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[Billy Pilgrim]

That he didn't want to respond to my questions. He could have humored me?

This can't be scum right? The game can't literally be this easy? Of like the worst push in the world for the weakest possible reason actually being scum? Right? I mean it can't be right?

[Datisi]

hi all. this is my first game on the forum.

VOTE: nopoweroverme

Datisi, why you lying?

who, me? lying? i would never.

you disagree those bailey posts are +town?

[JamSV]

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim
Watford.

[Billy Pilgrim]

hi all. this is my first game on the forum.

VOTE: nopoweroverme

Datisi, why you lying?

who, me? lying? i would never.

you disagree those bailey posts are +town?

I dont do tone reads so I dont have much to say on them one way or another. But I definitely don't think they're slips.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Icon

NPOM seems like he's pretty inexperienced. No way scum comes out and actually goes SRS MODE in RVS. The real goof here is Icon trying to make that seem scummy.

(In fact, NPOM was a pretty easy misyeet D1 in a recent game I played. He was similarly overeager to scum hunt, and the scum team just sat back and let that be a fail. Only took slight prodding to make it an all town wagon. NPOM was town vig that game.)

[Snowblaze]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Icon

NPOM seems like he's pretty inexperienced. No way scum comes out and actually goes SRS MODE in RVS. The real goof here is Icon trying to make that seem scummy.

(In fact, NPOM was a pretty easy misyeet D1 in a recent game I played. He was similarly overeager to scum hunt, and the scum team just sat back and let that be a fail. Only took slight prodding to make it an all town wagon. NPOM was town vig that game.)

...wait, hang on. You're saying that he was miseliminated by an all-town wagon, with scum just sitting back and letting it happen, in a previous game.

And you also think Iconeum is scum for scumreading him, when you've just established that town have scumread him previously.

Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim
Watford.

Right, I forgot to comment on this. This guy has to die. That 3-0 right before COVID hurt.

[Billy Pilgrim]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Icon

NPOM seems like he's pretty inexperienced. No way scum comes out and actually goes SRS MODE in RVS. The real goof here is Icon trying to make that seem scummy.

(In fact, NPOM was a pretty easy misyeet D1 in a recent game I played. He was similarly overeager to scum hunt, and the scum team just sat back and let that be a fail. Only took slight prodding to make it an all town wagon. NPOM was town vig that game.)

...wait, hang on. You're saying that he was miseliminated by an all-town wagon, with scum just sitting back and letting it happen, in a previous game.

And you also think Iconeum is scum for scumreading him, when you've just established that town have scumread him previously.

Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?

This post is townie. Dont agree with the conclusion but I like the thought process.

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim
Watford.

Right, I forgot to comment on this. This guy has to die. That 3-0 right before COVID hurt.

VOTE: JamSV

My Liverbird is coming for you.

[VP Baltar]

Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?

The point is NPOM is an easy target for a misyeet. In the game I referenced, my scum team was more careful and let the NPOM misyeet happen without having to participate much (iirc, one scum member quick hammered). The particulars from any game to game are going to differ. How is that confusing for you?

I think it's scum motivated because it's unlikely scum is going to come out both barrels in RVS the way NPOM did. Scum are timid little babies, afraid to attract attention to themselves early on in the game. I'm saying Icon goofed by thinking "oh, here is an easy push I can hop on to look like I'm scumhunting."

[hellbooks]

VOTE: george bailey
Iconeum tring GB seems p towny but i actually think his entrance was scummy
dont think that the thing snowblaze said was towny at all
hi VPB, hope we can work together this time around

[Testarossa]

We're past the RVS, in case you didn't notice.

GB has three votes on him.

How did the GB wagon put us past RVS? Literally all three votes at that time were RVS votes, if I am generous I count your vote as non-RVS and even then it's rather eehh. You seemed to be fine with those though.

Why did you just lament about the lack of "reasoning" of the votes on you without even asking if there may have been reasoning instead of just belittling them like you did in 34?

[Testarossa]

I actually feel good with my vote on NPOM for now. My rvs vote on him was semi serious as that what GB pointed out about NPOM's questions is something I agree with. I am not necessarily bothered by his defensive attitude after my vote, but his behaviour doesn't feel townie like his immediate reaction or the way he shifts the defensive accusation to GB in 71, apparently missing the humoristic tone in GB's response. After VP's post I want to reread a few games of NPOM though to verify if this kind of behaviour is normal for him, when pressured.

Ah, fair enough. I find scum always asks small pedantic questions to seem townie.

So it just pinged me as such.

this post was made from a town perspective, and isn't easily faked
it reads very authentic and i'm concluding GB is likely town with an offchance this is actually faked (but unlikely)

I don't really care about the semantics like townslip etc., I wonder in context of 38 if missing the GB "townslip" is rather negative for NPOM, why doesn't it matter for Snowblaze, who apparently also missed this? Or is it just because NPOM was implying he was actually scumreading GB?

That said, I believe that Icon's observation on GB is coming from a town mindset, at least based on my first impression of him as he strikes me as someone who impulsively seems to put some genuine trust in supposed tells that he figures out. So this can be my first townlean.

[Testarossa]

That he didn't want to respond to my questions. He could have humored me?

This can't be scum right? The game can't literally be this easy? Of like the worst push in the world for the weakest possible reason actually being scum? Right? I mean it can't be right?

I don't like this post. I can't really put my finger down what exactly it is. If it's the tone, the exaggeration, feeling kinda fake or whatever. This post was before VP stepped in with a contra opinion regarding NPOM, when Icon was more or less dominating the conversation. I was wondering what your stance on NPOM was by this post as it comes across you take this on in a jokingly approach, which more or less looks slightly like indirect shade on NPOM, because it didn't come across to me you were thinking of awkward/bad/whatever town here. But then again you already said a few posts before in 97 that NPOM feels really testy, which sounds to me like you are tending to at least suspecting him as this is pretty much the argument that Icon and Datisi used to scumread NPOM.

So can you clarify this please? Because later after this post you decide to throw out a RVS vote, which looks weird to me considering I had the impression you were leaning on NPOM.

[Testarossa]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Icon

NPOM seems like he's pretty inexperienced. No way scum comes out and actually goes SRS MODE in RVS. The real goof here is Icon trying to make that seem scummy.

(In fact, NPOM was a pretty easy misyeet D1 in a recent game I played. He was similarly overeager to scum hunt, and the scum team just sat back and let that be a fail. Only took slight prodding to make it an all town wagon. NPOM was town vig that game.)

This assumes NPOM is town.

Like I get your thought process here in addition with your second post. But if NPOM is pretty inexperienced and an easy miselim for scum, what stops him from playing haphazardly as scum too? Scum that are going try-hard and struggling with it on page one is not necessarily something rare imo. Why do you think he is town here? Or is it rather just a consequence of you scumreading Icon?

[VP Baltar]

Like I get your thought process here in addition with your second post. But if NPOM is pretty inexperienced and an easy miselim for scum, what stops him from playing haphazardly as scum too? Scum that are going try-hard and struggling with it on page one is not necessarily something rare imo. Why do you think he is town here? Or is it rather just a consequence of you scumreading Icon?

Nothing stops him from being haphazard as scum. I'm just saying, generally speaking, scum are a cautious breed, especially early in the game.

I don't know what his scum meta is. But based on my experience with him when he was town, this would fit with his play.

Curious why you find it convincingly scummy, though willing to give you time to scan some NPOM games and come to your own conclusion on his play as town.

[Datisi]

baltar, could you elaborate on why you find nopoweroverme's early game as too bold to be from scum, while not icon's? i wouldn't classify icon's play so far as cautious/timid, you would?

[VP Baltar]

baltar, could you elaborate on why you find nopoweroverme's early game as too bold to be from scum, while not icon's? i wouldn't classify icon's play so far as cautious/timid, you would?

Because NPOM was attacking GB for an obvious RVS vote. If you're scum, that's pretty clearly not going to do anything but bring you trouble. Whereas I could totally see an overeager town newbie (NPOM has only been on the site for a couple months) doing that because they aren't worrying at all about trouble, just earnestly trying to find scum.

The above feels super obvious to me, so Icon going after that would fit as scum. I'd expect a scum might push on it because it is easy to portray a terrible point from NPOM as "scummy". Contrary to what you're saying, it does feel like a timid play to me given NPOM seems like an easy target.

[Andresvmb]

Hello all! I’m excited to play my first game here. Let me catch up I was not aware the game had started already. Oh and for those that will ask about my experience or where I come from - I typically play on a small rather newish forum called Mafia451. I think I’ve played north of 100 games there (if you go to it you’ll quickly realize I play basically every game). So that’s a bit of background about me. I don’t recognize anybody from the playerlist so this will be fun, though I did read a few games around the site just to get a feel for the meta here.

[Testarossa]

Nothing stops him from being haphazard as scum. I'm just saying, generally speaking, scum are a cautious breed, especially early in the game.

I don't know what his scum meta is. But based on my experience with him when he was town, this would fit with his play.

Curious why you find it convincingly scummy, though willing to give you time to scan some NPOM games and come to your own conclusion on his play as town.

Tbh I was hoping for something more ingame related, but very well, I figure for the beginning it would be enough.

I find him scummy for what I already pointed out + I don't really feel like he were really trying to get a read on Icon in their long exchange and was either concerned about himself or GB. Although you can interpret the latter indirectly as that.

Personally after going through his games including the scum games on his alt I feel as expected that it is too soon to argue with meta, because I think so far he might be both in town and scum range. The only time where he was pressured early was as scum when his first post was already defensive (because he already had votes) which got responded with four votes in the next four posts. I feel he has as scum more of that sassy/mocking tone, when voted and he feels more sorting as town. There are interesting differences, but for so early I don't see any useful pro/contra arguments per meta tbh so I would rather roll with seeing more from him here.

[VP Baltar]

There are interesting differences, but for so early I don't see any useful pro/contra arguments per meta tbh so I would rather roll with seeing more from him here.

I agree with this. I could easily be wrong too. This is quickly starting to feel like we are making overly strong points based on minorly different reads of a short exchange. We need more people posting and getting the game juices going

[Testarossa]

Yeah, that's probably not that unlikely.

On another note, what is your first impression of Billy?

[NoPowerOverMe]

A) i don't think inoc is scum. She's just trying to read me.

B) I'm not inexperienced. I have played as another alt.

C) my playstyle tends to attract attention. I try to use that to my teams advantage on both sides, but me being mislynched as town is not uncommon.

D) I'm considering switching my vote from GB but he's not making it easy by not posting.

[VP Baltar]

A) i don't think inoc is scum. She's just trying to read me.

B) I'm not inexperienced. I have played as another alt.

C) my playstyle tends to attract attention. I try to use that to my teams advantage on both sides, but me being mislynched as town is not uncommon.

D) I'm considering switching my vote from GB but he's not making it easy by not posting.

[VP Baltar]

Whoops phone goof.

NPOM, you mind sharing your alt?

Why do you think you're misyeeted as town so much? Why are you trying to telegraph a vote?