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[Datisi]

Datsi

can you talk about this read a bit more?

[NoPowerOverMe]

Which part doesn't make sense? you've claimed a lot of things don't make sense which actually do, so I'm not putting to much stock into that.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Datsi

can you talk about this read a bit more?

You seem willing to communicate and are trying to figure people out, rather than acting like you already know.

[Iconeum]

Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?

The point is NPOM is an easy target for a misyeet. In the game I referenced, my scum team was more careful and let the NPOM misyeet happen without having to participate much (iirc, one scum member quick hammered). The particulars from any game to game are going to differ. How is that confusing for you?

I think it's scum motivated because it's unlikely scum is going to come out both barrels in RVS the way NPOM did. Scum are timid little babies, afraid to attract attention to themselves early on in the game. I'm saying Icon goofed by thinking "oh, here is an easy push I can hop on to look like I'm scumhunting."

1) says NPOW is mislynchbait. Last game his wagon was all town-motivated. Icon is pushing him now. Therefore Icon is scum. How does this work exactly?

2) says scum are timid little babies and not gonna wanna attract attention. How has this been my play so far? I've not been afraid to stick my neck out or to engage. I've stated MY opinions and am fighting for those. Completely contradictory to what VP says scum are gonna be. Yet he scumreads me for it. How does that work?

3) accuses me of hopping on an easy wagon, while it's the opposite of what I did. I defended someone I thought was town. If I wanted to go for the easy wagon, I'd have voted GB (unless you think the team is exactly Ico + GB lol). So how does that work?

There is not a single point of what he's saying is scum that is connecting to my play, but ends up with a hard scumread on me anyway.

[Iconeum]

Ico is being way to much of a literalist and not looking at intent and subtelty. This doesn't seem townish to me.

HOW THE FUCK IS THAT AI INDICATIVE AND NOT A PERSONALITY TRAIT

[Iconeum]

i'll be back later when i'm cooled down

[NoPowerOverMe]

1) I'm assuming he's guessing that you are smart enough to sense mislynch bait and you think I am it, and that eliminating me would lead to a similar result as the last time I was day 1 eliminated for little or no reason. He's not wrong, as you are holding on to your assumptions way to strenuously.

2) I think you're being a literalist here again. Obviously different players play town and scum differently. You should ask him about his scum reads, not me.

3) I think a lot of people think that you started defending GB too quickly. All I did was ask a few ice breaker questions and you decided I was trying to eliminate him.

In general, you are holding on to your opinions to tightly even in the face of opposition, and even when there is good/logical reasoning against them. Just because you say something loudly doesn't make it true. And either you are scum who is trying to hard to get town lynched or you are just communicating badly.

[Iconeum]

1) I'm assuming he's guessing that you are smart enough to sense mislynch bait and you think I am it, and that eliminating me would lead to a similar result as the last time I was day 1 eliminated for little or no reason. He's not wrong, as you are holding on to your assumptions way to strenuously.

Part of what ur accusing me of is not taking perspective and motivation into account. Ur wrong. It's exactly why his read is so bad. Because from his pov and in his experience, my push on you comes from town and not scum. But he scumreads me for it nontheless.

[Iconeum]

3) I think a lot of people think that you started defending GB too quickly. All I did was ask a few ice breaker questions and you decided I was trying to eliminate him.

maybe i was wrong in defending him that early, but i still found it odd you ended up scumreading him despite him looking townie

[Iconeum]

you are holding on to your opinions to tightly even in the face of opposition, and even when there is good/logical reasoning against them

This has won me my best games, as town. Even very recently.

i'm not gonna stop doing that

[Iconeum]

I'm a stubborn type of player, sure. But don't you for one minute think it's a scumtrait.

[Iconeum]

1) I'm assuming he's guessing that you are smart enough to sense mislynch bait and you think I am it, and that eliminating me would lead to a similar result as the last time I was day 1 eliminated for little or no reason. He's not wrong, as you are holding on to your assumptions way to strenuously.

Look at this from HIS pov. He literally said that in that particular game, you got mislynched easily. And that scum had to do nothing for it. Everyone pushing you in that game was TOWN.
How does that make him scumread me for doing that, in this game? Where is the logic from his pov?

[NoPowerOverMe]

I see your point. You'd have to ask him to elaborate i can't speak for him.

[Iconeum]

also i've got the feeling you ain't really reading my posts as well. I've got the feeling you think i'm hard scumreading you.

[Snowblaze]

@NPOM, can you explain your hellbooks townlean? I'm not really getting any read from her posts so far.

[VP Baltar]

1) I'm assuming he's guessing that you are smart enough to sense mislynch bait and you think I am it, and that eliminating me would lead to a similar result as the last time I was day 1 eliminated for little or no reason. He's not wrong, as you are holding on to your assumptions way to strenuously.

Look at this from HIS pov. He literally said that in that particular game, you got mislynched easily. And that scum had to do nothing for it. Everyone pushing you in that game was TOWN.
How does that make him scumread me for doing that, in this game? Where is the logic from his pov?

I actually explained this already. I think it was snowblaze who asked me?

I was actually thinking I might have been wrong in my initial scum read of you, but your completely over the top reaction and OMGUS to a single vote is very interesting.

Let's get some more votes on Icon pls. Hellbrooks, testarossa, we got a live one over here.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

Not really away from NPOM, but I feel it's locking too much into NPOM/Icon and I don't really like Billy's posts or what he isn't doing atm.

Tell me more. I'm also interested in this.

[hellbooks]

how are you coming to a scum!Icon conclusion when i'm standing in front of everyone, clearly not afraid to speak out and DEFINITELY not afraid of drawing attention?
when you just say scum are likely NOT to do this?

i was TRing you for the GB townread thing & you're not wrong but this comes across as someone frustrated that they're not getting the credit for trying to take a controlling part in the game

Huh ok, suddenly so many Icon posts lol

yea. like what do u think about them

I find myself hard agreeing with most of what VP Baltar has already explained regarding Iconeum’s push on NPOM, which I thought was too much on what seemed to me as mildly defensive. So I’m going to place VP Baltar as a Town Lean, though I’ll admit that he certainly sounds like he’s been around, so could be fooling me with the tone.

and in case this is all a big ol' town brawl going on, this is scum

not a bad take. I think scum likes to take an active role in controlling the outcome of situations like this but stick to the immediate sidelines. see: andres, snowblaze.
VOTE: andres

datisti

sorry

3) accuses me of hopping on an easy wagon, while it's the opposite of what I did. I defended someone I thought was town. If I wanted to go for the easy wagon, I'd have voted GB (unless you think the team is exactly Ico + GB lol). So how does that work?

bad

Let's get some more votes on Icon pls. Hellbrooks, testarossa, we got a live one over here.

i'll consider it

[hellbooks]

scum vibes from testarossa too. no i will not be explaining at this time

[VP Baltar]

scum vibes from testarossa too. no i will not be explaining at this time

Oh wow, this is a completely different wave length from me. Interesting, interesting.

[Snowblaze]

@hellbooks: what’s your current read on me? You’ve mentioned not finding my earlier post towny and my doing something scum are likely to do - does this imply you think I’m scum?

[hellbooks]

Join forces with me and together, we can scumread the whole world

[hellbooks]

@hellbooks: what’s your current read on me? You’ve mentioned not finding my earlier post towny and my doing something scum are likely to do - does this imply you think I’m scum?

short answer: yes.
long answer: most of your actions as of late have seemed to ask people to clarify something or other which could be genuine or could be busy work, am waiting to see how you follow up on these things

[Andresvmb]

I think what Iconeum is doing is somewhat remarkable. I’ll say this upfront and perhaps this is an area of disagreement with VP - yes, Scum can be cautious early, but there’s more than a few players that much prefer to be aggressive and push their way, particularly when the Town seems disorganized.

183 and 184 are quite interesting, in that they miss the heart of VPB’s point. VPB appears to be arguing (I will caveat, this is what I’m interpreting the argument to be) that NPOM’s entrance was abrasive, which is probably more likely to come from Town than Scum (Scum being careful and all). And then, arguing that Iconeum is taking advantage of NPOM’s defensive entrance to push a player that Iconeum knows is prone to being voted by Town, since Town might easily misread NPOM’s defensiveness for scuminess (and have done so in a previous game). Not completely unreasonable. Iconeum seems offended by this argument, and first votes VPB for making it (saying his conclusions don’t make any sense), and then me for agreeing.

189 is funny. Iconeum and I have never played before. They have no idea how I play Town or Scum, how I phrase my arguments as either alignment, or what my skills/weaknesses are. Yet they seem to believe that they can point to one post of mine agreeing with another player and come to the definitive conclusion that I’m Scum. Notice that it also comes as a hedge regarding their vote on VPB, followed by a switch onto me in 193. Yet after all of that, they feel like they need to speak directly to me, asking me to re-read VPB’s ISO. Why? If I’m surely Scum, then what is there to convince me about?

Now, again, I’m not trying to say I know for a fact that Iconeum is Scum. That would be absurd. And it’s just not a skill I have. However, the reaction is obviously way over the top, and I don’t see the Town motivation. Not everyone that believes you are Scum can be Scum. But instead of probing or trying to figure out where we are coming from, the primary response was aggressiveness followed by two votes.

208 - I am wholly unmoved by this, and it’s just a blatant appeal to emotion. I mean this is an obviously Scummy post.

[Andresvmb]

Ah no wait, 210 seems to actually explain the reasoning behind the SR on me - my “huge fencesit opening”. I thought the meta here involved being somewhat detailed about your views. Can someone explain this one to me? Because from where I sit, this looks like a completely made up reason justifying an action taken after a vote on them.