Mini Normal 2157 | Over

[NoPowerOverMe]

Test wagon > Andres wagon

[Snowblaze]

Let's counterwagon.

VOTE: Andresvmb.

why do you townread testa?

Instinct, mostly. Hard to pin down anything specific, I just don’t think she’s going to flip scum. (Not very helpful, I know. Sorry!) (Also probably sympathy since I was just flashwagoned to E-1 myself.)

But I’m voting Andre more because I scumread him than because I townread Testarossa.

[DkKoba]

so u read thru their iso and think their posts are town? Can you point out what posts/ group of posts make u instinctively think they are town?

[Snowblaze]

so u read thru their iso and think their posts are town? Can you point out what posts/ group of posts make u instinctively think they are town?

I can try...

113 is the kind of read I think scum would struggle to fake.

I like the logic in 310.

I think the thought processes in 858, and I like that she's still townreading NPOM despite that (I know your theory is they're scum partners, so that wouldn't hold as much weight in that instance.)

[Snowblaze]

At least I think his willingness to win people over for Billy or Snow might have been more town motivated here as they aren't really interesting miselims for scum.

I know I said I was going to ignore VPB, but I have to point out that someone flashwagoned to E-1 is probably an interesting miselimination for scum.

[DkKoba]

is mafiascum your first foray into mafia games? just asking a genuine question so i can better judge your reads

[Snowblaze]

is mafiascum your first foray into mafia games? just asking a genuine question so i can better judge your reads

I played a few games on another forum before I started here, but that's a lot less Serious Business than here. So for all intents and purposes, yes.

[Datisi]

i have read pretty much nothing from the last few pages but i saw janko jump on the wagon without addressing anything so UNVOTE:

i'll read in depth later

[DkKoba]

lol? wtf

[Datisi]

i need a shit ton more answers from janko so no way i'm currently voting for this wagon

[DkKoba]

i smell a bullshit copout to stay on the wagon and help it dissolve but aight

[Datisi]

you do know that not everyone who doesn't follow you blindly is scum, right?

[DkKoba]

ur timing and reasoning is not Town (:

[DkKoba]

a) they were at E-2
b) ur reasoning has nothing to do with anything testa said??? and to do with someone ELSE voting them??? because bussing doesn't exist? the fact t hat this angle was ignored im shocked
c) you need "answers" but where are the questions??

[Datisi]

> sees a scumread who has been lurking the whole time, without addressing literally anything asked his way, jump out of the shadows to put a very fast wagon to L-1 then disappear again
> ur resoning is nOt tOwN )))))))))

pedit: lmfao yeah it has nothing to do with what testa said, i saw my scumread vote there and i'm sure as fuck pumping the breaks on that

"bussing exists" yeah sure and if janko/testa are scum together that is the literally shittiest bus in all of existence and i would sooner bet on them being s/t

i asked him something, it's somewhere in my iso, also like no comment to literally anything that's going on

[Datisi]

It's absurd how difficult it is to get pressure on Billy or Aldus, but Snow skyrockets to E-1 in an instant.

can you elaborate on this? like i get it for billy somewhat (since baltar was also voting there for a bit and he is A Presence), but literally the only time anyone said something about aldus was you commenting how you're not feeling really positive and asking me what i think. that's not exactly pushing?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Iconeum bases her reads based almost entirely on how people react to her alone.

She doesn't seem to have the capability to step outside of her shoes and put herself into someone else's situation.

She tends to hyperfocus on someone when she thinks she is being wronged.

This is my psychoanalysis anyways. She has acted scummy, but the more I think about her interactions the more she seems town.

This post is slightly townie.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Whereas in this game scum (you) have chosen to jump on them early and use the concept that NPOM is safely pushable to attract neutral/positive attention early in the game. Pretty sure thats what vp's point was? Anyway my read on you extends past that concept and includes your progression from the early push even though it does circle back and tie in vp's initial argument.

How could I have known that NPOW is or isn't a safe push? I've never played with the dude before.
What progression did I make according to you?

I mean, you could probably tell based on just their first few posts, i think. And i think i explained before its like there was an agenda to starting a fight with them then and there, it just didn't seem towny to me. And ever since then its like, you're sort of overeager to engage with people but only about the idea that they're SRing you because you think if you can draw enough attention to the topic of you being scum then people will be convinced you'd never be so brazen unless you were town. and thats unnatural to want to do as town imo because what would that even achieve?. and the bits where you're scumhunting don't seem sincere in comparison.

You seem really committed to the idea that icon did the "easy push" on NPOM which is pinging me a bit. Wrt engaging with people that are scumreading you, you think that can't be related to a mentality to solve? You don't think you can find scum from the way that people case you?

[Snowblaze]

I really should go through my reads and try and get somewhere with my large null pile.

DkKoba is ??? - my gut says they’re town but I don’t know why and I’m town on more or less all of their scumreads, so I’m just going to set them aside for now and try and get a solid read when we have more information to go on.

Alduskkel remains solidly null, no matter how many times I read his ISO.

GeorgeBailey is the weakest of townleans.

jankofan is a scumlean, but not a confident one. Although that E-1 definitely needs better explanation.

Billy Pilgrim remains a weak townlean.

All of these feel like I’m having to force myself to get reads that aren’t just “null”, which probably means those reads are thoroughly unreliable.

[Billy Pilgrim]

janko, do you think getting annoyed at people pushing you is scum!indicative?

talk to me friend

hey there! umm its context dependant and playstyle dependant. on the whole no, both alignments probably tend to get annoyed at being pushed. Although town might be annoyed i feel like they have a strong focus in and around scumhunting and that should be visible despite their frustration. Whereas, scum can just get a bit tunnel visioned defending themselves and having a lack of general awareness about the game and other slots since they naturally have to manually direct energy toward scum hunting since they feel defending themselves and tunnel visioning on their own pressure are more vital prospects. Whereas town are naturally inclined to scum hunt and task themselves with figuring out whether those pushing them are scum. I feel like scum would focus more on the pressure/push arguments (like what i think icon is doing) whereas town would also be visibly focusing on the persons pushing them and who is scum in general.

how many reference games would you like where i react like this and i am town? Like, how many would you need to see in order to believe this comes from town!Ico?

God I see this and I think its scum, but I know from playing with Ico this aggressive self-meta is solidly within his town range.

[Billy Pilgrim]

janko, do you think getting annoyed at people pushing you is scum!indicative?

talk to me friend

hey there! umm its context dependant and playstyle dependant. on the whole no, both alignments probably tend to get annoyed at being pushed. Although town might be annoyed i feel like they have a strong focus in and around scumhunting and that should be visible despite their frustration. Whereas, scum can just get a bit tunnel visioned defending themselves and having a lack of general awareness about the game and other slots since they naturally have to manually direct energy toward scum hunting since they feel defending themselves and tunnel visioning on their own pressure are more vital prospects. Whereas town are naturally inclined to scum hunt and task themselves with figuring out whether those pushing them are scum. I feel like scum would focus more on the pressure/push arguments (like what i think icon is doing) whereas town would also be visibly focusing on the persons pushing them and who is scum in general.

What do these two things look like in practice, because this to me doesn't look much different.

[jankofan]

Hey @datisi so the reason I neglected to answer this

i'm not sure i get this? like to me it feels ico is solving and it also focused on the persons pushing them? like can you elaborate on this?

also, you're townreading me, yeah? (i'm assuming by 436) how come, i feel like our reads are complete polar oppsoites right now?

was because koba said this immediately after

ico exhibiting the scum mindset of being frustrated over being scumread over what they perceive as the "wrong reasons"

which is what I was trying and failing to say in the original post you quoted. I guess it was lazy of me to have expected you to make that connection and it looks like you just wanted a response from me and not necessarily a response to what you were asking me to clarify, so here it is.
jumped on the testa wagon because it seemed good and i didn't really have that much to add to the case so why talk for no reason yknow

[Datisi]

ya i wanted a response from you, which is why i asked you specifically? because the part i quoted in 456 just seemed like very made-up-bullshit to justify your ico vote so i was hoping you were actually gonna elaborate on it

though if you wanna talk about why being frustrated over getting scumread is a scumtrait i'm down to listen too

there is a lot of reason to talk because if you're just lurking and jumping on wagons with bad/non-existent reasoning then it gets really hard to sort you, also testa wagon is not the only thing that's happened in the past ~15 pages so i would appreciate some more thoughts on things from you

[Raya36]

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[Raya36]

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