Newbie 2016: Snapdragons (Game Over)

Battle Mage · Post Post #1275 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:51 am

In post 1269, TheThirteenthJT wrote:I came to a conclusion last night. I'm almost sure now.

This is my first Elo situation so I I hope I don't mess it up. I'll put a final case and see what everyone thinks before voting when I'm fully free tonight. At this point I feel 90% sure of one scum. I'm willing to take the chances on it and bet the game. If we lose I'll gladly take the loss.

Everyone final scum pairings you'll bet the game on?

I'd go 72o and Jam, but definitely 72o first. Although that still means we need to persuade Looker to get him on board.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1276 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:52 am

Jam's interaction with 72o on the last page makes zero sense from town who has mechanically confirmed 72o is scum.

JamSV · Post Post #1277 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:54 am

In post 1275, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1269, TheThirteenthJT wrote:I came to a conclusion last night. I'm almost sure now.

This is my first Elo situation so I I hope I don't mess it up. I'll put a final case and see what everyone thinks before voting when I'm fully free tonight. At this point I feel 90% sure of one scum. I'm willing to take the chances on it and bet the game. If we lose I'll gladly take the loss.

Everyone final scum pairings you'll bet the game on?
I'd go 72o and Jam, but definitely 72o first. Although that still means we need to persuade Looker to get him on board.

Do you mean his lack luster attempt at distancing by voting and unvoting you? He's obviously going to the 72 wagon. I have a case against Looker. Looker doesn't have a case against me (or anyone else for that matter tehehe). Looker goes first.

JamSV · Post Post #1278 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:12 am

In post 1276, Battle Mage wrote:Jam's interaction with 72o on the last page makes zero sense from town who has mechanically confirmed 72o is scum.

Mechanical confirmation? Given how apparently you knew TTJT was going to be away and exactly how long for and given that affected your actions at the end of D2. Is it unreasonable to assume, you knew Nahdia wouldn't count my "vote" as an actual vote so just tried for town cred?

Battle Mage · Post Post #1279 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:27 am

In post 1277, JamSV wrote:
In post 1275, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1269, TheThirteenthJT wrote:I came to a conclusion last night. I'm almost sure now.

This is my first Elo situation so I I hope I don't mess it up. I'll put a final case and see what everyone thinks before voting when I'm fully free tonight. At this point I feel 90% sure of one scum. I'm willing to take the chances on it and bet the game. If we lose I'll gladly take the loss.

Everyone final scum pairings you'll bet the game on?
I'd go 72o and Jam, but definitely 72o first. Although that still means we need to persuade Looker to get him on board.
Do you mean his lack luster attempt at distancing by voting and unvoting you? He's obviously going to the 72 wagon. I have a case against Looker. Looker doesn't have a case against me (or anyone else for that matter tehehe). Looker goes first.

You've outted yourself here by jumping too early, you made it too obvious by going back to suspecting me despite the mechanical conf, before the Mod came back with an alternative view. Which suggests you discussed your strategy in the PT with 72o, and then both tried to get the Mod to widen the pool again. Slimey play

Battle Mage · Post Post #1280 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:34 am

In post 1278, JamSV wrote:
In post 1276, Battle Mage wrote:Jam's interaction with 72o on the last page makes zero sense from town who has mechanically confirmed 72o is scum.
Mechanical confirmation? Given how apparently you knew TTJT was going to be away and exactly how long for and given that affected your actions at the end of D2. Is it unreasonable to assume, you knew Nahdia wouldn't count my "vote" as an actual vote so just tried for town cred?

I'm not sure what you're saying in the middle bit - did you mean to ask 72o about that? Oops

And yeah it's pretty unreasonable, as if I was scum with 72o or Looker, I'm clearly taking that punt and arguing the case with the Mod. Your argument is that I'd try and exploit something like that to try and get town-cred, rather than exploit it to just win, which makes no sense.

As I say, I'm surprised by the ruling - I'd have 100% made the opposite call if I was modding (and I was a scummy award-nominated Moderator in my heyday

).

JamSV · Post Post #1281 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:46 am

In post 1280, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1278, JamSV wrote:
In post 1276, Battle Mage wrote:Jam's interaction with 72o on the last page makes zero sense from town who has mechanically confirmed 72o is scum.
Mechanical confirmation? Given how apparently you knew TTJT was going to be away and exactly how long for and given that affected your actions at the end of D2. Is it unreasonable to assume, you knew Nahdia wouldn't count my "vote" as an actual vote so just tried for town cred?
I'm not sure what you're saying in the middle bit - did you mean to ask 72o about that? Oops

And yeah it's pretty unreasonable, as if I was scum with 72o or Looker, I'm clearly taking that punt and arguing the case with the Mod. Your argument is that I'd try and exploit something like that to try and get town-cred, rather than exploit it to just win, which makes no sense.

As I say, I'm surprised by the ruling - I'd have 100% made the opposite call if I was modding (and I was a scummy award-nominated Moderator in my heyday ).

If you knew the moderator doesn't accept accidental votes or mistaken formated votes, you pointing it out would be for town cred, as you wouldn't be able to win from it.

JamSV · Post Post #1282 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:48 am

Regardless, we all know as a matter of fact, Looker is scum, some of us won't admit it, but that's the nature of the game. You're scum by extension, thats all there is to it.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1283 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:49 am

In post 1281, JamSV wrote:
In post 1280, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1278, JamSV wrote:
In post 1276, Battle Mage wrote:Jam's interaction with 72o on the last page makes zero sense from town who has mechanically confirmed 72o is scum.
Mechanical confirmation? Given how apparently you knew TTJT was going to be away and exactly how long for and given that affected your actions at the end of D2. Is it unreasonable to assume, you knew Nahdia wouldn't count my "vote" as an actual vote so just tried for town cred?
I'm not sure what you're saying in the middle bit - did you mean to ask 72o about that? Oops

And yeah it's pretty unreasonable, as if I was scum with 72o or Looker, I'm clearly taking that punt and arguing the case with the Mod. Your argument is that I'd try and exploit something like that to try and get town-cred, rather than exploit it to just win, which makes no sense.

As I say, I'm surprised by the ruling - I'd have 100% made the opposite call if I was modding (and I was a scummy award-nominated Moderator in my heyday ).
If you knew the moderator doesn't accept accidental votes or mistaken formated votes, you pointing it out would be for town cred, as you wouldn't be able to win from it.

how would I have known that? she didn't confirm until long after the event.

This is the weakest shading.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1284 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:51 am

In post 1282, JamSV wrote:Regardless, we all know as a matter of fact, Looker is scum, some of us won't admit it, but that's the nature of the game. You're scum by extension, thats all there is to it.

The fact is, if you were town, you wouldn't "know" who the scum were, and by revealing your certainty, you have effectively slipped. Especially in the face of all logic, to assume 72o is town - impossible.

JamSV · Post Post #1285 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:57 am

The quality of any argument I use against you is irrelevant. You're scum by extension. The only 2 feasible scum pairs are Me + 72, and you + Looker. Based off of how this is playing out. All I have to do is fell Looker, you fall, and the game is won when we hammer you D4. Not to mention how extremely obvious it is Looker is scum out of me and him. He has yet to do a single pro town thing this game. Not to mention he did some particularly scummy things, addressed in 1226. He has 15 posts. A handful are NAI, the rest are anti-Town at the least, of which, during a phase which isn't hammer or lose, go from being NAI / poor play, to being scummy. The fact of the matter is the easiest person to hammer for town is Looker. We don't have to pay you any attention, we just have to wait for Looker to fall and for you to come crashing down D4. All TTJT has to do is read Lookers 15 posts and 1224 or 1226 for a quick summary. Unfortunately for yourself, the game state allows me to completely ignore every point you make. The miracle of you and Looker winning comes to down a literal miracle from Looker, or poor play from TTJT. Both are unlikely for what it's worth.

JamSV · Post Post #1286 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:58 am

EBWOP the only reason I'm not addressing this is because I'm bored and want to play.

JamSV · Post Post #1287 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:58 am

Ignore the not.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1288 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:59 am

In post 1285, JamSV wrote:The quality of any argument I use against you is irrelevant. You're scum by extension. The only 2 feasible scum pairs are Me + 72, and you + Looker. Based off of how this is playing out. All I have to do is fell Looker, you fall, and the game is won when we hammer you D4. Not to mention how extremely obvious it is Looker is scum out of me and him. He has yet to do a single pro town thing this game. Not to mention he did some particularly scummy things, addressed in 1226. He has 15 posts. A handful are NAI, the rest are anti-Town at the least, of which, during a phase which isn't hammer or lose, go from being NAI / poor play, to being scummy. The fact of the matter is the easiest person to hammer for town is Looker. We don't have to pay you any attention, we just have to wait for Looker to fall and for you to come crashing down D4. All TTJT has to do is read Lookers 15 posts and 1224 or 1226 for a quick summary. Unfortunately for yourself, the game state allows me to completely ignore every point you make. The miracle of you and Looker winning comes to down a literal miracle from Looker,
or poor play from TTJT. Both are unlikely for what it's worth.

This is a false dilemma, given 72 and Looker is a plausible scumteam, including

from your own perspective

, and I can only figure you've ruled it out because you don't want to bus 72o and risk a LyLo with me and Looker (because you'd have to kill the Doc tonight), as you think I'll probably back him over you.

As I say, it's a scumslip that you spontaneously "know" I'm scum, and you still haven't justified it, despite supposedly wanting to engage. And your efforts in red to not-so-subtly pressure TTJT by saying it will be "poor play" from him if your buddy 72offsuit gets lynched, and then buddy him...

All looking pretty bad for you bud.

JamSV · Post Post #1289 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:28 am

In post 1288, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1285, JamSV wrote:The quality of any argument I use against you is irrelevant. You're scum by extension. The only 2 feasible scum pairs are Me + 72, and you + Looker. Based off of how this is playing out. All I have to do is fell Looker, you fall, and the game is won when we hammer you D4. Not to mention how extremely obvious it is Looker is scum out of me and him. He has yet to do a single pro town thing this game. Not to mention he did some particularly scummy things, addressed in 1226. He has 15 posts. A handful are NAI, the rest are anti-Town at the least, of which, during a phase which isn't hammer or lose, go from being NAI / poor play, to being scummy. The fact of the matter is the easiest person to hammer for town is Looker. We don't have to pay you any attention, we just have to wait for Looker to fall and for you to come crashing down D4. All TTJT has to do is read Lookers 15 posts and 1224 or 1226 for a quick summary. Unfortunately for yourself, the game state allows me to completely ignore every point you make. The miracle of you and Looker winning comes to down a literal miracle from Looker,
or poor play from TTJT. Both are unlikely for what it's worth.
This is a false dilemma, given 72 and Looker is a plausible scumteam, including
from your own perspective
, and I can only figure you've ruled it out because you don't want to bus 72o and risk a LyLo with me and Looker (because you'd have to kill the Doc tonight), as you think I'll probably back him over you.

As I say, it's a scumslip that you spontaneously "know" I'm scum, and you still haven't justified it, despite supposedly wanting to engage. And your efforts in red to not-so-subtly pressure TTJT by saying it will be "poor play" from him if your buddy 72offsuit gets lynched, and then buddy him...

All looking pretty bad for you bud.

Keep putting words into my mouth as much as you want.

JamSV · Post Post #1290 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:30 am

In post 1288, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1285, JamSV wrote:The quality of any argument I use against you is irrelevant. You're scum by extension. The only 2 feasible scum pairs are Me + 72, and you + Looker. Based off of how this is playing out. All I have to do is fell Looker, you fall, and the game is won when we hammer you D4. Not to mention how extremely obvious it is Looker is scum out of me and him. He has yet to do a single pro town thing this game. Not to mention he did some particularly scummy things, addressed in 1226. He has 15 posts. A handful are NAI, the rest are anti-Town at the least, of which, during a phase which isn't hammer or lose, go from being NAI / poor play, to being scummy. The fact of the matter is the easiest person to hammer for town is Looker. We don't have to pay you any attention, we just have to wait for Looker to fall and for you to come crashing down D4. All TTJT has to do is read Lookers 15 posts and 1224 or 1226 for a quick summary. Unfortunately for yourself, the game state allows me to completely ignore every point you make. The miracle of you and Looker winning comes to down a literal miracle from Looker,
or poor play from TTJT. Both are unlikely for what it's worth.
This is a false dilemma, given 72 and Looker is a plausible scumteam, including
from your own perspective
, and I can only figure you've ruled it out because you don't want to bus 72o and risk a LyLo with me and Looker (because you'd have to kill the Doc tonight), as you think I'll probably back him over you.

As I say, it's a scumslip that you spontaneously "know" I'm scum, and you still haven't justified it, despite supposedly wanting to engage. And your efforts in red to not-so-subtly pressure TTJT by saying it will be "poor play" from him if your buddy 72offsuit gets lynched, and then buddy him...

All looking pretty bad for you bud.

In post 1227, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 1221, TheThirteenthJT wrote:This game comes down to 72 and Looker or BM with either looker and jams. I have to do a reread and I'll figure it out. Should have eliminated me last night over Clark in all honesty.
dude i'm town, it's 72-Looker or 72-Jam. either is possible, and it's flippin obvious it's 72o over me. Look at how
both
Looker and Jam are saying it's me over 72 - one of them is definitely scum and lynches me for the win. Mason-swear.

I know it's a tough spot dude, but if you read what I've said carefully you will see it.

About the red.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1291 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:32 am

^these 2 are different. the latter is me making a case, the former is you explicitly threatening TTJT with saying he's a bad player if he gets rid of your buddy, amirite?

JamSV · Post Post #1292 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:48 am

"I know it's a tough spot dude, but if you read what I've said carefully you will see it"
Condescending, implying he can't read it properly without you telling him to.
Compared to:
"or poor play from TTJT. Both of which are unlikely
Saying he is unlikely to make a mistake

Which is more pressuring him into a particular hammer?

Battle Mage · Post Post #1293 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:52 am

i'm not going to keep going back and forth with you on this and dilute the substance. I think I've made the case coherently and TTJT can make his call, whatever that may be!

TheThirteenthJT · Post Post #1294 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:12 pm

Jams why are you so sure it can't be looker and 72? Wouldnt your choices be BM/72 and Looker if you are 100% sure looker is scum. Likewise I can't rule out you and BM since BM would have been bussing you all game.

TheThirteenthJT · Post Post #1295 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:13 pm

Also I want a confirmation from. Town that you won't all hate me if I make the wrong choice lol.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1296 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:23 pm

In post 1294, TheThirteenthJT wrote:Jams why are you so sure it can't be looker and 72? Wouldnt your choices be BM/72 and Looker if you are 100% sure looker is scum. Likewise I can't rule out you and BM since BM would have been bussing you all game.

Bussing Jam all game? I lock-towned him until midway through Day 2 when I realised he wasn't a mason.

JamSV · Post Post #1297 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:25 pm

In post 1294, TheThirteenthJT wrote:Jams why are you so sure it can't be looker and 72? Wouldnt your choices be BM/72 and Looker if you are 100% sure looker is scum. Likewise I can't rule out you and BM since BM would have been bussing you all game.

By association. 1203 and 1204 look like blatant attempts at distancing.

JamSV · Post Post #1298 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:27 pm

In post 1295, TheThirteenthJT wrote:Also I want a confirmation from. Town that you won't all hate me if I make the wrong choice lol.

I can say with certainty I won't hate you don't worry. I will be a bit gutted but it's not something to hold any form of grudge over.

Battle Mage · Post Post #1299 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:28 pm

In post 1295, TheThirteenthJT wrote:Also I want a confirmation from. Town that you won't all hate me if I make the wrong choice lol.

I won't hate you dude, given my bloody performance this game! But I'll be a bit disappointed in us collectively if we can't get 72 at least. You only need to hit 1 today, and then the pressure is probably on me tomorrow!