Mini Normal 2153: Post-game

[UnaBombaH]

Ok I'm properly pocketed let's just take the safest shot

VOTE: Replacement for Sujimichi

This worries me.
Simply because you are willing to put Bella on hold

again

, but I'm sure you will definitely return there tomorrow (again).
And don't get me wrong, I'm fine with RfS being the lynch over Bella/bob, but I'm just struggling to find the logic behind your voting here.

Basically the vibes I'm getting here say that is RfS and Bella are town, then Isis is scum.
And the partner is either Bella (and you've been putting a lot of distance between each other), or it's one of gera/N_M.

[UnaBombaH]

I think it's like Hoopla/RfS/Bella GG

I mean, I guess your vote makes sense if you think this is the full solve.

[UnaBombaH]

RfS and Bella

are

town, then Isis is scum

The "and" here should obviously be "or".

[UnaBombaH]

And now I put the italics on "are" instead of "and"...
Fck me sideways.

But yea, for Isis to be town I'm thinking both of RfS and Bella almost have to be scum.

[Isis]

I am like
not very fazed by that requirement even though with 7 players alive trying to make 2 perfect reads I should be

It's those two at least half the time.

Especially RfS

[UnaBombaH]

N_M and gera are the "wildcards".
I don't think I've seen scum!N_M ever? I'm not even sure what it would look like.

I hope gera can give his perspective soon as well.
I think they were the only one to out any major suspicions towards Isis yesterday?
Not sure if that was scummy (guess that'd make me scummy too for having these lurking suspicions), or the complete opposite.
I'd argue it's almost towny to doubt universal townreads at this point? Dunno.

[UnaBombaH]

I am like
not very fazed by that requirement even though with 7 players alive trying to make 2 perfect reads I should be

It's those two at least half the time.

Especially RfS

OK, so you want to go RfS today?
And if they flip scum, we move onto Bella?

[Isis]

Mm, we can take an analysis break at that juncture but I would heavily lean Bella yes

[geraintm]

N_M and gera are the "wildcards".
I don't think I've seen scum!N_M ever? I'm not even sure what it would look like.

I hope gera can give his perspective soon as well.
I think they were the only one to out any major suspicions towards Isis yesterday?
Not sure if that was scummy (guess that'd make me scummy too for having these lurking suspicions), or the complete opposite.
I'd argue it's almost towny to doubt universal townreads at this point? Dunno.

wildcard how? as in you don't know what I am, or what I am going to do?

VOTE: Not_Mafia
I don't actuall think I wanna go there today, I just want to cause Fredrick to post a votecount so I can like visualize the gamestate

Should we massclaim this phase or next phase, I don't play tons of normals. I think it's generally done at eLo -1?

these are the two bits from isis that I find interesting today.
like, I disliked isis yesterday and I don't think they have done much today I like either

[Replacement for Sujimichi]

Hectic also posts X to doubt memes have you been studying? ^_^

Votes must be in the format of

VOTE: PlayerName

or VOTE: PlayerName, or they shall not be counted. Abbreviating someone's name is acceptable, so long as I can discern who you were voting for without trouble. If I think it should count as a vote, it will.

[Replacement for Sujimichi]

Isis, why are you willing to bet the game on Not Mafia being town? What do you TR his predecessor for?

Same question goes to everyone else.

[Replacement for Sujimichi]

UnaBombaH
geraintm
Bellaphant
Isis
Not_Mafia
bob3141

Isis is confusing me, and I don't like her push on me at all, but she did hardpush Hoopla this game.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Isis

[Bellaphant]

I am starting to think Isis is just town. She voted hoops before the pressure started (and even though she states she is the reason that wagon took off, which I believe is wrong, I believe she believes that).

I'm concerned that scum want to drag us to lylo together under the assumption we'd just cross vote: for me that isn't the case.

I wish gera would give more opinions and push something. It worries me that the dominant voice is una, who isn't actively pushing a scum read, just lining up lynches and trying to get a compromise lynch today.

Reads: Isis, Gera (NM) one of bob/RFs ( highly doubt it's both) and Una.

NM is someone I just can't read 100% right now.. what was the vote switch about?

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: Hoopla

Hoopla (6): Isis, Klick, Bellaphant, notscience, UnaBombaH, Dunnstral

This is hoops wagon. From my pov - I think it's really odd if this wagon is all town.

So unknown, town town town, unknown, town.

Does scum! Isis randomly vote hoops and stay on all wagon because she can't jump off? Maybe, but the motivation for the vote in the first place isn't really there.

Does Una jump on for bussing credit? More likely.

[Bellaphant]

Some interactions from hoops

I got a weird vibe from Bob and that's ..fine?

how exactly?

Soft defending bob

on tone, i like bellaphant for town, and will be relying on her klick-expertise early in the piece. please keep me posted.

unabombah has continued his fervent energy from last game and is my other top pick for town. i haven't seen enough from notscience yet to extend the invitation.

i like isis' capricious nature, though that's probably a personality thing rather than anything alignment related.

~~

TOWN BLOC FIRST DRAFT

(no scum allowed this time):

hoopla (president)
bellaphant
unabombah

to be continued...

townbloc (+Isis). My inclusion in this was weird at the time, I am not a dominant day one force, but hoops tries to create links to Bella/isis/Una all day.

@una

is notscience scum? i don't want to believe it. i think it would break my heart.

i'm suitably convinced with galron's progression into this game. i was concerned his early game coolness was an act. it turns out he is actually just cool.

UNVOTE:

bella, we might have to jump ship...

Can you spell 'pocket'?

UNVOTE:

UNVOTE: - I locked myself out of my apartment.

town bloc assemble!

is it coincidence? perhaps fate? two important town voices silenced and without a vote; drifting.

meanwhile, a sizzling new wagon opens up?

if this isn't fate, then i don't know what is.

Hoops trying to create a tie between my slot, Una and her

in the interest of working my way back into the game, i am going to do something shocking.

my intuition tells me i may have been wrong on klick - especially upon seeing porken's entry into the game. given i was reading bella as town in relationship to klick's scumminess, i have come to believe i was actually reading them backwards.

VOTE: bella

one of the lemonade-sipping scumbuckets.

more to come

...

one of Bella or klick must be scum.

Announcement: Bellaphant is on V/LA until 21/7/2020 12:00:00 GMT+0.

quick, lets get her while she's away!

Does scum do this to a scum buddy? Why?

is it possible i have been wrong yet again with my d1 town bloc declarations?

i bravely called una and bella unequivocally town and wrote them off. now they are both starting to seep into the forefront of my mind. no wonder mafia didn't kill me last night, when i have been such a loyal ally.

Una and Bella again.

another post in which i reevaluate my reads.

after reading geraintm's posts on d2, i think he may actually be town. his looking for popo-related connections appears earnest, and when i reflect on why i thought he was scum in the first place... i believe those feelings were inadequate. i was too heavily relying on early-wagon science (the first wagon-pivot after the RVS wagon often being scum). i had this idea in my head, and wasn't really reading his posts as closely as i should.

based on the way the back half of yesterday went, i believe all our major wagons were town.

scum really were sitting back sipping lemonade it seems.

bella/notscience/una is probably where i'm looking today, and i need to reevaluate isis. i believe i liked her attempts of reading me yesterday, citing a nice balance of paranoia that was nuanced and hard to fake - but i believe her paranoia has tipped over into being uncritically expressed as fact now.

lazy or suspicious?

tbc...

Bella and Una -and- not science. The possibility of all three being town seems low.. plus more psuedo science about wagons being all town..

hmm, it seems the tides have turned and it looks like a bella vs. sujimichi battle.

bella is back and has found her voice.

sujimichi's hilarity is slowly waning. thanks for the memories.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: sujimichi

We could vote suji. Or Bella. I've heard that before recently....


My point is, all game hoops made these weird three way connections between me and Una. Either she's : scum and all three of us are scum and hoops is really bad at scum : scum and both of us are town and hoops is really good at pocketing or scum and only one of us is town and the other is the tactic of hard town reading your scum buddy.

[UnaBombaH]

I am starting to think Isis is just town.

OK now, what is going on in here?
You've suddenly "woken up" to this scumread on me, and almost simultaneously Isis is just town?
You know what vibes this give to me?
You're suddenly seeing an Isis-wagon as a potential reality, and somehow this has prompted a reaction from you.

Now I would like to hear how/why that is a thing.

[Isis]

Isis, why are you willing to bet the game on Not Mafia being town? What do you TR his predecessor for?

Same question goes to everyone else.

I'm not

[Isis]

Una what is your preferred exile order? I'm trying to think about something

Bella also

[UnaBombaH]

Hoopla (6): Isis, Klick, Bellaphant, notscience, UnaBombaH, Dunnstral

This is hoops wagon.

From my pov

- I think it's really odd if this wagon is all town.

So unknown, town town town, unknown, town.

Exactly, your PoV.
And like I said earlier, from my PoV one/both of you/Isis almost has to be scum with the way things have been rolling.

But instead of you going for Isis today, you have suddenly realized that they are town and I'm more likely to be scum?
Even if i said I'm not voting you today, and have been working on what Isis wants all day?
I'm honestly not following your train of thought here at all.

[UnaBombaH]

Una what is your preferred exile order?

RfS-> Bella/Isis depending on what RfS flips.
If anymore exiles are necessary at that point, it's a crazy coin toss between N_M and gera I guess?
Like if RfS is green, I really think you are the only reasonable lynch Isis. Going to be honest with that.
If RfS flips red, it's definitely bella next and I'll worry about tomorrows after that if necessary.

If RfS flips red, then I guess I'll admit to a Bella-flip next, and we potentially just win. Or we at least should have one more day because only one more scum should remain, and we should be able to talk it out somehow.
If RfS flips green, I'm probably dead tonight and it's just Isis+someone I'm not suspecting. Basically bob/Bella I guess.
The way bella has been posting today kind of creeps me out, because it smells HEAVILY like Bella+Isis.
Are you able to see that?
Makes me wonder if it's really scum!bella planting seeds for *something* or town!bella getting paranoid, but the narrative they are laying out is weird to me.

[Bellaphant]

Hoopla (6): Isis, Klick, Bellaphant, notscience, UnaBombaH, Dunnstral

This is hoops wagon.

From my pov

- I think it's really odd if this wagon is all town.

So unknown, town town town, unknown, town.

Exactly, your PoV.
And like I said earlier, from my PoV one/both of you/Isis almost has to be scum with the way things have been rolling.

But instead of you going for Isis today, you have suddenly realized that they are town and I'm more likely to be scum?
Even if i said I'm not voting you today, and have been working on what Isis wants all day?
I'm honestly not following your train of thought here at all.

If you look at those wagons, though, like I've been doing, it's really hard to see Isis as scum - look at that hoopla wagon, read who's reasons work on that wagon. .I don't want to town read Isis, but her play doesn't make sense as scum.

I'm scum reading you because of the hoopla flip and the interactions I just dived for. Behaving as if my reads changed over night with no info is weird. I'm also scum reading you because instead of actually pushing scum,....you know what, I said this already. Find scum, stop lining up lynches, and then we'll think about my read on you..

[UnaBombaH]

My point is, all game hoops made these weird three way connections between me and Una. Either

she's : scum and all three of us are scum and hoops is really bad at scum

:

scum and both of us are town and hoops is really good at pocketing

or

scum and only one of us is town and the other is the tactic of hard town reading your scum buddy

.

Like, for example this makes no sense to me.
I'm not sure if bella is forcing these connections out of nothing, or she KNOWS THEY ARE THERE.
All I've ever read into posts like these from Hoopla, was that she was playing the "townbloc-builder"-game.
Whether I thought she was going to flip scum or town (at that point), all these posts ever meant for me, was that she was building and "playing at" a bloc.
Nothing more. And I've even said it before (in this game or the last) - Hooplas MO is playing a tightly knit group.
As scum, and as town. But it's not the same thing as mentioning her scumbuddy in a townbloc and making "3-way connections".

And I colorcoded the post just to make sure I understood it correctly, but yea..bella just mentioned all the variations.
Even the one where she and I are both scum.

[Bellaphant]

If I'm scum with Isis we just vote RFs here, why would I be bothering to dive in hoops' iso or do wagon analysis?

P-edit? What? I'm trying to make town think here, Una, not dictate the game state. .

You can't see all my quotes and say I'm making up connections. Try and find them for other people.

Why would I, as scum, point them out?

[UnaBombaH]

Find scum, stop lining up lynches, and then we'll think about my read on you..

This is just mean-spirited. I am trying to find scum, and I am NOT lining up lynches.
Do you know how these games are often solved, or how they often end up when scum win the game in LyLo?
There's a thin line there, especially with NO RESULTS to speak of, whatsoever.
Me discussing THEORETICAL LYNCHES with Isis is more about me forming an opinion on what she wants, than it is about me lining up any lynches.