Mini Normal 2157 | Over

[Raya36]

Official Vote Count 1.07

Cereus jamacaru "Spiral Cereus"

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Elimination

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate someone.

NoPowerOverMe

(2): Alduskkel, Billy Pilgrim

Billy Pilgrim

(1): Testarossa

Iconeum

(3): jankofan, DkKoba, Andresvmb

Snowblaze

(2): GeorgeBailey, VP Baltar

DkKoba

(1): Iconeum

Andresvmb

(1): NoPowerOverMe

hellbooks

(1): Snowblaze

jankofan

(1): Datisi

Not Voting

(1): hellbooks

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-08-13 23:15:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[NoPowerOverMe]

I've seen players say they don't D1 scumhunt and end up town. It's not AI. Some of your other points are valid.

[VP Baltar]

baltar, do you think i should be townreading you by now? or like, do you think you've done things worthy of a townread?

My general experience is most people stay suspicious of me (or at least skeptical) until deep in the game, regardless of alignment.

It's a mixed bag. On the plus side, scum tend not to NK me early because suspicion is always kind of on a simmer. Downside is when I'm town I have a harder time getting people on my side when I'm making very sound points because they are suspicious of me for

~reasons~

(often that they can't explain).

I think it's bc I have a Hunter Thompson avatar instead of a cute cartoon character, but I'll never change.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Mini Normal 2143
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83102

What I'm trying to say is that me not scumhunting is NAI.
(And even then people have told me that townhunting is still scumhunting, which i disagree with, but whatever)

Sakura Hana

Vanilla Townie

- Killed Night 3

[VP Baltar]

Wow cool. A different person in a different game did a different thing.

Anyone making a point that "one time I saw a person do this thing as the other alignment, and therefore that thing is never AI" is incorrect. You can make that argument about literally any point probably. You need to look at probability. Scum are less likely to be able to genuinely scumhunt D1 because there isn't much material to work with and they are trying to fake something out of nothing. Town's advantage D1 is they are genuinely trying to find scum and don't have to fake anything.

[VP Baltar]

No D1 scum read is going to be perfect, but Billy and snowblaze fit the coasting scum MO pretty well. I'm quite confident one of them is scum.

[NoPowerOverMe]

I think you are overgeneralizing. Players that are good at playing scum should be good at appearing to scumhunt. It just depends on your skill level. My point is that you can't say player X is definately scum because they said "D1 scumhunting is hard."

[VP Baltar]

I think you are overgeneralizing. Players that are good at playing scum should be good at appearing to scumhunt. It just depends on your skill level. My point is that you can't say player X is definately scum because they said "D1 scumhunting is hard."

I think you're overgeneralizing what I said about snowblaze.

Also: odds are, not every player who drew a scum PM is good at being scum.

[Snowblaze]

How is anyone seeing this as town?

1) complains about getting wagoned when never facing any actual pressure
2) says she can't scumhunt rn because it's D1
3) THEN says she's definitely not being useless, despite just saying she's not pushing the game forward.
4) then says "jk if I am useless, it's not AI"

UNVOTE:
VOTE: snowblaze

Complaining about being wagoned is NAI. I just hate it as either alignment.

I never said I couldn't scumhunt because it's day one, I said I don't usually have strong scumreads on day one. That doesn't mean I'm not scumhunting.

And, you know, I'm not being useless. I'm engaging with people, I'm giving reads, I'm looking at things that interest me. That is not useless.

I do think that being useless to town is NAI, yes. Scum can make themselves useful, town can not be useful. It depends a lot more on the player than their alignment.

[Datisi]

VOTE: snowblaze

[NoPowerOverMe]

@snowblaze: How do you rate yourself as a scum player and a townplayer?

[Snowblaze]

@snowblaze: How do you rate yourself as a scum player and a townplayer?

I'm still fairly inexperienced, so I... don't really know? I'm bad at trying to objectively analyse myself.

As town I've had some decent games, some terrible games, some in between, most that end in me yelling at myself for some reason.

I've had one or two good scum games offsite, and two terrible ones on site, but I haven't rolled scum anywhere in a while so I don't really have a measure of scum!me's current capabilities.

[DkKoba]

ico: lol if ur not FOSing me ur town

[NoPowerOverMe]

DKK how about your opinion on the matter at hand?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: snowblaze

ya'll can shout at me as much as you want for this vote

but i think it's needed to get the game moving

[Snowblaze]

You townread me. Why are you doing that?

[Iconeum]

Because this game needs another wagon. My townread on you isn't strong enough to fight against my townreads, AND my scumreads to defend that.

[Iconeum]

basicly datisi and VP

[Iconeum]

everything's going round in endless circles, and there's no progress.

there's no counterwagon

there's no Obvious change in gamepass or situation, which means scum are content with the way things are

time to spicen things up a bit i'd say

[NoPowerOverMe]

This wagon has 1 scum read(VP), 1 null read(GB) and two twon reads(Datisi and Inoceum, but Incoem's vote is based on it's other townreads and not it's specifiically) This looks like a policy wagon to me. If I saw VP and GB as town I might join, but I don't, so I'm not going to.

[Iconeum]

also given the fact that i'm obviously lacking scumreads, it means i'm wrong on at least 1 end of my reads

wouldn't hurt to follow others in this

[Snowblaze]

I don't think scum are going to have any problem with my being wagoned, but fair enough, I suppose.

[Snowblaze]

This wagon has 1 scum read(VP), 1 null read(GB) and two twon reads(Datisi and Inoceum, but Incoem's vote is based on it's other townreads and not it's specifiically) This looks like a policy wagon to me. If I saw VP and GB as town I might join, but I don't, so I'm not going to.

How is it a policy wagon? I wouldn't say my behaviour has been particularly anti-town.

[Iconeum]

NPOW... you were nullreading VP when he was pushing me, at a time when you were scumreading me. You were townreading datisi when she was townreading me, but you still scumread me.

Now when VP and I are somewhat more alligned, you scumread him and townread me?

And when all these players start alligning votes on somehow whom obviously hasn't done a lot to make itself widely townread, you instantly defend it?

[NoPowerOverMe]

@Snow, who is scum then?