If it were done in a way that didn’t look like checking of boxes I would not have scumread itIn post 580, Marashu wrote:Gamma, why isn't it towny to sort down to a known number of scum?
Yeah this makes more senseIn post 583, Almost50 wrote:Gamma: There are two ways I can protect myIn post 539, Gamma Emerald wrote:like you're not the only person with townreads, I don't think one persons reads are going to sway scum that hardowntownreads. One is to hide them. the other is to mildly shade them (enough to discourage the NK on them but not enough to actually wagon them). In MB games the latter is still a risky tactic because of "power distribution". One scum side may decide to go for a push on said TR (that I shaded) and the other may join them (not knowing that they are the other scum team) and then a wagon would still build on them, and if resisted they'd become a prime NK target. (In single ball it's less dangerous because it's almost never the case that the whole scum team would be on the miss-elimination).
Also, consider this: If I am a PR; I don't want to reveal whom I might be targeting tonight (regardless of whether I am an investigative or a protective). If I am not a PR; I still want to appear like one so that -hopefully- I might eat a bullet for the team.
Capisce?
It would still be good to have an idea of who you’re TRing to keep in mind for later, for consistency and such. And maybe your TR would convince someone, you can’t just not try, though as long as the person in question isn’t widely suspected you don’t really have to make that effort, though that’s another reason you should state them, that way if you do make a stand like that it’s not coming out of nowhere (this comes off a bit like coaching, so let me just give an aside that I don’t think I would ever need to coach A50 on how to play).In post 584, Almost50 wrote:Because that's whom I want to eliminate. My TR on someone isn't even going to stop anyone else from FoSing them (or more). You seem to have forgotten how I play. I want to see where YOU (plural) are pushing and why. I want to see who noticed something and who didn't. Come on. Did you lose you booklet on "A50 playstyle, methods and tricks"?In post 541, Gamma Emerald wrote:In post 448, Almost50 wrote:But more importantly: Why would you care whom I TR anyway? What's it to you? You should only care about whom I'm SRing and why. No?What???
this is super obtuse, even for you. Why would someoneonlycare about your SRs? Is this some advanced shading method?
(1) why is the scum hunting not genuine besides having a weird process that he should stick to having as many scumreads as there are scum? like yes, I think that's a slightly flawed process, but I don't think it's scummy -- I use something similar which is to try to limit my scumreads to the number of scum + 50% (so here 6 scumreads would be my max) because otherwise you start spiralling into paranoia etcIn post 599, Gamma Emerald wrote:I can see what you’re saying about reads, but here’s where we diverge in thought.In post 594, Menalque wrote:meta with hiraki?In post 592, Gamma Emerald wrote:My Hiraki read is based on experience (meta in other words), so you’re probably just not in the loop there. So why do you think my dram read doesn’t make sense?In post 562, Menalque wrote:You townreading hiraki and scumreading dram doesn’t make sense to me
I think that dram's like, insane overconfidence in his reads for things that I think are NAI or ambiguous is similar to hiraki's take on me being scum
what I think is different is that I think that when he went further into his read on triple is that I think he does genuinely have the reads he's talking about, and that he's interested in the game beyond me/triple and the other slots. I don't see that in hiraki -- his entire game approach seems to have been about this and me!scum and he doesn't seem interested in sorting beyond that(1) For dramonic, yes I think some of her reads might be genuine, namely the TH read on the one on you. However, that doesn’t mute out the fact the rest of her scumhunting doesn’t come off as genuine.Plus the “they’re a scumbuddy” thing, though I’ll have to double-check, hasn’t really been explained in any meaningful capacity since I recall it being used in a situation not relating to TH + Menalque
As for Hiraki,(2) yes I have meta on him that I’m using, mainly to understand his personality and how he plays.While I would like him to give more reads on the other players,(3) that doesn’t detract from how towny his approach to certain interactions has been, at least not enough to make me doubt my read. Also he at least has indicated what amounts to a dramonic townread, via disagreeing with me voting there.
My thoughts on Hiraki early on we’re a sort of “prodigal son” view on his posts. I didn’t distrust him, I was just hoping he’d back off the jerkass act because I felt like he could do better. Once he affirmed my POV, that’s when I really started to townread him. Up until then I had him at about null, maybe leaning a little town.In post 601, Menalque wrote:re 597
"I never really scumread Hiraki, there was only one point where I really even started entertaining that thought. All I did was talk about how I wasn’t okay with his interactions at the time."
what does this mean? I don't get what you mean by (1) I wasn't scumreading him and (2) I wasn't okay with his interactions at the time
"but tbh I think if I wanted to divert attention from Hiraki I just push Menalque? Pretty sure a wider range of people have expressed suspicion of him"
yeah I did have this thought, and I'm considering it. I'm not sure if, even given dram and hiraki calling me scum, you necessarily think that I'm a good option for a push if you're scum and you think I'm town.
**
I'll have another look at your entry posts, I certainly felt like you were scumreading or implying a scumread on hiraki and that's straight up exactly what I was expecting the crush slot to do if it were scum with hiraki. enter saying hmm, yeah, I see how this guy can be scummy. but oh no, wait, actually they're okay after all. I wasn't sure if I'd be pushed as part of that, but the recognition that the posts were Bad(tm) only to shift to a townread is like, a very partner-y trajectory imo
I don’t see how that one example proves your point. I don’t think your townread on dram really did anything to counteract the concerns I had. If your townread reasoning were more in conflict with my scumread reasoning then it would likely have more effect.In post 587, Almost50 wrote:I can't believe I was tricked by this evil scum called dramonic, but here he is scumslipping. He opened it with { but closed it with ), which is something I have once caught scum doing, so he must be scum.In post 555, dramonic wrote:While we're here discussing my super special lack of reads beyond 4 scum{tm)
@Gamma: Sorry for the bad joke, but this is how I see your argument comparing dram's play to N_M's play. But feel free to continue your push there.
On another note: See what I mean? dram is like the only player I had explicitly stated a TR on, and that didn't stop you from pushing him, did it? There is literally no point in me outing my other TRs at this time.
I was mostly disappointed in his play, because I felt like he could interact in a positive way and I wasn’t seeing that at the timeIn post 605, Menalque wrote:what do you mean by "My thoughts on Hiraki early on we’re a sort of “prodigal son” view on his posts."?
When he mentioned having to get out of the mindset he was in and he starting engaging more earnestly, I was essentially told “yes, your read on the situation was RIGHT” and between having correctly identified Hiraki’s thought process and him towning up a little I started to feel good about him being town.In post 606, Menalque wrote:and what do you mean by "Once he affirmed my POV, that’s when I really started to townread him."?
Yeah I used the wrong nameIn post 589, Hiraki wrote:that's not what melanque is sayingIn post 549, Gamma Emerald wrote:t's not that hard to understand? Hiraki wasn't talking about his meta at all there
site meta is essentially how the site views certain plays or whatever, things such as "Eliminate all lurkers" and such.
he's saying that because we're old, we're outdated and people have developed new scumtells that might've incriminated people in an "older" playstyle. that is site meta. unless i am assuming incorrectly you used my name rather than melanque'sIn post 394, Menalque wrote:I *do* think you’re playing to an outdated site meta which is leading you to bad reads, and it’s not the same thing. I’ve also seen it before first hand with a scumbuddy of mine a couple of games ago where he was in PT like “idgi why are people scumreading me, this is literally my town meta??” and it was just because the site had moved on a lot in play from when he was active
1) it’s not that he’s limiting himself that really pings me, it’s the inclusion of scumreads in his 4 for no other apparent reason than that he needed 2 extra scumreads. Yes the limiting did ping me initially but it’s not the entire reason for the scumread, it’s not even really a major point outside of leading up to the thing IIn post 603, Menalque wrote:(1) why is the scum hunting not genuine besides having a weird process that he should stick to having as many scumreads as there are scum? like yes, I think that's a slightly flawed process, but I don't think it's scummy -- I use something similar which is to try to limit my scumreads to the number of scum + 50% (so here 6 scumreads would be my max) because otherwise you start spiralling into paranoia etcIn post 599, Gamma Emerald wrote:I can see what you’re saying about reads, but here’s where we diverge in thought.In post 594, Menalque wrote:meta with hiraki?In post 592, Gamma Emerald wrote:My Hiraki read is based on experience (meta in other words), so you’re probably just not in the loop there. So why do you think my dram read doesn’t make sense?In post 562, Menalque wrote:You townreading hiraki and scumreading dram doesn’t make sense to me
I think that dram's like, insane overconfidence in his reads for things that I think are NAI or ambiguous is similar to hiraki's take on me being scum
what I think is different is that I think that when he went further into his read on triple is that I think he does genuinely have the reads he's talking about, and that he's interested in the game beyond me/triple and the other slots. I don't see that in hiraki -- his entire game approach seems to have been about this and me!scum and he doesn't seem interested in sorting beyond that(1) For dramonic, yes I think some of her reads might be genuine, namely the TH read on the one on you. However, that doesn’t mute out the fact the rest of her scumhunting doesn’t come off as genuine.Plus the “they’re a scumbuddy” thing, though I’ll have to double-check, hasn’t really been explained in any meaningful capacity since I recall it being used in a situation not relating to TH + Menalque
As for Hiraki,(2) yes I have meta on him that I’m using, mainly to understand his personality and how he plays.While I would like him to give more reads on the other players,(3) that doesn’t detract from how towny his approach to certain interactions has been, at least not enough to make me doubt my read. Also he at least has indicated what amounts to a dramonic townread, via disagreeing with me voting there.
(2) okay, where from? and is it direct meta or meta from you reading a game that he was in?
(3) okay, can you point more clearly to where this was and why his approach to certain interactions was towny?
i actually don't have many reads this game which is as annoying as it is to me as it is to youIn post 599, Gamma Emerald wrote:As for Hiraki, yes I have meta on him that I’m using, mainly to understand his personality and how he plays. While I would like him to give more reads on the other players, that doesn’t detract from how towny his approach to certain interactions has been, at least not enough to make me doubt my read. Also he at least has indicated what amounts to a dramonic townread, via disagreeing with me voting there.
im confused what you see differently thenIn post 612, Gamma Emerald wrote:That WAS the right response (minus the name), I just didn’t remember which post it was and thought was from when teacher said Menalque had a “detailed meta case” on Hiraki and I was counter pointing that
niceIn post 598, Menalque wrote:if I am towning scum, then I'll realise that if and when my scum reads flip town
Well yes that’s part of the issue but I think you faked confidence in order to have 4 scumreadsIn post 616, dramonic wrote:Oh, you think my scumreads on people outside THalque aren't genuine. Way to muddle your actual problem.
I think this is the first time someone accuses me of faking confidence vs calling me downright arrogant.In post 618, Gamma Emerald wrote:Well yes that’s part of the issue but I think you faked confidence in order to have 4 scumreadsIn post 616, dramonic wrote:Oh, you think my scumreads on people outside THalque aren't genuine. Way to muddle your actual problem.
this seems like a shallow take?In post 596, Dunnstral wrote:Teacher isn't even attempting to veil his omgus vote above, no pretenses and no explanations
Why?In post 622, Dannflor wrote:I am now also thinking I may have been wrong on Hiraki btw