Mini 622 - Mind Screw Mafia - Das ist alles!

[remussaidow]

mod, you're numbers don't line up right on the vote count. Theres one less numeral than name voting.

Typo killed with extreme prejudice. - Tar

[Battousai]

Ok, now that everyone's voting....

I think the original reason for voting rem and grimmy are about the same, no? So those voting grimmy, would you be willing to lynch rem and those voting rem, be willing to vote grimmy? Personally I find both of them to be very scummy, but I find rem to be moreso.

[Grimmy]

Now on to the game.

Vote: Iamausername (Grimmy)

. You seem to basing you, and rem, vote solely on the fact that Iam was paranoid over the win condition in the townie PM. Your vote, however, seems different. I don't know what it is, maybe its that your not really pressing on him that much or that you unvoted him then revoted him after post 440 where I got no scum vibes from.

Iam pointed out that my vote was on Nocmen, and not him.
Hence the UNVOTE on post

439

and the new vote on post

441

My reason for voting him WAS because of assuming he is a lyncher role, which I do not think is a town role. I left my vote until someone else appears that seems scummier. Im looking through the game now to see if that has happened. Im going in order from my vote, though, to see your case against me.
UP to this point, it seems pretty weak. I need to see if it picks up steam as the game went on.

Grimmy
part 1

[Grimmy]

I don't think that IAM is a lyncher type role, but don't know what he is at this point or why he has the information he does. I haven't yet decided what to think of him, but I don't think lynching him today will do any good since we don't know yet if yos is telling the truth or not.

If yos is still around tomorrow then we know he is lying and can deal with that, but again, no use lynching him today until we know.

I reread through grimmy, and while nothing in particular stands out as scum, something about him just rubs me the wrong way. I can't quite put my finger on what it is. I don't like that he won't let the issue of yos and iam wait a day. When the conversation changed to another topic, he jumped back onto iam immediately almost like he was afraid that people would stop looking at iam if we talked about something new.

I realize that the yos and iam situation is interesting, but like I've said, I don't think we will draw many conclusions from it today and therefore don't understand why grimmy wants to keep so much attention on it.

So are you voting him because you think he's scum, or because he's not helping the town?

to repeat, I left my vote on him until someone scummier appears.


Grimmy
part 2

[Grimmy]

Part 3: some questions

Cavebear and Bat.

Besides leaving my vote on Iam, (reason I will repeat in a minute), what else makes you think I am scum?

Bat,
Why are you so adamant in your defense of Iam? To me, the fact that I voted for Iam seemed to be the reason for your initial vote. You seem to be defending him more than he defends himself. it also seems that your votes against me AND rem are because we voted for Iam. I do see how rem's other posts would make him suspicious, your reasoning makes you suspicious to me.

fos: Battousai

On another note, it seems that Iam is only defending himself half-heartedly.

To Me( bolded to prevent "thats a stoopid reason" replies)

it seems he wants to back away from his slip-up, which may be why bat is workign so hard to protect him. This pairs them up as a scum pair in my eyes.

Im leaving my vote on Iam, and think bat is his partner.

More to follow

Grimmy
part 3

[Grimmy]

Question for Iam also.

besides my vote on you, why do you think im scum?

Your vote seemed like a joke at first (the smiley face and the two posts afterwards), but you have left it on while others added thiers to the wagon.

So what is your reason for voting for me?

Grimmy
defending himself, which in Iams own words, is NOT scumtell

[iamausername]

remus is calling me scum because I defended myself too much, and Grimmy is calling me scum because I didn't defend myself enough. Awesome.

[Battousai]

Grimmy, I'm not defending Iam. Rather, I'm attacking the accusations thrown at him, for they, IMHO, are asinine. For one thing, you claim Iam could be a lyncher. Guess what? Lynchers lose if their target survives. Therefore, lynching a lyncher is like lynching Yos right now, a wasted lynch. One other attack on Iam is that he doesn't know the town win condition. Ok, he said he wanted to lynch Yos because a survivor is a different faction than the town, IIRC. Then rem votes him because he doesn't know the town win condition. His whole vote is based on semantics of what faction means. Another reason I find you scummy is that your vote reason was, I don't think your town aligned. You didn't give a reason at the time for Iam to defend against.

[Grimmy]

remus is calling me scum because I defended myself too much, and Grimmy is calling me scum because I didn't defend myself enough. Awesome.

welcometo the world of Married Men.

we would issue you a t shirt, but our wives wont let us have the money to make them.

grimmy
...with children

[remussaidow]

actually Iam, I'd have to stop and think for a second, but it seems to me that continuously using the same argument to defend oneself and defending oneself halfheartedly are not exactly opposite of each other.

[Grimmy]

Grimmy, I'm not defending Iam. Rather, I'm attacking the accusations thrown at him, for they, IMHO, are asinine. For one thing, you claim Iam could be a lyncher. Guess what? Lynchers lose if their target survives. Therefore, lynching a lyncher is like lynching Yos right now, a wasted lynch.

IN retrospect, it seems now to be more of a slip up that he was hoping nobody would call him on, more so than just not trusting a lyncher. And it wouldnt surprise me that is he IS a lyncher, and doesnt lynch YOS, then he will get something more harmful to the town (activated vig or something along those lines)

One other attack on Iam is that he doesn't know the town win condition. Ok, he said he wanted to lynch Yos because a survivor is a different faction than the town, IIRC. Then rem votes him because he doesn't know the town win condition. His whole vote is based on semantics of what faction means.

This falls into the category of looking scummy when trying to fake a role. This is why Rem may have called him on it. You would have to ask Rem to be sure. But since its a point that REM used for his vote, I cannot use it as a reason for you voting for me. Which leads to...

Another reason I find you scummy is that your vote reason was, I don't think your town aligned. You didn't give a reason at the time for Iam to defend against.

This I can understand.
So now that I have further explained me reasons for voting Iam, and have given him a chance to defend himself (which IMHO, he has not done successfully enough to have me change my vote), how does this affect your suspcions of me. Right now, you suspect me and Rem as scum. Who would you consider as a third option?

Grimmy
wonders who is third in your T Mobile top 5

[Grimmy]

Also, I disagree with your denial of defending Iam. I still beleive you are. if it becomes a bigger issue later (IE: making my case vs you), ill quote them. For right now, Im time restricted and focusing my vote on Iam.

Grimmy
c u 2 morrow

[iamausername]

What exactly is this 'slip-up' you keep talking about me having made, Grimmy?

[Tarhalindur]

"That is not dead which can eternal lie, and over strange aeons even death may die."

Despite the sudden surge of posting today, for the sake of the game you Fail the Second Mod Deadline Review. Final Deadline set: ~6:00 P.M. Central Standard Time (GMT -6), August 13, 2008.

The Forty-Eighth Vote Count (aka the "Quoth the Raven..." Vote Count):

Vote Count:

Battousai (0)
remussaidow (2)
Grimmy (rep. Musher333) (2) - remussaidow, Grimmy (rep. Musher333), Nocmen
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0)
Nocmen (0)
Yosarian2 (0) - Jex, Iamausername
iamausername (3) - Battousai, Cavebear with a toothache

Not Voting (1): Yosarian2

Votes required to lynch: 5

FoS Count:

Battousai (1) - Grimmy
remussaidow (0)
Grimmy (rep. Musher333) (1) - Battousai
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0) - Battousai
Nocmen (0)
Yosarian2 (0)
iamausername (0)

Final Deadline:

~6:00 P.M. Central Standard Time (GMT -6), August 13, 2008.

[Battousai]

Grimmy, I'm not defending Iam. Rather, I'm attacking the accusations thrown at him, for they, IMHO, are asinine. For one thing, you claim Iam could be a lyncher. Guess what? Lynchers lose if their target survives. Therefore, lynching a lyncher is like lynching Yos right now, a wasted lynch.

IN retrospect, it seems now to be more of a slip up that he was hoping nobody would call him on, more so than just not trusting a lyncher. And it wouldnt surprise me that is he IS a lyncher, and doesnt lynch YOS, then he will get something more harmful to the town (activated vig or something along those lines)

All that is, is speculation about roles. You have no proof that would happen at all. Nothing that would give the idea of that happening except with mafiassk. But even then it wan't too farfetched to think he would come back since he admitted to having a reviving ability.

Another reason I find you scummy is that your vote reason was, I don't think your town aligned. You didn't give a reason at the time for Iam to defend against.

This I can understand.
So now that I have further explained me reasons for voting Iam, and have given him a chance to defend himself (which IMHO, he has not done successfully enough to have me change my vote), how does this affect your suspcions of me. Right now, you suspect me and Rem as scum. Who would you consider as a third option?

1) Just because you later rectify the situation by giving him a chance to defend himself, it doesn't excuse the original offense

2) I honestly don't think there are 3 more scum (that would equal 4 scum plus a townie who becomes scum when lynced). It just seems too overppowered. I would guess 2 at max (depending on town powerroles that haven't been revealed). The only other person that I can see as scum right now is probably Jex. That's mainly due to his lack of posts lately.

[Nocmen]

Remus, everything you say is starting to make less and less sense.

[Cavebear with a toothache]

Part 3: some questions

Cavebear and Bat.

Besides leaving my vote on Iam, (reason I will repeat in a minute), what else makes you think I am scum?

First of all, let me say something about my view on iam. The case on iam isn't invalid; the trying-to-get-Yos2-lynched thing could very well be an attempt to get him lynched for different reasons than the one stated. The problem is that I think it would be a wasted lynch for scum as well as town, leaving the possibilities of iam being either a lyncher or paranoid town (or paranoid scum, I suppose). Well, I doubt he's a lyncher, as I've already said (yes, it's mind screw mafia, it's a possibility and I'm not ruling it out). That leaves the paranoia reason, and in that case, I'm inclined to think "town". That's my take on iam right now.

Now then, what makes me think you're looking scummy? (Just for the record, there's a difference between saying "X is looking reasonably scummy" and "I think X is scum". Don't put words in my mouth etc.)
Let me start off by saying that voting someone because you think they've acted the scummiest today is a perfectly valid reason for voting. The problem is that it's not as good when it comes to convincing people to voting, as it pretty much by definition relies on people's opinions about what's scummy. Whereas iam has been acting somewhat scummy, I actually think that being on his wagon for what I consider to be not very good reasons is scummier.

Anyway, I'd rather lynch remussaidow.

IN retrospect, it seems now to be more of a slip up that he was hoping nobody would call him on, more so than just not trusting a lyncher. And it wouldnt surprise me that is he IS a lyncher, and doesnt lynch YOS, then he will get something more harmful to the town (activated vig or something along those lines)

I did a quick search on games with lynchers (seems they're pretty rare) and couldn't find a single useful role PM, so I have no idea what would happen if a lyncher's target is someone with an independent win condition who wins in the middle of the game. I'm not sure if it's happened before. Logically, he'd probably lose. Failing that, I'd guess the same thing would happen as if the lynchee was NK:ed; standard procedure for that seems to be to revert to townie. Anyway, it's pretty dangerous to base anything on role speculation in a game like this, so I prefer not to. In other words, I don't consider the risk of iam being a lyncher who transforms into SK (vig would be harmful?) to be significant enough to warrant lynching him.

If you guys want me to hammer someone, let me know; I don't really care

we figured that out already yos- you, as the survivor, have it in your best interests to hammer anyone at all.

For information purposes, I'd prefer it if someone else than Yosarian2 did the hammering... But yeah, a Yosarian2 hammer is better than no hammer at all.

[remussaidow]

Cavebear (and everybody else), I'd like to point out that since its in yos's best interest to hammer anyone and everyone who gets into range today- and thus, in effect, this means that whoever puts the actual target at lynch -1 should be looked upon as the actual hammerer, seeing is that is the effect that they would be creating.

[Tarhalindur]

"You think in such three-dimensional terms."

The Forty-Ninth Vote Count (aka the "In His House at Ry'leh Dead Cthulhu Waits Dreaming" Vote Count):

Vote Count:

Battousai (0)
remussaidow (2)
Grimmy (rep. Musher333) (2) - remussaidow, Grimmy (rep. Musher333), Nocmen
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0)
Nocmen (0)
Yosarian2 (0) - Jex, Iamausername
iamausername (3) - Battousai, Cavebear with a toothache

Not Voting (1): Yosarian2

Votes required to lynch: 5

FoS Count:

Battousai (1) - Grimmy
remussaidow (0)
Grimmy (rep. Musher333) (1) - Battousai
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0) - Battousai
Nocmen (0)
Yosarian2 (0)
iamausername (0)

Final Deadline:

~6:00 P.M. Central Standard Time (GMT -6), August 13, 2008.

[Battousai]

Why is hammering so bad? Everyone has made their arguments and defenses. People have been at L-2 and have not claimed, so hammering them, IMHO, would be equal to any other vote on them.

[Jex]

To answer cavebears question from awhile ago: I don't find iam scummy at the moment, at least not nearly as scummy as other people.

As for my lack of posting, I said before that I have very limited connection as I'm in the middle of moving from one house to another. Should be better next week.

I still find grimmy to be suspicious. I don't agree with his argument on iam. He seems to think that something absolutely horrendous will happen if Iam doesn't get lynched right now, and I don't understand the logic behind that. Even if iam is a lyncher, after today I don't believe that anything dramatic will happen if his target dissapears. Plus, grimmy used a vigilante as a possible bad scenario if Iam became one, yet a vig is a protown role so I don't see why it would be that horrible. Its a weird choice to use in your worst case scenario spiel.

Rem is also high on my list of shady individuals. His arguments aren't very sound, and again I don't understand the need to be going after Iam at the moment. He also seems to have wild ideas of cults appearing and us being at lylo if we don't lynch iam right now. I agree with those that spoke of rem setting up lynches for tomorrow.

At this point I could vote for either grimmy or rem. They are almost equal on my scumdar because they both seem to be using the same tactics and arguments

[iamausername]

I'm going to

Unvote, Vote: remussaidow

[Nocmen] at this point. I'm still not entirely sure why he's voting for me, although I assume it's because I'm supposedly a lyncher or something similar. (If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me, Nocmen).

More to the point, his last post looks like he's setting himself up to hop over to the remus wagon, since it's gaining traction, and mine has obviously stalled, and since I remain fairly confident that remus is town, I don't like that.

[Tarhalindur]

"Unto my experience, Aldaris, all that you have built here on Aiur is but a fleeting dream... a dream from which your precious Conclave shall awaken, finding itself drowned in the greater nightmare. "

The Fiftieth Vote Count (aka the "You Have Less Than One Week, Act Accordingly" Vote Count):

Vote Count:

Battousai (0)
remussaidow (2) - Iamausername
Grimmy (rep. Musher333) (1) - remussaidow, Grimmy (rep. Musher333), Nocmen
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0)
Nocmen (1)
Yosarian2 (0) - Jex
iamausername (3) - Battousai, Cavebear with a toothache

Not Voting (1): Yosarian2

Votes required to lynch: 5

FoS Count:

Battousai (1) - Grimmy
remussaidow (0)
Grimmy (rep. Musher333) (1) - Battousai
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0) - Battousai
Nocmen (0)
Yosarian2 (0)
iamausername (0)

Final Deadline:

~6:00 P.M. Central Standard Time (GMT -6), August 13, 2008.

[Tarhalindur]

"You're thinking in Japanese, aren't you? If you must think, do it in German!"

Yosarian2 is being prodded and has received a Rules Infraction for Rule 15 violation. Should he need prodding again I will consider more drastic measures.

Announcement: Rule 10 has been updated for clarity. The new text of Rule 10 may be found in the rules post. - Tar

The Fifty-First Vote Count (aka the "Your Lack of Posting Disturbs Me" Vote Count):

Vote Count:

Battousai (0)
remussaidow (2) - Iamausername
Grimmy (rep. Musher333) (1) - remussaidow, Grimmy (rep. Musher333), Nocmen
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0)
Nocmen (1)
Yosarian2 (0) - Jex
iamausername (3) - Battousai, Cavebear with a toothache

Not Voting (1): Yosarian2

Votes required to lynch: 5

FoS Count:

Battousai (1) - Grimmy
remussaidow (0)
Grimmy (rep. Musher333) (1) - Battousai
Cavebear with a toothache (0)
Jex (0) - Battousai
Nocmen (0)
Yosarian2 (0)
iamausername (0)

Final Deadline:

~6:00 P.M. Central Standard Time (GMT -6), August 13, 2008.

[Yosarian2]

So, yeah. I'm still here. Still don't care who gets lynched. La la la.