Open 788 - Crossfire - Game Over

[Chemical Elements]

No, and that's not my question. Now that I know you know me, so I am asking why -with your knowledge of my play- you find me scummy. When people don't know me they tend to SR me for my posting style anyway, and I've made peace with that fact. It's those who know me whom I find a bit strange to SR me for my posting style.

I don't find you scummy.

[Elements]

@Elements - Why do you think he's town, and what's suspcious about Hayasaka/I putting him on D-1?

neither you or hayasaka were voting for the scum flip and then you voted a50 who I think is town

[Isis]

This game is going well o.O
Though, I didn't contribute orz

VOTE: Lavender
VOTE: Hayasaka
UNVOTE: Almost50
UNVOTE: Chemical Elements

I don't want to find and quote A50 but this should serve as an answer. I like how the second group is reacting to the scumflip better than the first group, generally.

I think Nono is town. If Nono knew Clone was a partner, I think he would have had his vote off Clone so he could hammer. Nono doesn't seem like he'd restrict himself the straightest of play.

[Casey]

Geeeet dunked on!

Next dunk, cleaning up the Almost50 trash:

@Almost50: Your votes are on the most sane person here, the ESL guy who I swear I thought you said was town and is NOT in your #328, and your only comment on hellbooks as far as I can tell is that he's mafia if someone else flips mafia.

Your vote on Wey is good at least. One out of four ain't bad.

Who is ESL?

My votes were on hellbook, Marks, WLC & Nono.

I am voting hb for inconsistencies and vague postings (agreeing to a TR on someone w/o elaborating what exactly they agree). mainly check my 329, 330 & 331. Nobody said anything about it being a conditional read!!!

I was voting Marks mainly for his vote on IV with the remark that we needed to eliminate/dunk someone ASAP.

I voted Nono for the vote on IV too, plus every other post of theirs just rubs me the wrong way (take the "I wanna hammer" troll for instance, or their vote on me in 368, just off the top of my head)

Finally, WLC I was voting for what appears to me now as a clash in playstyles. I also had assumed he was much more experienced than he really is (although if we go just by total post count he's look like 4-5 times as experienced as you are, adespite the fact you both have really old accounts)

Also, in my 328 I said I was sus of how the wagon on IV was building, but it was not the sole/main reason for me to vote anyone. It was just a pool I'd be digging into (more of a self-reminder, if you will).

Other than that I still don't know who ESL is, and I did not vote anyone outside these 4.

Bus means voting/pushing for a scum partner. I think you mean just being opportunistic in general.

Ah, okay, thanks; I misremembered then, thought it was werewolf/mafia jumping in last minute to lynch with fellow scum.

Um... I've just checked your topics. Did you really stop playing since 2012? Is this your first game in 8 years?? Geez! I seem to ALWAYS have a playstyle clash with the "old guard", so..

UNVOTE: WLC until I can figure you out.

[Casey]

@casey: You said you'd unvote when I've "earned it". What would it take for me to earn it?

You had your chance. It's too late to come crawling back. You can jump into your bed of nails now.

[Elements]

UNVOTE: marksman
VOTE: lavander
VOTE: a50

[Hiraki]

Don't you remember the conversation we had several days ago where you were saying what else could he possibly have meant and I thought that he might have not even suspected those slots given his use of the word many instead of all but didn't say so because I didn't want to give him an answer to Marksman's question?

I am not following this at all. Can you quote please?

Yes. My hypothesis is that no scum are on the wagon. To test the hypothesis, we could dunk two people that are not on the wagon. If both of them flips town, the hypothesis is wrong. If one of them flip scum, we continue to dunk more people who were off the wagon, I guess. If the two we dunk turn out to be town, I don't know what to do.

So you've now left mafia up to a betting game?

UNVOTE: isis
Why are people voting spicer?
they have one post.

Correct- which is why I asked sell me and got a nice little "why would you ask that lol??"

[Chemical Elements]

Don't you remember the conversation we had several days ago where you were saying what else could he possibly have meant and I thought that he might have not even suspected those slots given his use of the word many instead of all but didn't say so because I didn't want to give him an answer to Marksman's question?

I am not following this at all. Can you quote please?

How did you know what type of answer he would have given?

Because there literally is no other reason. It is a yes or no question where if you answer "Pineapples" as an answer, it doesn't make any sense. So congrats, if Wey comes in here and decides to tell us that he's voting them because a Pineapple told him, you've proven me wrong. Instead, I'm going to actually read the game where the three haven't posted and realize that he is voting them because they haven't posted and suspicion is a bad word. But

again

that is missing the point that Marksman didn't even think this far and just saw the word "suspicion", latched onto it because there is nothing to be suspicious of, and set-up a "GOTCHA!" based on the fact that this is clearly the situation. But again - I know you think that Wey is going to come in and say Pineapples for some reason still.

However, that isn't the only answer he could have given. He could have came back and said that I found them suspicious because (I actually have thought of something, but I, unlike you, am going to wait if he actually says this).
These are only a few samples from

They're not "suspicious" for not posting. I am voting to pressure them. You telling me you've never voted someone you're null reading or even townreading them to motivate them to post more?

Perfect - there it is. You're now questioning him based on verbiage rather than intent? That is a terrible way of scumhunting, if you are genuine.

For me, being suspicious of someone means you dislike them for specific reasons. Maybe it's because Wey thinks scum are more likely to lurk start of game. Or maybe it was an oversight from scum!Wey and he gave reasoning without thinking about first. I asked him the question to solve him. You needleslly stepped in and answered for him. That's scummy.

What ANSWER does he give other than "they didn't post yet"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

You needleslly stepped in and answered for him. That's scummy.

Yes, I helped him cheat on the exam. The question? What is 2 + 2?

THEY DIDN'T POST ANYTHING, WHAT ELSE COULD HE BE SUSPICIOUS OF?

This is a small sample of the times we spent together a long time ago. By the way, in looking for those posts, the following posts caught my eye.

Wey said he found them suspicious. I'm not saying they're suspicious, I'm voting to pressure them to post. Clear difference.

Mostly due to the help with vote count,

and general participation.

Must take a rocket scientist, I guess.

What? That was his explanation for finding ChemElem town. Nothing to do with the 3 names I voted. Read it again?

For context here is the full post 88 by WeyounsLastClone without any trimming.

@Wey - Why Chemical Elements for proactive town?

Mostly due to the help with vote count, and general participation. I guess post #66 could/should have included reasoning, but it included most names that I found/find suspicious as well, so maybe in my head helped me think of him as town.

Yes. My hypothesis is that no scum are on the wagon. To test the hypothesis, we could dunk two people that are not on the wagon. If both of them flips town, the hypothesis is wrong. If one of them flip scum, we continue to dunk more people who were off the wagon, I guess. If the two we dunk turn out to be town, I don't know what to do.

So you've now left mafia up to a betting game?

Isn't that what this game has always been? You bet that this player is the scum and, if the majority agrees with you, they place their bets there. If they win the bet, they get a slight advantage if they manage to place some more correct bets. If they are wrong, they bet again.

UNVOTE: isis
Why are people voting spicer?
they have one post.

Correct- which is why I asked sell me and got a nice little "why would you ask that lol??"

[Hiraki]

This is a small sample of the times we spent together a long time ago. By the way, in looking for those posts, the following posts caught my eye.

Right - are you saying that I'm defending him? Again - I don't know how I'm defending him if he didn't say anything. You're insinuating what Marksman said that I've "given him the answer" to the easiest scumtell quiz in the world. If that's what you wanna go for, go for it. I don't really think it's necessary to talk about it further considering that we've done this multiple times now across different people.

You bet that this player is the scum

Ah, see? That's currently not what you're doing. You're betting that the scum team (which I'd like to remind everyone is now 3) is in a pool of 6. So, even if you are correct, you've now drained the pool down to 6 people, out of 13, with 3 of them being scum. That is a low betting game.

If they win the bet, they get a slight advantage if they manage to place some more correct bets. If they are wrong, they bet again.

What is the slight advantage? Being right? That doesn't exist. You can be right about one thing and then wrong about another. Being right about one thing does not mean you will be right about another. It just means you will be more influential. If that is the advantage, that is certainly not an advantage I would think a townsperson would have.

[innocentvillager]

This game is going well o.O
Though, I didn't contribute orz

VOTE: Lavender
VOTE: Hayasaka
UNVOTE: Almost50
UNVOTE: Chemical Elements

I don't want to find and quote A50 but this should serve as an answer. I like how the second group is reacting to the scumflip better than the first group, generally.

I think Nono is town. If Nono knew Clone was a partner, I think he would have had his vote off Clone so he could hammer. Nono doesn't seem like he'd restrict himself the straightest of play.

I can get behind this post

[Ruby Red]

[vote[hayasaka[/vote]
VOTE: marksman

@mod would you mind correcting this

No, just make another post.

[innocentvillager]

[vote[hayasaka[/vote]
VOTE: marksman

@mod would you mind correcting this

No, just make another post.

[Elements]

VOTE: hayasaka

[Casey]

Glad to see almost everyone posted thoughts. I wish I could be as coherent as some of you with your thoughts and analyses, my mind goes all places reading the different interactions and suspicions. But I'll give it a stab anyway:

Thinking town
Marksman - lot of content, and while that's not necessarily townie, I think he posts valid thoughts (although sometimes making mountains out of molehills, but that might be just my opinion ) and keep things going
Casey - Starting the game late, but brings the heat and some decent posts with interesting analysis
Chemical Elements - not to rehash the whole discussion again, but the initial posts and help with vote counts gave me a town-vibe. But slipping more towards neutral, not sure if post 101 was serious or trying to get more votes on innocent

Either way
Hellbooks - initially thought she was trying to create chaos and leaning scum, but I guess that's her way of posting. and it's funny, which always helps
Hiraki - A bit hit and miss, sometimes slightly opportunistic, but happy he understood my post that caused the stir.
Isis - started to post a lot, then a bit less (or it could have been night, not sure where she's from). Felt maybe a bit too serious from the start.
Lavender - Could be a real confused townie, but could be an excuse as well. Not sure as scum why you'd post stuff like that, but as town you could easily read the thread and see them both posting. If it was just uncertainty who to vote for I could understand, but ChemElement/Elements has been addressed even before.
Hayasaka - Maybe I don't trust her as she's voting for me, but not sure I follow her reasoning in initial posts 131 and 132
Elements - Opportunistic vote on Casey, don't get much from the other posts made

Leaning scum
Nono - Still find his posts non-coherent, and then goes V/LA
spicer1209 - with lack of posts, need something more than that initial post. Want to read his thoughts before putting actual vote in though.

I really don't know about innocentvillager anymore. Voting for just everyone still doesn't sit well with me, but actually the way he interacted after that and updated his suspicions seemed quite town.

Unvote: innocentvillager

waiting for content:

Vote: ileileile

Hope I didn't miss anyone

Reviewing Wey's only list.

Marksman: Wey seems genuinely afraid of Marksman.
Me: I called him out on his BS read of me and dunked accordingly.
Chemical Elements: This read is problematic. Someone he doesn't believe is town is shoved in the townpile. Rereading Chemical Elements, his #407 makes me feel townie about him. He interacts heavily with Almost50 and Hiraki, so I feel fine about Chemical Elements.

Hellbooks: Are all the scum just saying "my buddies aren't scummy any more now that I understand them"? Because that would be wild.
Hiraki: Another "happy we understand each other" read.
Isis: This read is readless.
Hayasaka: This read requires additional research that I'm not willing to do at this time.

Lavender/Nono: Here, Wey comments essentially the same thing for both Lavender and Nono, but is nicer to Lavender. More indication Nono is town.
Spicer: Blank read.

Elements: Wey says clearly that Elements placed an

opportunistic

vote on me. Yet Elements isn't even leaning scum for that? Red flag here.

Biggest takeaway from this is Elements is mafia.

[Casey]

VOTE: hayasaka

Never mind on that Hayasaka read. Elements pretty much confirms Hayasaka is town.

[Casey]

What in the world is this..?

I think A50 is town

also why are people voting a50 so readily?

@Elements - Why do you think he's town, and what's suspcious about Hayasaka/I putting him on D-1?

neither you or hayasaka were voting for the scum flip and then you voted

a50 who I think is town

5 posts later...

VOTE: a50

The only thing I did was quote A50's stupid Wey unvote. Was that really enough to change your tune??

[innocentvillager]

Elements: Wey says clearly that Elements placed an

opportunistic

vote on me. Yet Elements isn't even leaning scum for that? Red flag here.

Biggest takeaway from this is Elements is mafia.

why would scum!Wey go out of his way to opinionate that the vote was opportunistic on scum!Elements and not put Elements into the scum bucket?

[innocentvillager]

i get a weird vibe from Hayasaka

Light FoS: Hayasaka

[innocentvillager]

anyway we need to dunk again, we have like 8 more dunks to go and it seems we are getting penalized for twilight. I can dunk A50 if needed, he's just null to me atm

actually, we should try to predict when RR will be on and dunk right before then.

[Marksman]

VOTE: Lavender

@Ruby Red

- Is Spicer being replaced?

We have less than 10 days left, people. Put your votes down and dunk.

[Marksman]

UNVOTE: innocentvillager

[Ruby Red]

@Ruby Red

- Is Spicer being replaced?

Yes, I'm searching for a replacement.

[Marksman]

I could take the slot and dual wield if required. Just PM me and I'll be happy to help.

[Hiraki]

I can agree with Lavender.

Vote: Lavender

[Lavender]

I think I'm at L-1 now. (o.o;;;)

I don't agree with no scum being on the Wey wagon, seems very unlikely.
I think the way A50 is playing is like the one game where they were Vanilla Town and destroyed my team.

Uh, me thinking CE and Elements were the same was just an honest mistake, I posted without thinking or checking. ╮(￣ω￣;)╭