Open 789: Two-Fold 2d3 [Game Over]

[dramonic]

I *do* think you’re playing to an outdated site meta which is leading you to bad reads

[dramonic]

I don't think you understand how meta works.

[Menalque]

I’m not talking about my personal meta, I’m talking about site meta ie how people tend to approach the game as town and as scum, and I think that’s moved on from wherever it was when you used to play regularly

[Menalque]

I kinda think the fact that you’re confusing my referencing of site meta with the idea of me using self meta is another thing that’s indicative that that’s the case

[Gypyx]

ok so just to put that here i kinda have trouble keeping up with that thread, i'll try to get my focus back into the game when i'll be in a focused mind state

[TripleHaven]

Dram i wanna conclude that your bad case on me is just towny bad but the lack of anything else towny in your ISO is making me doubt that

[Umlaut]

Dram's case on TripleHaven is not exactly selling me.

Teacher is looking pretty town to me with what appears to be a genuine effort to understand and explain Dram's perspective.

Umlaut, what’s your read on dram?

Null I guess. Maybe slightly town because I don't expect scum to act in such an attention-getting manner and then double and triple down on it when it gets them heat.

Though my sense of paranoia just said "Dram's continued pushes here on Menalque are

so

absurdly uncharitable that I wonder if this is pre-planned distancing/busing" but I haven't actually run that through a sanity check yet, I just thought of it while I was writing this answer to your question.

Okay I'll keep reading now

[dramonic]

I’m not talking about my personal meta, I’m talking about site meta ie how people tend to approach the game as town and as scum, and I think that’s moved on from wherever it was when you used to play regularly

I don't think you understand how meta works.

Dram i wanna conclude that your bad case on me is just towny bad but the lack of anything else towny in your ISO is making me doubt that

By which you mean you don't want to try to get something going on me cuz I'll flip town and it'd look bad on your resume.
I get it.

[Umlaut]

Dram i wanna conclude that your bad case on me is just towny bad but the lack of anything else towny in your ISO is making me doubt that

This is kind of where I am on Dram too, I want to say scum would probably not make such audaciously terrible cases and insist on them against all logic but at some point I really need him to do something that's positive-towny and not just towny-for-lack-of-scum-motivation.

[dramonic]

You have a very strange definition of positive-town.

[dramonic]

It is frightening how little some of you differentiate between intent and content. Just saying.

[TripleHaven]

It is frightening how little some of you differentiate between intent and content. Just saying.

How is this relevant

[Hiraki]

I *do* think you’re playing to an outdated site meta which is leading you to bad reads, and it’s not the same thing. I’ve also seen it before first hand with a scumbuddy of mine a couple of games ago where he was in PT like “idgi why are people scumreading me, this is literally my town meta??” and it was just because the site had moved on a lot in play from when he was active

lol

[teacher]

@dram, you want to sell me a different take on Hiraki? You seem to be the only one townreading, so I figure you got something

[dramonic]

It is frightening how little some of you differentiate between intent and content. Just saying.

How is this relevant

It's relevant cuz you havent been lynched yet.

@teach: at work, will respond on break

[Marashu]

Why would you think that Dram, who is scummy, would give out correct reads?

I wouldn’t? But like I don’t see why he, regardless of alignment, would expect anyone to listen to him if he’s just asserting things?

Do you think scum would be scumhunting given that this is multiball? Or would they try to conceal their reads of the other team to force more town-exile?

I don't know how to read Hiraki. Does that make Hiraki null? I could just as easily see Hiraki as difficult town or as scum.

I agree with a lot of what dram has said, but I think I feel more strongly that teacher is scum than Dann is scum.

But what are the odds of rolling scum twice in a row?

I also think that Mena would have done more distancing between himself and Haven, so that team doesn't feel quite right either.

Unless I missed something, the order of getting rid of a scum team also matters. If we exile mafia D1 and werewolf D2, and there's no crossfire, then we can only have 1 mis-exile before being in a 2:1:1 scenario. (9:2:2 - 7:1:2 - 5:1:1 - 2:1:1) It's a lot more comfortable if we wipe out a team first. But on the other hand, what are the odds of scum always hitting 2 different town targets every night?

Other assorted reads and notes: I didn't mind Dunn's intro back on the first day, but unfortunately that's all we have from Dunn to work with.
teacher is voting Mena but is at least implying in 413 that Hiraki is anti-town. This is weird to me. @teach are you standing by your rvs vote?
I've got a slight TL on Testarossa - I'm not feeling any agenda behind these posts.
327 is what sold me on town!dram
I'm not really a fan of meta-diving, so I'm not going to be digging this up, but I feel like Mena's been looking at meta a lot this game, moreso than the one other game I played with Mena.

VOTE: teacher

[Menalque]

I feel like Mena's been looking at meta a lot this game, moreso than the one other game I played with Mena.

Hi marashu, where do you think I’ve been looking a lot at meta this game?

[Almost50]

dramonic does not believe in such petty and useless things as "sorting people" or "playing mafia"

I'm afraid it's the other way around from my PoV. I think dram is actually playing mafia and he certainly is sorting people.

[Almost50]

The narrator of a story is hardly in the spotlight

Said in a Morgan Freeman tone.

[Almost50]

After careful consideration I've decided I don't want to share a complete readlist at this point. I probably should have been more coy about some reads I have already outed too, but I can't change that now. My vote is still where I want it to be. though (no matter how hard I should/would be keeping my cards close to chest I still have to out at least one SR)

[Menalque]

Which benefits exactly are you expecting to see by concealing your reads?

[Almost50]

could someone who isn't in dramonic's scum list ask dramonic for the "why" behind his reads please and thank you

I don't need to. Some of his reads I agree with. Some I don't (or not sure about) but I understand where he's coming from. The 2-3 that do not belong in either group I don't mind sleeping on for now.

Worthy of note that some reads are "player specific", meaning that the same (exact) posts (and level of activity) coming from X may mean something totally different than them coming from Y. It's a personality/playing style thing.

[Almost50]

Which benefits exactly are you expecting to see by concealing your reads?

Protecting my TRs. Plain and simple.

[Menalque]

Okay why do you consider that important/best done through keeping your reads to yourself?

[Menalque]

Also can you explain why you think haven is scum?