly replacing in, catching up on the whole game, and continuing to analyze things, prod things, poke things, etc. On that note, Starbuck saying she read the game and was contributing, as more or less a reasoning for "your justification doesn't hold", more or less going, "I did this in less than a day, what's your excuse?", all solidly point to her being town.

While Mikul's stance on me is annoying and anti-town, I don't think it comes from scum. To the contrary, I feel it very strongly comes from town. Mikul's applied pressure the whole game to multiple slots, having interacted extensively with Battle Mage and pushing him in a way I feel is incredibly fluid and organic. Beyond showing they're not scum-scum, I feel it just shows that Mikul is outright town, regardless of Battle Mage's alignment. (That said, if Battle Mage is scum, then that would be extra evidence that Mikul isn't.)

Mikul's also not tunneled exclusively on me, and is pressing elsewhere as well, with good pushes and good reasoning. Overall, Mikul is definitely one of the towniest players in this game and while I have no prior meta with Mikul, I'd be flabbergasted if Mikul was this good at scumplay.

popo might've done almost nothing before being replaced, but what little there was ringed town to me. As scum, popo could've just let me defend the slot, but instead questioned my townread of popo off of the one entry post, which I maintain was still town due to the casual nature of it. Certainly not locktown due to a lack of content, but still far more likely to be town than not.

I feel like I might have TSE too high right now, on reflection--probably is more nulltown than strong town. The reason why: I really really really liked TSE's entrance into the game, because if he truly believed Deimos was god-tiered scum and BM is easy to read as scum, then his opener makes perfect sense and I can see the town mindset from it. I also liked his pressure onto the Tuxedo Mask slot, along with a rather bold statement to be making. All of this made me think town.

Since then I've reconsidered, because his stance to defend Battle Mage is objectively wrong, detracting from Deimos is also objectively in the wrong, and his content's fairly lackluster. He's said he's busy, but since then has done nothing but active lurk more or less, and from TSE I'd expect him to be fairly active and involved, pushing reasonably hard. Yet he hasn't. With that lack of content beyond the initial burst, and with that initial burst being objectively in the wrong even if I can believe that subjectively he truly believed that, he's possibly scum here.

That having been said, someone brought up a good point and it applies to multiple slots, his and Shiro's alike: this game has been fairly slow and mostly dead, and every slot that's being lackluster cannot be scum, every active lurker cannot be scum, because we have too many of them, too many people who're not in the game. I'm still willing to buy into TSE being town that's not into the game yet, thus, nulltown is probably the best place to put him in reflection.

Sujimichi is currently null right now because in spite of Sujimichi having posted, I need more to get a read.

Shiro I've already explained.

Battle Mage is a read which isn't so much a weaker scumread now compared to before, so much as it is, the other scumreads got stronger. I still think that a lot of his content is suspect, but that having been said, I am thinking of calling him nullscum on the basis of him applying pressure to most of my other scumreads. While distancing/bussing is something he's fully capable of doing on a dime, I still feel I owe it to him that if he does actually help lynch one or two scum that he's less likely to be scum as a result.

Panzer I've already gone into.

TheThirteenthJT, more or less already went into there. While TheThirteenthJT has given some thoughts, the level of timidness from them, lack of putting their money where their mouth is, and the overall content from them, radiates newbscum. It's not impossible to be newbtown, I fully admit that, but between newbscum and newbtown, newbscum fits the profile of TheThirteenthJT's actions much better.

catboi's content has admittedly been an improvement over Tuxedo Mask's, but catboi's stances all feel fairly safe and controlled--pressuring Shiro for instance. The one exception to this would be the defense of TheThirteenthJT, a stance that does take catboi a little out of the comfort zone, but if they're scumbuddies, that defense is a necessity. (Can probably explain this stance more, but...I wanna eat breakfast.)

This doesn't accord as a particularly innovative readslist - you're basically buddying all the active players aside from me, as I'm the only one pushing you, amirite? And not clear from this readslist why you are even scumreading me... All incredibly cautious. And you're still neglecting to respond to my questions.