Newbie 2025 | Lilies | Game Over

[shellyc]

Initial Impressions #1
- Redados: Posted that I asked questions, seemingly discrediting my curiosity, and I obviously didn't post fluff? But adapted his opinion. Don't like his LAMIST opening, and OMGUS voting. LAMIST / OMGUS are scumreads to me imo. Also I feel a different vibe from their last towngame in Newbie 2019.
- Mush: Posts walls of poetry that made my day. Makes this the general discussion forum with walls of their experiences. Votes Redados for conceding to be scum, I like the aggression. I find it NAI to point out that I'm not posting non relevant questions, as a scum could try to pocket / align with me. Current read: Slight town.
Not much reads for the other players. A few silent people.

DIE MAFIA SCUM! VOTE: Redados

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Townies are sure to act scummy every so often, and we have one person who hasn't posted and two (I think?) who have only posted once. Only one SE you could really call active. Consider we've only got between 3 and 5 meaningfully active players right now, and there's only two scum and a total of 9 players.

I feel it's very premature to push to eliminate right now.

[shellyc]

I just wanted to see how they would react. I wasn't pushing to eliminate. Also, someone has to get limmed on day 1, and I want to pressure players and see how they react, helping our wincon

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I don't want to press too hard when better than half of the players aren't active and have posted little useful information to make determinations with. I'd explain in more detail why it could be bad to press too hard too early, but that'd give the game away. Call it Day 2 I'll tell everyone, assuming I'm not dead. Reserving the right to say so earlier, of course, just setting realistic expectations in the longer term.

[Redados]

Initial Impressions #1
- Redados: Posted that I asked questions, seemingly discrediting my curiosity, and I obviously didn't post fluff? But adapted his opinion. Don't like his LAMIST opening, and OMGUS voting. LAMIST / OMGUS are scumreads to me imo. Also I feel a different vibe from their last towngame in Newbie 2019.

OMGUS much?

I would like to remind everyone that LAMIST and OMGUS were both tongue-in-cheek and in RVS. As for "vibe", last game I was super stiff and then kind of relaxed my playing and posting style towards the end, and that's how I'm feeling now (kind of relaxed).

Townies are sure to act scummy every so often, and we have one person who hasn't posted and two (I think?) who have only posted once. Only one SE you could really call active. Consider we've only got between 3 and 5 meaningfully active players right now, and there's only two scum and a total of 9 players.

I feel it's very premature to push to eliminate right now.

It's fine, it's just a vote, she's pushing and being active. I'm not close to being limmed. I'm at what, E-3?

[Redados]

I don't want to press too hard when better than half of the players aren't active and have posted little useful information to make determinations with. I'd explain in more detail why it could be bad to press too hard too early, but that'd give the game away. Call it Day 2 I'll tell everyone, assuming I'm not dead. Reserving the right to say so earlier, of course, just setting realistic expectations in the longer term.

I'm not super enjoying this post.

Pushing players is fine. That's how we gain information and find scum. No, we don't want to eliminate five hours into day one. That's because the longer the day is and the more posts there are, the more information we gain.

I am not super enjoying your post.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I said push too hard. I already pushed you earlier, twice even. But there's a difference in approach that changes how the inactive players will act if they know their turn will be coming. Again, don't want to say too much.

Shelly was more aggressive than I would be at this state. There's a time for that, I think it's a bit further out. We aren't even a full 24 hours in, are we? No, not even 12.

I want more time for people to check in and contribute before we increase pressure.

[Redados]

Shelly is not pushing too hard. I disagree with the premise of your post. What she is doing is healthy for the game.

[shellyc]

I don't understand why pushing is bad for the game. Pushing is good to find reactions, if Redados reacts well I will take my vote off. If we don't push people, how would we able to get info and scumhunt?

It's weird how Mush says I'm aggressive. (Meta reasons, maybe)

I'm not sure how I feel about Redados's reaction, and I didnt notice I was OMGUSing. Why are you relaxed this game? Any special reasoning?

[MagikHorse]

I just wanted to see how they would react. I wasn't pushing to eliminate. Also, someone has to get limmed on day 1, and I want to pressure players and see how they react, helping our wincon

Have you managed on getting any useful reactions or info from the questions you're asking? I'm not seeing it if you are, but it's possible that I'm just a little too drowsy on the meds I'm on and missed it (though I won't be on these meds much longer fortunately).

I will say a few of those questions don't really seem to contribute much towards progressing the game, such as the one in 10. I can easily see how people would call those fluffy.

I don't want to press too hard when better than half of the players aren't active and have posted little useful information to make determinations with.

To be fair it's a weekend start, and people in general tend to post less on weekends. It's why slower prod timers on weekends are a decently common rule. I know I'm heavily limited in posting time on Saturdays myself, though I should be able to squeeze in time for one or two posts on Saturdays. Even then I'm not seeing the harm here in putting a little pressure on, unless you think it's distracting from something or leading to an early tunnel?

I would like to remind everyone that LAMIST and OMGUS were both tongue-in-cheek and in RVS.

Does being in RVS give people a free pass to be so flippant? Doesn't this sort of behavior only gum up the thread and make it harder to get out of RVS, especially if more people were to do it?

[Redados]

I'm not sure how I feel about Redados's reaction, and I didnt notice I was OMGUSing. Why are you relaxed this game? Any special reasoning?

Last game, I was pretty stiff initially because I didn't want to come across as scum (I was town, for reference). But eventually I figured it that if I'm just loose and post what I think, then I'll be fine.

I would like to remind everyone that LAMIST and OMGUS were both tongue-in-cheek and in RVS.

Does being in RVS give people a free pass to be so flippant? Doesn't this sort of behavior only gum up the thread and make it harder to get out of RVS, especially if more people were to do it?

You can make the statement that certain types of actions in RVS aren't useful, and that's certainly true. In what you quoted, I'm not saying "I get a free pass because it's RVS". I'm saying that it's NAI because it's RVS. Those are two different discussions in my opinion.

[Nahdia]

Vote Count 1.01

Redados (2):

Tatsuya Kaname,

MUSHAGANA

, shellyc

shellyc (2):

ItalianoVD, Redados

MUSHAGANA (1):

shellyc

,

Redados

, rocknil

Frogsterking (1):

MUSHSHAGANA

, MagikHorse

ItalianoVD (0):

Redados

Not Voting (3):

loz,

ItalianoVD

,

shellyc

,

Redados

,

rocknil

,

MUSHSHAGANA

,

MagikHorse

,

Tatsuya Kaname

, Frogsterking, MUSHSHAGANA

Deadline is in

(expired on 2020-08-25 15:51:33)

, at which point we will default to no elimination.

With nine players alive, it takes

five

to reach majority.

Note:

If you ever notice errors in my vote count (like, your vote is in the wrong place), please point it out to me! You can do so either via PM or in the thread itself. If you do tell me in the thread, please write

@MOD

in bold so it catches my attention.

[MagikHorse]

You can make the statement that certain types of actions in RVS aren't useful, and that's certainly true. In what you quoted, I'm not saying "I get a free pass because it's RVS". I'm saying that it's NAI because it's RVS. Those are two different discussions in my opinion.

Saying that this behavior is NAI because it's RVS is the same thing as saying you shouldn't be read off of it, which is just another way of saying "gimme a pass on this behavior, it means nothing". They're one and the same.

Why do you think this is NAI anyways?

[shellyc]

Have you managed on getting any useful reactions or info from the questions you're asking? I'm not seeing it if you are, but it's possible that I'm just a little too drowsy on the meds I'm on and missed it (though I won't be on these meds much longer fortunately).

Well I agree that some of my earlier questions are similar to fluff. I have gotten useful reactions from my pushing of Redados. He says that the LAMIST / OMGUS are tongue-in-cheek and in RVS, leading to this Redados interaction with you. Without my questioning and push, Redados wouldn't have conceded that LAMIST / OMGUS are NAI and shouldn't get him scumread.

Redados is being overly defensive for my liking. He also thinks LAMIST and OMGUS are not alignment indicative, which isn't true. Even in the RVS, our goal is to generate info, which isn't generated from this erratic behaviour.

Performing common scumtells, like what you did, is a form of WIFOM, and you could have done it from a scum!Redados perspective. I believe what Redados is doing isn't protown, and it definitely isn't NAI.

[Redados]

You can make the statement that certain types of actions in RVS aren't useful, and that's certainly true. In what you quoted, I'm not saying "I get a free pass because it's RVS". I'm saying that it's NAI because it's RVS. Those are two different discussions in my opinion.

Saying that this behavior is NAI because it's RVS is the same thing as saying you shouldn't be read off of it, which is just another way of saying "gimme a pass on this behavior, it means nothing". They're one and the same.

Why do you think this is NAI anyways?

I disagree. RVS is a time where you goof off and vote randomly, and then you learn from people's reactions to those random votes. Once people start reacting, RVS is over and then the goofing off ends.

In my opinion, overanalyzing RVS actions is unnecessary because the valuable information is in the

reactions

to the RVS. I could post as the first post of the game the words, "I am scum" and that is NAI because it's RVS.

OMGUS and LAMIST are scumtells, so I won't ever get to do them outside of RVS. I did them (in a tongue-in cheek way - as I literally said "LAMIST" and "OMGUS" in my posts, thus acknowledging them) because I thought it was funny and didn't matter. I still think that they are funny and that they don't matter.

NAI = Not Alignment Indicative

[shellyc]

Initial Impressions #2
- Redados is still acting anti town and scummy. Doesn't apologise for messing around and disrupting the gain of info in RVS, discredits my questioning, is defensive, and the interaction with MagikHorse strikes across as scummy to my gut.
- I like how MagikHorse enquires about if I had

gained any info

from the questions. This is different from how Redados says my questions aren't good. I also like their push at Redados.

[shellyc]

I disagree. RVS is a time where you goof off and vote randomly, and then you learn from people's reactions to those random votes. Once people start reacting, RVS is over and then the goofing off ends.

RVS is when we get all the info for the rest of the game. If we don't get info out of RVS, what's the point? You basically said RVS was a time to play around and not be serious, which isn't true.

[MagikHorse]

I disagree. RVS is a time where you goof off and vote randomly, and then you learn from people's reactions to those random votes. Once people start reacting, RVS is over and then the goofing off ends.

In my opinion, overanalyzing RVS actions is unnecessary because the valuable information is in the

reactions

to the RVS. I could post as the first post of the game the words, "I am scum" and that is NAI because it's RVS.

OMGUS and LAMIST are scumtells, so I won't ever get to do them outside of RVS. I did them (in a tongue-in cheek way - as I literally said "LAMIST" and "OMGUS" in my posts, thus acknowledging them) because I thought it was funny and didn't matter. I still think that they are funny and that they don't matter.

NAI = Not Alignment Indicative

RVS doesn't just magically make things NAI, or else we end up in Shelly's scenario where nothing ever gets done because nothing means anything. If anything RVS shows the first things we have to look at, and so far all you're showing is that you don't care about the town, making progress, or getting to a better informed gamestate. I really don't like using "it's RVS" as an excuse to sit back and do completely nothing.

Scumtells are scumtells, regardless as to when they're done. OMGUS is less of a tell as sometimes there are plenty valid reasons to vote someone leading a wagon against you, but even then vote for those reasons and not just because OMGUS.

What do you think of the reactions you've garnered for your behavior? Have you at least gotten something from that?

[Redados]

I disagree. RVS is a time where you goof off and vote randomly, and then you learn from people's reactions to those random votes. Once people start reacting, RVS is over and then the goofing off ends.

RVS is when we get all the info for the rest of the game. If we don't get info out of RVS, what's the point? You basically said RVS was a time to play around and not be serious, which isn't true.

That's not what I said. There's goofing off and then there's the learning from the goofing off. You need both.

[shellyc]

RVS doesn't just magically make things NAI, or else we end up in Shelly's scenario where nothing ever gets done because nothing means anything.

Excuse me, did I do nothing?

[MagikHorse]

RVS doesn't just magically make things NAI, or else we end up in Shelly's scenario where nothing ever gets done because nothing means anything.

Excuse me, did I do nothing?

I apologize, but you've misunderstood me. I was referring to your hypothetical scenario you posted in 66, where we're stuck completely. I'm not trying to say you're doing nothing, but saying that calling RVS as all NAI leads a lot closer to that scenario.

[ItalianoVD]

Sorry peeps. Weekends are pretty tough for me as I like to spend the weekend with family; hiking, camping, fishing, kayaking, etc. so most of the time I’m out the house or I’m in a poor data area. I just wanted to quickly put down my thoughts before I’m gone for most of the day.

So far what stands out to me:

Frogsterking said he’d be back after he washed the dishes. He hasn’t returned yet so he must have either had a whole lotta dishes or his girlfriend said he can’t play with his friends, for not doing those dishes. Can’t wait for him to return and tell us what happened.

MUSHSHAGANA is someone I like. So far her posting and overall vibe seems good to me. Her push onto Redados seems genuine and I can’t really question it, but after playing with Redados he did play this loose as town. I can admit however that the LAMIST and OMGUS stuff was careless, but I could actually see town!Redados play this way. Shelly knows this. Unfortunately I don’t know how he would play as scum so take that as you will.

Shelly is back to her repeat posting from last game when she was scum. And by repeat posting I mean she says exactly what the other player says, almost word for word. As I pointed out.

Redados has put himself in a pretty tough position with his play so far. For now I’m gonna semi-town read him because while I wouldn’t put it past scum!Redados to play this way, I’m not sure how likely it is.

That’s it so far. I’m okay with leaving my vote on shelly at the moment. As I said I’ll be gone. Any questions asked I’ll answer when I can. Peace.

[MagikHorse]

Okay, so there's an extra game dynamic going on here that I'm not familiar with. I'm gonna have to look at that game sometime when my mind's not addled by my meds.

I'm not seeing how Shelly's really "reposting" though. Could you elaborate on that a little?

[Redados]

ItalianoVD, ShellyC, and I played in Newbie 2019. ItalianoVD and I were town and ShellyC was scum. A lot of ShellyC's posts weren't really substantial; she would just synthesize what others posted. She was not creating as much content as it appeared on the surface.

I chalked this up to the fact that it was her first game, because when I first started playing Werewolf, I did the same thing. I wanted to participate and be part of it, and I saw what other people were saying and I kind of repeated it, synthesized it. So I gave Shelly the benefit of the doubt and assumed that she was just playing that way because she was new.

She was scum. She is kind of playing the same way so far in this game, and I'm not going to give her the benefit of the doubt anymore. I am scumreading her slightly. The other pushes on me are fine but I am not a fan of Shelly's push on me.

--

As an aside, if anyone is into meta dives, Newbie 2019 is only like forty pages long and it is the only full game of Italiano, Shelly, and myself on the whole site, and we all lasted until pretty much the end. So it might give more insight into our dynamic.

[Frogsterking]

Frogsterking said he’d be back after he washed the dishes. He hasn’t returned yet so he must have either had a whole lotta dishes or his girlfriend said he can’t play with his friends, for not doing those dishes. Can’t wait for him to return and tell us what happened.

It was actually a little bit of both.

RVS VOTE: Tatsuya

Intro

: I live in the US in the state of Ohio, I'm 26, I'm working on a website and thought this game would be a good way to work on my writing skills. Despite the age of this account I am not an experienced mafiascum scumhunter and have not played since 2012.

I have extensive experience in this genre of game but very little in the forum format. I'm going to share a couple of my thoughts on this genre of game in general and how to win, this lobby and the players so far, and whatever else i think of while I'm writing that.

How I think about mafia-type games (mafia, secret hitler, werewolf, etc.)

: I think players who play this genre develop a style over time (and with it a preference for different formats of the game and situations which occur within those games). One way I think about the style-difference is if the player is logical vs behavioral, logical being that they focus on making the highest percentage play in the situation and behavioral focusing on minutiae of what the other players are saying and attempting to find hidden indicators of the players alignment. I think logical players tend to excel in fields like law, accounting, medicine, and is linked with a personality trait from the big five called Conscientiousness. These guys excel in setups that have many mechanics and require more detailed technical knowledge of the game and the format it is being played in. I believe behavioral players are linked with a personality trait also from the big five called Openness to experience and as such often have some kind of arts background. They excel in setups such as this one without many complex mechanics and the possibility of low info lylo situations with no clears. Most players eventually develop some traits of both even if they heavily lean one way.

I think people also have different communication styles they prefer which i think about as analytical, accommodating, and assertive. Most of us will use each of these styles but have a default one we prefer. We tend to be more receptive when others talk in our default state or the one we're in at the moment.

Another trait from the big five I think about a lot while playing games these types of games is agreeable vs disagreeable, which means how likely you are to be trusting, cooperate, empathetic vs skeptical, competitive and distrusting.

My thoughts on this lobby so far:

I think this lobby has an above average chance for a town win because of the high level of activity and presence of players who have already completed at least one game. The main issue I see going forward is a double edged one, and its that there (seem) to be a lot of disagreeable players in this lobby which will make the game more difficult to play for both sides.

I think the newbie setup is extremely town sided (to account for the presence of players learning the game.) Scum are going to have to survive so many mislynches they are going to be making so many lies and i think most players are going to really suffer in the scum role as long as the town is not really ISP or eating each other alive.

loz:

I do not believe he has posted yet.


ItalianoVD:

I think he/she might be slightly older than the other players and/or have some type of sales background and that causes them to come off a little more slick than the other players. I think this is just a trait of theirs and not really indicative of their alignment. Seems like more of a logical player to me.

shellyc:

Very aggressive, very assertive communicator. Pretty indicative of a behavioral player, maybe has some kind of arts background. Similar to how I played when I was younger. Sometimes a good d1 lynch candidate if he/she is scum telling a little and disruptive to the communication of the town.

Redados:

Seems like d1 lynch bait. I'm not really sure much about him/her yet, I'm curious to see what the rest of his/her posts are like.

rocknil:

I'm not sure, I don't believe he/she has posted much yet.

MUSHSHAGANA:

Seems like the type of player that is safe on d1 but comes under fire later. Seems like he has some kind of arts background. Another assertive communicator but more agreeable (so far) than the others.

MagikHorse: (SE)

Seems like classic d1 lynch bait. Seems analytical and disagreeable. I think there is a high chance they will come under fire soon and a low chance they will ever become a solid d1 lynch.

Tatsuya Kaname: (SE)

Seems like a normal intro.

Conclusion

:

I'm a heavily leaning behavioral style player which means i hunt for hidden indicators of a players alignment. I am an analytical communicator and disagreeable.

I advocate for town to play with this strategy: Plan to use the full 10 days available for the d1 lynch. Keep the activity levels very high, keep the pressure very low during the early days so that everyone gets to open up and have some input and then escalate the pressure during the last few days of the d1 lynch on the best targets to get some solid scum tells.

I'm looking forward to seeing where this game goes and my main goals are to be protown and get some sick d1 reads!