Open 789: Two-Fold 2d3 [Game Over]

[Hiraki]

And yes, I consider my holistic read of people based on prior interactions with them? What exactly is your problem with this?

no, it's not holistic, it's solistic

Also that’s lowkey funny because I do have a question for umlaut that is specifically about meta

yeah i didn't bring it up but why would umlaut's read of meta on me matter for your read? isn't that relying on someone that you don't know about already? don't worry - i didn't ask because i knew the answer

Way overconfident scumread on me from way too little information. I don’t think it’s plausible that he had a scumread that strong based on what I’d posted.

still not scummy, would just lead to the conclusion that i could be

wrong

When asked to justify it, he said that it was because I’d given a “forced” readslist. When it was pointed out that this was a joke and that that had already been explained, he doubled down on it being “forced” and that it “wasn’t funny”.

again, what would be the difference between being blunt and scummy here?

Proceeded to try to dismiss the scumreads on his slot with a load of AtE and lolcatting.

that's not what happened but im not really willing to talk about this anymore - literally everyone in that conversation has moved on but you

Doesn’t seem to have any organic reads on the rest of the PL which is in stark contrast to his recent completed game here where he had a full readslist in by post 135 and was also just tonally completely different in how he entered the game and engaged with the other players, showing much more good faith and interest in cooperation.

wow this might be the worst reading of meta i've ever seen on this site, congrats. why does gamma say that this is somewhat normal for me then? could it be that reading one or two games is not enough? oopsie

NB: my name is “menalque” not “melanque”

noted

Mara, I’m trying to explain why I think dram is so wrong if town. Fmpov (knowing I’m town) dram has been pushing conftown, and three of my top townreads. My explanations for that are either (1) he’s scum (2) he’s incompetent (3) something else.

I'm really excited for the backpedal day 2

the worst part is that even with my or your flip, menalque just starts badmouthing us - bet

[dramonic]

Is that his meta?

[Hiraki]

not sure if that's a joke, just a bet on my part

[Menalque]

(1) solistic isn’t a word, do you mean solipsistic? And if so, how is it that?

(2) bc unlaut has recent meta with you and I’m currently thinking he’s town, so obviously I would like to know if he thinks you’re playing similarly to 2d4 (where I know you were town) or not

(3) no, that is scummy. It’s claiming a level of confidence that’s unjustifiable if town in that situation

(4) the fact that a “forced readslist” as justification for a strong scumread is a bunk explanation when it had already been clarified that that was a joke

(5) that is very literally what happened and I can pull quotes to prove it

(6) well I mean I think gamma is +average scum and a likely partner for you, soooo I’m not super trusting of his claim that you’re in your meta here

[Menalque]

Spoiler:

i've got nothing to say about the above except that it's stupid and the fact that someone voted with scum on that logic is

yikes

Spoiler:

try a third time, it might work. i don't think i stuttered the first time though

Spoiler:

And I wouldn’t think (and doubt anyone did) that anyone “could pull off” an exile/elimination that early, so I read his post as saying you were being blendy not actually solved.

blendy?

And how did you miss that, since Mena explained part and I explained the other prior to your own post about it?

i didn't miss it, it didn't matter. how many fucking times am i going to have to repeat myself this game? it's page 9 ffs

There’s no way Mena was going to be exiled this early D1 and everyone knows that so I don’t think he was saying solved.

that is LITERALLY what he is implying

Right now, I think he's reached a point where he initially latched on to something to scum read, realized it wasn't as damning as he initially thought it was, but now doesn't know how to back down from that without looking more scummy.

this LITERALLY SAYS that i am THROWING A HAIL MARY

realized it wasn't as damning as he initially thought it was

HAIL MARY - BRINGING IT TO THE END GOAL - DAMNING AS HE INITIALLY THOUGHT IT WAS

Oh never mind, I reread what you said after, what you're claiming is not that you weren't asserting your level of skill but that the skill you're asserting is just "not a complete dufus" rather than "so fucking good"

I don't really think that makes it any better, to be honest.

I am at least glad that you understand it. Don't care what you think about it.

Spoiler:

You're saying it wasn't a hard scum read now, is that the case?

you are a fucking comedian

Spoiler:

Could you try this again. I can’t parse your narrative at all, and want to.

there is nothing to rephrase here

I now think you're scum that has been "caught for the wrong reasons" and that's why you're so frustrated. Of course, a townie can get mad for getting scum read for shit reasons too, but they usually try to sort the people scum reading them as well. The aggression feels like a mask for your alignment.

git gud

What specifically was the reaction test - who did it and how?

did you read the wiki?

Spoiler:

There's no solid stance at any point. It's all "I sorta see it but maybe not teehee" kind of stuff.

I don't particularly scumread this but I understand where you're coming from. I certainly did notice it, just became annoying.

I dont follow all of the "person" and who they refer to in how you perceive the events

you don't know who i'm talking about after i've talked about them for 9+ pages because of you two at this point?

I did. Could you now answer the question, and answer what your take is on Menalque and why?

innocent child

I saw him as picking and choosing parts of the conversation to respond to

yeah the not dumb parts

I kept trying to steer the conversation to a firm Menalque read, and never got one.

wow

I wouldn’t?

You keep saying things like this and I just have no idea why you think I would trust that to be accurate/correct

ok but you considered the implication that you would care about it, which to me is a clear notation of scum thinking versus town thinking

But like I don’t see why he, regardless of alignment, would expect anyone to listen to him if he’s just asserting things?

so you are asking useless questions?

Okay, there’s not as much straight AtE as I remembered but there is some — it’s more like, attempting to paint the scumreads on you as ridiculous instead of engaging with them that’s scummy

This post has been edited to hide the quotes in

Spoiler:

tags.

[Menalque]

Ahh ffs

mod, i forgot to spoiler the quotes in my last post, could you fix it for me to make this page more readable pls?

[Menalque]

Spoiler: overconfidence on far too little

One is Menalque, duh.

i've got nothing to say about the above except that it's stupid and the fact that someone voted with scum on that logic is

yikes

try a third time, it might work. i don't think i stuttered the first time though

Spoiler: Says that it’s because of my readslist on pg2

What is it in the 5 posts that I made after receiving my role PM that you believe was so strongly scum indicative?

Why do you care? You're already calling me scum, right?

I mean, yes, I am, but I think if I’m wrong and you’re town that the best chance of me realising that will be if I can see how you got to where you are even if you’re wrong

Which has nothing to do with why you're voting me, okay okay

pre-Edit: you literally gave out a forced readslist lol, very NAI

jokes are usually funny

I just said that it was forced

Spoiler: Explaining the joke faaaar before hiraki uses it as justification for his SR on me

Preliminary reads:

Dannflor
Everyone else
Marashu

Dies this mean you just voted the guy you TR the most, or is this readlist upside down?

It means that I am recognising a truth universally acknowledged, that a single dannflor in possession of his wits, must be in the process of being inevitably TR by Menalque

Dann, why’d you change your vote to haven?

*snip*

Why'd you put Marashu at the bottom of your preliminary reads list?

If you don’t mind butting in, look at Mary’s history. I think they rolled scum for the first five games straight. Became memey. (Btw @maru - this is my first game since I ghosted on you. Sorry again for that, and congrats on the win)

Dann, why’d you change your vote to haven?

It's very small but I didn't like how she switched her vote from you to Umlaut. You had two votes on you at the time and RVS voting you would have built a sizable wagon. I wonder if maybe she was scared off by being the third vote on a (let's say town for now) wagon and decided to switch her vote to someone with no votes yet. Also, the "for sheeping" reasoning is kinda strange considering she had just sheeped people on the Menalque vote.

It's possible this didn't cross Haven's mind at all and I read far too much into it, but it was mildly scummier than I thought Dunnstral was.

Why'd you put Marashu at the bottom of your preliminary reads list?

*snip*

And teacher is exactly right, it was a joke about Marashu having rolled scum a frankly silly number of times for how many games he’s had

Spoiler: Deflection — trying to make it about me/the semantics of a hard push

How am I pushing hard again? Last I checked, you wanted to talk about this but I was pretty okay ignoring you. There's a word for this...let me take out my dictionary...

The... bit where you’ve been repeatedly calling me scum?

So - let's be clear. Even though you believed that there was nothing substantial behind it -

But using only in-game material, you having a strong scumread on me that you’ve reiterated from what are 5 very NAI posts from me is Not A Good Look

You decided to say that me calling you scum 4 times was a "hard" push? What exactly constitutes as a "soft" push then? Is it when you just think about the person?

Still looking in my dictionary btw - I think the word is operational. Hmm...no, that's not it. I'm almost there.

Right now, I think he's reached a point where he initially latched on to something to scum read, realized it wasn't as damning as he initially thought it was, but now doesn't know how to back down from that without looking more scummy. It's possible that comes from awkward/stubborn town, particularly one that has a philosophy of not interacting with scum reads?? But with #98 I rather doubt it.

he's literally saying that i thought i, as scum, could pull of a lynch on page 5 based off of a page 2 reads post that excludes 90% of the playerlist - why on earth would i take that argument seriously? it's probably one of the worst things i've read on this site lol. who in their right minds thinks that post is damning? because i called melanque scum 4 times based off of it? really? page 5? scum 4 times without providing any reasoning? hard push? no one else wants to call it like it is?

i will gladly be the D1 lynch if this is the type of logic i'm gonna be encountering in this game after our first little kerfuffle into mod intervention. thought i was in an open, not a newbie

I am trying to avoid doing cases but I pulled quotes to support what I’m already saying

[Menalque]

So hiraki

(1) tries to brush off the fact that he’s claiming high confidence in scum!me by not engaging

(2) when pushed on this he explains that it’s because I made a forced readslist

(3) claims this is scummy despite being a joke — even if he didn’t see it as a joke, he still shouldn’t find it scummy just for being “forced” as opposed to just being a bad joke

(4) tries to change his scumread on me to being about an overreaction, and makes in doing so tries to deflect from how scummy he is

[teacher]

Menalque, we get your take and it’s kind of occupying a lot of space at this point (and I’m saying this even though I agree). Personally I think moving a bit to get more out of D1 would be more effective. Dunn and Gypyx effectively aren’t here, and I’d be interested in your analysis on gamma leading to the buddy thought. I’m not sure there’s more to be gained by resigning the Hiraki well with nine days on deadline.

[TemporalLich]

Gypyx has been prodded.

[Menalque]

So I’m a lil drunk rn

But basically, yes, I know it’s taking up space, but that’s because I’m not seeing anyone voting hiraki and I’m also not seeing a whole lot of towncasing of him going on

I don’t really agree with the idea that running the game to deadline is very beneficial at all anymore, and half the time that just results in me talking myself out of a good read. Dunn and gypx are both pretty high in my scumreads, I don’t mind eliminating either, but I’m not as confident in either as I am in hiraki.

I’ll try to run more through the gamma thought when sober, I think I already touched on it — I think gamma’s opening is very close to what I would expect from the crush slot in a world where that’s the partner to hiraki. The like admital that he doesn’t look great through to suggesting I’m scummy but not really wanting to go in on that. Tbf this is a little confused because I’m not sure how much big a threat scum!gamma sees me as town. I think he might try 1v1ing me but I’m not sure. But I really don’t like his hiraki take and it doesn’t gel with what I see here/in the game that I’ve made reference to

[Menalque]

Basically, I feel confident hiraki is scum. Nothing in his posting has done anything to change that significantly

I want to flip there — if I’m wrong I wanna continue on my current reads. If he flips town I’ll reevaluate a bit

[Hiraki]

I want to flip there — if I’m wrong I wanna continue on my current reads. If he flips town I’ll reevaluate a bit

i've read this 10 times and every time it gets worse

[Menalque]

Lol why

[Menalque]

Like how is that not a default thought process?

[Menalque]

No shit if you were to flip town I would re-evaluate

That doesn’t mean I don’t think you’re more likely to flip scum than town?

[dramonic]

That's... Not what you wrote. Or it's real poorly worded. "If im wrong I wanna continue on my current reada"?

[dramonic]

not sure if that's a joke, just a bet on my part

It was a joke you killjoy

[TemporalLich]

Umlaut has requested replacement.

[Hiraki]

That's... Not what you wrote. Or it's real poorly worded. "If im wrong I wanna continue on my current reada"?

yeah

when i first posted that, i thought it was potential slip material

now im thinking just a lousy typo

[dramonic]

Christ that is fast replacement

[TemporalLich]

Bell replaces Umlaut.

[Bell]

Hello!
Catching up.

[Bell]

Jesus christ

[Marashu]

His posts feel pretty dispassionate, like he's trying to be a mediator to appear engaged. By this I mean he's not really taking any hard stances unless called on. 221 is where I started getting scum vibes. 380 doesn't come from a town mindset, in my opinion,

Let's chat.

1. What made the game unfun was toxicity in past games, and Im naturally conflict resistant (hence the job), so I get the mediator thing. But why is that anti-town?

2. Presuming your answer is that Im not really taking any hard stances, Id say I have more pronounced reads than like 1/2 the PL. Ive expressed views on Mena, Hiraki, Umlaut, Dram, DannFlor, and Dunn -- the last four without being expressly called to do so. Do you disagree? For what its worth, Im also a townlean on Testa and a null-scum on you, but having trouble sorting out your low-content from VCA and otherwise.

3. Why doesnt 380 come from a town mindset? That comment makes like no sense to me.

His posts feel pretty dispassionate, like he's trying to be a mediator to appear engaged. By this I mean he's not really taking any hard stances unless called on. 221 is where I started getting scum vibes. 380 doesn't come from a town mindset, in my opinion, and I haven't really seen anything that's getting me to see this slot as town.

Whats scummy in 221 and why is teacher playing as a mediator scummy to you?

Also, what about 380 makes you say it doesn’t come from a town mindset?

1) Fair. I tend to avoid conflict where I can so I can understand this. In this case it comes across as scummy because it looks like a way to work from the sidelines. 221 to me felt like you were trying to appeal to Hiraki so you could look like you are making efforts to understand while standing at the sideline without needing to commit, and that it didn't really matter what Hiraki would say in response. (To be very clear, it's the first half of 221 that I think is scummy) But now that I'm looking, I see that you followed up on that very point in 294, and it could just be that you were trying to prevent this game from degrading into the last one I was in with you (I honestly don't blame you for leaving, so no worries on that front).

2) I know where you stand on Mena and Hiraki and Dram. I think I understand where you stand with Dann (you felt resonance with him during your questioning of Hiraki, causing a TR)? Your read on Umlaut I feel is a bit vague, as it wasn't a strong TL and has weakened since (but Umlaut is out now so hopefully Bell will be more readable?) I can tell your stance on Dunn because of your vote, but your reasoning is vague - is this because you want to try to engage with someone who is not engaging, like your stance in 733? Or did you notice anything scummy in what Dunn has posted?

3) This one's easy for me to answer. I don't get why drawing attention to a potential PR is in town's best interest, if someone behaves a certain way as town PR.