Newbie 2019 | Game Over!

[ItalianoVD]

I believe you, for what its worth.

It’s not worth a lot if you don’t tell us why you believe him.

Stop. Don't do this.

Don’t do what?

[Redados]

I believe you, for what its worth.

It’s not worth a lot if you don’t tell us why you believe him.

Stop. Don't do this.

Don’t do what?

Don't push people to roleclaim PRs.

[GeniusGamer]

I never posted a reads list at all. Also, my partner didn’t seem to be in too much danger. I never had a particular reason to defend them.

[Redados]

I never posted a reads list at all. Also, my partner didn’t seem to be in too much danger. I never had a particular reason to defend them.

I wish you had posted a reads list.

[GeniusGamer]

Genius not voting is off putting to me because I think scum can be afraid of how their votes will make people read them.

Really? Never heard of that idea.

TL;DR: My strongest read is on MiniMegabyte, who I think is scum because of a lack of game-advancing content. I also need to learn to condense my findings to a reasonable size.

Is there a reason you haven't voted this strong scum read you have?

as a general rule the game

will

stall out if there aren't people actively working to push it forward.

To both of you, I wasn’t planning on voting until I was really sure of the scum. Apparently, that’s a bad idea in this game. In light of this...

VOTE: MiniMegabyte

There’s probably a lot more evidence to be found before the day ends. Then again, it doesn’t hurt to vote now, I suppose.

Only a bad idea if you want to avoid suspicion?
Had you expressed a SR if mini prior to this vote?

I don’t have any reason to avoid suspicion, and I have not expressed my read prior to that post. I wanted to make sure I wasn’t misvoting town.

Originally, I wanted to make sure that I wasn’t misvoting. When you and Micc found it odd that I hadn’t voted, I decided to because it wouldn’t hurt.

Then

I realized that the information I already had was enough for a vote using my previous standards.

Genius not voting is off putting to me because I think scum can be afraid of how their votes will make people read them.

Very good point. I’ve noticed the uneasiness to solidify a decision from the start, which is also why I’m reading him the way I am.

It’s not an “uneasiness to solidify a decision”. I merely voted once I was sure that I had enough evidence. While I already had evidence, I was planning to wait for more. When it was pointed out to me that it was supposedly odd to not vote in the situation I was in, I decided to vote.

Question. What information were you looking to get? And what did Mini do at that point to give you the go ahead to vote? Well other than Micc and Porkens promoting you?

I was waiting for evidence such as a continuation of the lack of productive content. Later in the day phase, I was planning on ISO-ing her again and seeing if her posts were helpful and giving me a town-like vibe. Micc and Porkens’ prompting made me realize that I didn’t really need more evidence to vote for her at that point.

[Redados]

I never posted a reads list at all. Also, my partner didn’t seem to be in too much danger. I never had a particular reason to defend them.

I wish you had posted a reads list.

Can you post a reads list please? It's not too late. You won't out your mason partner as long as you read multiple people as town.

[GeniusGamer]

I never posted a reads list at all. Also, my partner didn’t seem to be in too much danger. I never had a particular reason to defend them.

I wish you had posted a reads list.

Can you post a reads list please? It's not too late. You won't out your mason partner as long as you read multiple people as town.

Alright, I’ll post it soon.

[ItalianoVD]

Going fishing now??

Fishing? Nah, I was simply asking you to explain why you believed him.

[ItalianoVD]

I believe you, for what its worth.

It’s not worth a lot if you don’t tell us why you believe him.

Stop. Don't do this.

Don’t do what?

Don't push people to roleclaim PRs.

I see my question implied that I wanted TBone to claim. No, that wasn’t my intention at all. I agree that there shouldn’t be a counterclaim. I wanted TBone to explain why he believed him. I assume if I didn’t ask him he wouldn’t have given us 549.

[Redados]

I see my question implied that I wanted TBone to claim. No, that wasn’t my intention at all. I agree that there shouldn’t be a counterclaim. I wanted TBone to explain why he believed him. I assume if I didn’t ask him he wouldn’t have given us 549.

Thanks for clearing that up. I think that's fair. I think everyone should give their thoughts on whether they believe GeniusGamer, but we proceed very carefully beyond that as to not out PRs.

[Porkens]

I believe him because Mason is the worst fakeclaim for mafia at L-1. Because at this point there's no reason not to Lim him unless his Mason partner claims. I'm not saying the partner needs to do it. But now that he's claimed it, we have to test it. And because we have to test it, makes it a bad move for the mafia. It's a little wine in front of me (WIFOM) but not really.

So given all that, is it better for town for the partner to come forward?

[Redados]

I believe him because Mason is the worst fakeclaim for mafia at L-1. Because at this point there's no reason not to Lim him unless his Mason partner claims. I'm not saying the partner needs to do it. But now that he's claimed it, we have to test it. And because we have to test it, makes it a bad move for the mafia. It's a little wine in front of me (WIFOM) but not really.

So given all that, is it better for town for the partner to come forward?

This would make the mafia have to waste two nightkills on the two masons, which protects everyone else. It also gives us a better chance to find the two mafia during the day today and tomorrow because POE gets a little easier.

If GG is lying and is mafia, that would force the other mafia to claim mason, which we would help us down the line I think because if we catch one mafia, we've caught the other.

If the mafia realize this and the two masons claim and then DON'T get nightkilled because the mafia knows that would make them look like mafia, then I don't know. That's where it gets a little WIFOM-y?

I'm kind of stuck in terms of what to do.

[T-Bone]

It's null I think. It reduces our elimination pool today, and expands it later assuming mafia then use their nightkills on the masons.

It's also something that we have to test absent a claim, because I don't want a like, cop or tracker to counterclaim if he is in fact, mafia. You could argue that scum!GeniusGamer didn't know that we need to test the claim and that's why he faked this over say a power role the mafia know is not in the game...but then we're left with still needing to lynch him. And that's why I think he's actually telling the truth, but there's only one way to know for sure.

[ItalianoVD]

After reading 560 & 561, which are good posts imo, my question is how does/did Genius’ claim help the town? For all I see we are in a much more perplexing position than favorable. Maybe I’m wrong. Can you ease my mind a bit?

[Redados]

If I were GeniusGamer, I would not have claimed Mason except to make us feel bad. He forces someone to counterclaim or claim Mason, and by outing himself yeah wait a minute, I don't think that did help the town. I think that's been the theme of GeniusGamer's posting, unfortunately. That's a really good point, Italiano.

[Redados]

GG's post was just meant to guilt-trip and appeal to emotion to make us feel bad for making him flip. That's how it made me feel.

If I were him, I would have given a final reads list, my final thoughts etc to try and help as much as possible before being eliminated. Maybe show something that I had crumbed or explained using my past posts why I am a townie. I don't think I would have taken the approach that GG would have.

[T-Bone]

Right, it doesn't help town.

[GeniusGamer]

Well, here it is. My first reads list. Or at least part of it. Only three slots evaluated, and it took

so

long.

• Redados: When he started, he was pretty open. He produced reads lists
  really
  early in the game, which is good. He asked and answered questions, and called people out on what he found contradictory or odd. The main reasons people found him suspicious were the change in his read of Italiano and unvoting me in the RVS, which were the reasons why I voted for him. Since then, he talked more, and I’m starting to see him as town. In particular, his reasons for scumreading me seemed genuine, and while I am town, he sounded like he town accidentally pushing a miselimination instead of mafia intentionally pushing a miselimination.
  
• MiniMegabyte: As I said earlier, MiniMegabyte wasn’t really advancing the game in most of her posts. She pushed T-Bone for his laser focus on the Micc slot much later in the game. Honestly, I’m currently getting newbie town vibes.
  
• N0bleNoob/SJReaver: N0bleNoob cast suspicion on Porkens and Redados for a while, especially the former.
  Then
  he cast suspicion on MiniMegabyte and Shelly, saying their voting and unvoting was like a made up argument between two scum players. Then he got replaced. SJReaver jumped right in with a reads list, which was good. They provided lots of analyses on the game, and I’m getting a strong town vibe from them. However, I’m not sure about N0bleNoob, so I’m confused about this slot.

[GeniusGamer]

This would make the mafia have to waste two nightkills on the two masons, which protects everyone else. It also gives us a better chance to find the two mafia during the day today and tomorrow because POE gets a little easier.

Not really. There are two masons, so killing one would make the other effectively a vanilla townie because there’d be nobody to speak with.

[T-Bone]

Only three slots evaluated, and it took so long.

Why haven't you been evaluating all day? What have you been doing?

[GeniusGamer]

GG's post was just meant to guilt-trip and appeal to emotion to make us feel bad for making him flip. That's how it made me feel.

That wasn’t the purpose of the post, though I’d definitely feel bad if I had forced someone to do what I did. The point of the post was to reveal my role so that you wouldn’t eliminate town, and to provide you with all of the information I had about the setup. It was an act of self-preservation.

[SJReaver]

Let me help, as we're getting down to the wire.

I'm town mason 2. Genius is townie.

[GeniusGamer]

Only three slots evaluated, and it took so long.

Why haven't you been evaluating all day? What have you been doing?

I was evaluating the entire time I was on the site. But rereading the thread several times, ISO-ing the three players to reread all of

their

posts, and analyzing those posts took a long time.

[GeniusGamer]

Let me help, as we're getting down to the wire.

I'm town mason 2. Genius is townie.

SJReaver is, in fact, the other mason.

[Porkens]

Genius Jellyfish - I had a slight sus about them at first because they didn't get an obvious joke, and then there was the overely long discussion about knowing how other posters think that might have worked as a side-note, but managed to dominate a page or two.

His playstyle is more mechanical than my own, so I don't know to what sense it's a communication style issue. (Italian was also part of that convo, but I read him heavily as town.)

Is this how a mason talks about their partner?