Open 788 - Crossfire - Game Over

[Chemical Elements]

Here's a little absurdity. I'm still at post #800.

[innocentvillager]

glad we figured it out last minute

*post game thoughts:
overall crazy game and it was pretty stressful to get 6 misdunks, but also exciting to work together and dunk the whole team with less than 2 days to go. Thanks Ruby for modding and it was fun!

I yelled about the timer all game - I was literally on every single dunk (I think I was the only one? lol) to try and speed up the game but I think I should've yelled louder. It really fucked us and got us into that shit spot.

I got pretty frantic towards the end especially, tried a bunch of things and as Isis mentioned in Mafia PT my fake votecount idea was pretty detached from reality with the deadline, the problem of translating the fake votecount to the actual votes would've taken way way too long and there were a few other flaws.

I think the only real strategy in our specific spot given a) deadline b) chaindunking problems was to do what we did and have Casey lead the town while the rest of us built cases and tried to solve to support her.

I still think without a single obvtown like Casey this would've been almost unwinnable near the end because of the whole scum influence thing I was mentioning, I think having this kind of unbiased figure is super crucial because even random dunking scores super highly after that from my model. I think that we also got lucky near the end that scum kind of just became complacent and stopped trying as much because they were super likely to win; I maintain that's what somewhat gave them away and part of how we won. All 3 scum were unfortunately in my lean town pool before that though, y'all played super well, had they continued to town it up we would've been absolutely fucked, definitely kudos for getting us into that horrible spot and draining the timer

let me know if you disagree with my thoughts, I'm curious as to what we should've done

[innocentvillager]

and there's the discredit right on cue

Oh no, is there some sort of cookie cutter pattern aside from the 37 others I've deliberately avoided fitting this game that makes that post really scum indicative?
How do I even respond to this?
Like I don't really know. Uhh uhhhhhhhhh UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

What does "discredit" mean in this context?

nvm if you ask i don't think you're trying to discredit me.

I am just like
so good at this alignment
I trained in a Tibetan monastery for 3 consecutive decades
that kind of level

genius!Isis played me so hard here

[Casey]

This was truly an incredible game with an unthinkable comeback. The serious scramble to assemble a solution in the final 48 hours was probably the most positive moment I've experienced while playing mafia.

I really loved this "pure" form of mafia where the only game mechanic was voting. I'm terrible with mechanics and will sheep my gut nine times out of ten. I would absolutely join more Crossfire games in the future.

In terms of balance, I like to think that the number of mislynches required to have a mafia win should be equal to the number of mafia players. That would be -2 townies for this setup.

The fact that we were able to double-dunk in DuLo and essentially pull ourselves out of it was *really* valuable.

I think 8 town / 4 mafia could easily be doable.

* * * *

Now it's thank-you time!!

Ruby Red - I loved, loved, LOVED this setup. It's right up my alley. The basketball gifs and subtle weirdness helped lighten the seriousness of the game. I appreciated it all!

WeyounsLastClone - Sorry about the early dunk! Looking forward to reading the mafia chat!

Hayasaka - You were great this game.

Hellbooks - I thoroughly enjoyed your posting!

Elements - I would have loved to see more of you.

Chemical Elements - I hope to see more of you!

Nono - Yesyes. Thank you for showing me I could snip quotes by highlighting text before tapping the Quote button! Your solves and pressure were endearing.

Hiraki - Thank you for taking this one humbly. Sorry for butting heads so much.

Isis - Just a little more gas and you would have crossed the finish line, I'm sure of it! Thank you for your effort!

Marksman - You clever little trickster. You were the only person in the game who interacted with everyone. Thank you for putting my scumhunting mettle to the test!

Almost50 - Thank you for the respect.

Raya - Thank you for replacing in!

Lavender - Thank you for seeing this one to the end. I hope you had fun!

Innocentvillager - THANK YOU. This guy right here. We spoke on so many wavelengths to solve the game and clear each other. Our back-and-forth was unlike anything I had ever experienced in a mafia game, with each of us building on the other's work. You. Were. The. Best. Town. Buddy. Ever!!

This was definitely one of my most favorite mafia games I've ever played. 10/10 would do it again in a heartbeat!!

[Casey]

Hard agree that Isis carried that team to the bank.

[innocentvillager]

yeah Casey past two RL days collabing with you was awesome and essential for our win! it was really great that we helped give each other more confidence in our reads approaching the game from different angles

as an aside: i will say this game kind of bled into RL mentally for me as well especially at the end lol, I need to be able to separate mafia from RL better (as you can see from my frequent frantic posting), this is partly why i keep going on hiatus after hiatus and I might have to start another one soon because of this but i had a lot of fun so I'm sure I'll be back eventually!

[Almost50]

Nice comeback @town. I was most sincere about not being vote happy though. There were times when we needed only one additional (town on town) vote for us to end the game instantly.

@Ruby: Yeah, that was fun. NGL, but if we didn't lose a member on the first dunk we could have pulled it out still. Like, that vote we needed could've come from our 4th buddy too.

GGA

[Casey]

SCUM PT COMMENTS

@Wey to Marksman: "Even if they lynch me, I think it will pretty much give you safe passage for quite some time."

So true.


@A50: "I didn't even remember WLC was on my team (that's the way I approach my scum games, Forget that I'm scum and act like I am scumhunting for real)."

That... doesn't sound fair. One of the burdens of being on the mafia team is perfect knowledge. And to intentionally lose that disadvantage just doesn't feel like you're playing the game as intended.


DEAD/SPEC PT COMMENTS

@Chemical Elements: "My current guess of the team: Raya36, Lavender, and Casey."

The winning team? Yes. Don't forget IV!

[Casey]

Nice comeback @town. I was most sincere about not being vote happy though. There were times when we needed only one additional (town on town) vote for us to end the game instantly.

I noticed! That's pretty wild.

I love the multi-voting. It makes it so much easier to see who's committing and who isn't.

[innocentvillager]

im not sure what is normally considered balanced for pure normal nightless vanilla (maybe like 4 v 7 would be my guess? 4 v 8 I know is 50% but town outperforms this right?) but the crossfire voting and votes not resetting really hurts town in the late game; as A50 said there were many opportunities for blitz chaindunking (none materialized, but they definitely could've and I probably should've been more explicit about discouraging multivoting in the mid-late game). I think 4 v 9 is probably pretty balanced if I had to make a wild guess, i think 4 v 8 with crossfire starts to get maf sided

[Casey]

yeah Casey past two RL days collabing with you was awesome and essential for our win! it was really great that we helped give each other more confidence in our reads approaching the game from different angles

as an aside: i will say this game kind of bled into RL mentally for me as well especially at the end lol, I need to be able to separate mafia from RL better (as you can see from my frequent frantic posting), this is partly why i keep going on hiatus after hiatus and I might have to start another one soon because of this but i had a lot of fun so I'm sure I'll be back eventually!

<3!

It's important to stay healthy in both body and mind. You take care of yourself. I'll remember this for quite some time.

[Lavender]

Lmao XD
Not voting much at all worked out in the end, I thinks (-｡-;
Chemical-san wanted all of us dead how sad how mean! (>﹏<)
Take care of your backs you two, you had to carry everyone (/ω＼)

[Almost50]

Not voting much at all worked out in the end, I thinks (-｡-;

True. There were times when I wanted to yell at you to spread your votes like everyone else. I'm pretty sure we could've used a couple of votes from you on town right after Raya replaced in and that slot also became active and voting. You probably were the unknown town soldier that kept us from taking you all by surprise.

[Almost50]

Anyway, look me up if you want to play with me again. I mostly play A) Large Theme, B) Large Normal, C) Open, and D) Mini Theme/ I rarely ever play Micros and it's been forever since I played in the Newbie games.

[northsidegal]

im not sure what is normally considered balanced for pure normal nightless vanilla (maybe like 4 v 7 would be my guess? 4 v 8 I know is 50% but town outperforms this right?) but the crossfire voting and votes not resetting really hurts town in the late game; as A50 said there were many opportunities for blitz chaindunking (none materialized, but they definitely could've and I probably should've been more explicit about discouraging multivoting in the mid-late game). I think 4 v 9 is probably pretty balanced if I had to make a wild guess, i think 4 v 8 with crossfire starts to get maf sided

if i recall correctly 4v8 nightless is actually 33% EV, with an in-practice winrate of 50% or higher. i'll check the wiki

chain dunking

is

a real benefit for scum, though. i think that if this setup

needed

to be changed, it'd probably be only minus one VT

[northsidegal]

scratch that, it has an in-practice winrate of 7/8

uhhh wow, didn't expect that, maybe minus two townies is a bit more fair

[innocentvillager]

if i recall correctly 4v8 nightless is actually 33% EV, with an in-practice winrate of 50% or higher. i'll check the wiki

oh im dumb I misread

scratch that, it has an in-practice winrate of 7/8

uhhh wow, didn't expect that, maybe minus two townies is a bit more fair

woah that's crazy, where did you get that stat from?

[northsidegal]

wiki page for Nightless Vanilla

[Casey]

scratch that, it has an in-practice winrate of 7/8

uhhh wow, didn't expect that, maybe minus two townies is a bit more fair

I think typically in a game of mafia you'd have the best & worst town players and worst mafia players dying off first, leaving a gang of middling townies against a the best scum.

In this setup the best townies simply can't be expunged.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Congrats to town! Maybe nightless mafia wasn't the best idea to return to this forum to get back in the game, but it was a fun mechanic and nice players.

[Isis]

GG
I kinda shared my setup thought in the pt. Didn't really want to roll scum in this setup

[Marksman]

Good job on that turn around, town! I lost the will to effort in the last few days, but overall it was quite fun. Isis and Almo were great for us to manage to get to DuLo in the first place.

He has a good style but the problem was that his style never changed throughout the game. The hustle, scramble, and emotional high of DuLo paranoia was lacking to the extreme.

Very true. I really should've tried to fake some of that. You were so obvtown with how you'd be constantly switching your votes and having new thoughts out of paranoia.

Oh, and I will never underestimate you again, inno. Who knew you had like 4 new final forms.

[Raya36]

Thank you Ruby Red for nodding and really good job to mafia for having us tricked for so long! I'm also really impressed with the last few dunks and the turnaround! I wish I was here for that

[Marksman]

Oh, and great job modding as always, NSG. Can't believe you didn't ask me whether I wanted a hydra PT this time.

[Ruby Red]

Thank you Ruby Red for nodding

no problem bro anytime