Mini Theme 2155: SIN: This Impurity must be Cleansed!

[BananaCucho]

I think everyone should post their reads tbh

[BananaCucho]

People I won't vote for today:

Catboi

My POE pool:
Jackel/Starbuck

People I could be convinced to vote for:
Redtea/DD

Thats it. I have no idea who is aligned with Bell/Porkens

[Starbuck]

I need to do the DD ISO. I'm not sure if I said that in my posts earlier or not.

I'm trying hard not to eyeroll at their 1999. It's rich to just have them discredit me the whole game, then ask for me to appease them. I don't think they've read anything that I've written. Not to mention, deeming everything that I post as IIoA is just lazy, at this point. I bet I could get drunk if I took a shot every time they've used that acronym. And yes, I caught up on what I missed from the thread opening until now but I need to do some ISO work and that's not happening tonight. That'll be a tomorrow thing hopefully. Tuesday is out of the question for me as its the Florida Primary.

[catboi]

I'll do real reads tomorrow, I want to re-read the thread in light of the flips.

[Dunnstral]

VC 3.1

Starbuck (1): Dumb and Dumber

Not Voting (5): redtea, BananaCucho, catboi, Starbuck, Jackel98

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-08-22 18:00:00)

With 6 players alive, it takes 4 to eliminate

[BananaCucho]

Where on earth is Jackel

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm trying hard not to eyeroll at their 1999. It's rich to just have them discredit me the whole game, then ask for me to appease them. I don't think they've read anything that I've written. Not to mention, deeming everything that I post as IIoA is just lazy, at this point. I bet I could get drunk if I took a shot every time they've used that acronym. And yes, I caught up on what I missed from the thread opening until now but I need to do some ISO work and that's not happening tonight. That'll be a tomorrow thing hopefully. Tuesday is out of the question for me as its the Florida Primary.

It's day3
We've had two scumflips

Asking you what your reads are is not an unreasonable request in a mafia game at this phase. You shouldn't need to reread the entire game in order to give some off-the-cuff reads

I've read every single post you've written. If you think that I'm not, and that you've actually included some analysis that would indicate where you think scum is (in something less wishy-washy than 'eh i'll need to read some iso's') feel free to quote it and prove me wrong

Like this whole post is discrediting my slot and not addressing the core issue, which is that you're not solving anything

- Dumber

[Dumb and Dumber]

Tuesday is out of the question for me as its the Florida Primary.

Also I hope this goes well

- Dumber

[BananaCucho]

VOTE: JackelSheep

[BananaCucho]

tbh Jackel has coasted way too long. She was a train day 1, I personally gave her a pass early day 2. And since then has basically done... nothing. No gamesolving. Just scumread Norwee for reasons I still don't understand, after the cleric claim doubled down on wanting Norwee out. The only other thought process they have recently (almost a week ago) given is they think I may be 3p

Their iso is empty. There's nothing there. Even if she is VT, I don't want her around in LYLO/MLYLO.

[BananaCucho]

This is a hard claim.

Everyone in this game has the following post restriction,

Corruption

must be said using the following code. Otherwise we will automatically lower your corruption level at night. Please do not make me hurt you I would be very sad if I did.

Code: Select all

 [color=#8080BF][b]Corruption[/b][/color]

~Bee

So the fakeclaim was that if we don’t format corruption in that way, our corruption level goes VOTE: down and RR was

avoiding

that. And that is townread why? Because some roles “might” use corruption differently, even tho those are “likely scum”?

I must be missing something

VOTE: Porkens

Guys flashwagon pls

-Dumbass

VOTE: Porkens
Shameless OMGUS

Anyone wanna wear a tin foil hat with me? If DD is mafia, both of Porkens teammates bussed them early, right after they entered the game

[BananaCucho]

(●ↀωↀ●) something_smart is obvious town for 114.

(๑ↀᆺↀ๑)

Porkens

is also town for his interpretation of the claim, thinking

Radical Rat

was trying to avoid getting corruption lowered and being suspicious of it.

(^・ω・^ ) androgybee probably town? Banana town, I guess. Radical Rat probably town for reasons stated in response to claim.


୧(๑•̀ᗝ•́)૭ Mafia: Dumb and Dumber, Norwee, redtea


(ﾉ^ヮ^)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧ Easy game, people~

ヾ(・ω・*) i like your reads, though the porkens one doesnt make much sense to me... any thoughts on joey? i feel like theyve still had some of the juiciest content.

~Natdia

( =´∀｀)✎ I think porkens expressing distrust of radical rat comes

from a place of genuine belief that they were trying not to lower their corruption levels. It's a town thought process that goes "maybe they are scum who want corruption"

. Joey_ honestly does not leave much of an impression on me. Even going through his ISO, I'm not struck by whatever you see as

juicy~

. I don't think your early read on him is unreasonable as he definitely hasn't done anything towny but mostly his posts are just "meh".

@Catboi
You expressed disliking of Dumb & Dumber giving me townpings. Then you put both me and him as scum. Does that mean you considered us to have partner equity? Because that seems like a very surface level read. Can you explain your scumread on me further in case i misunderstood you here?

(⌯͒ᵕɪᵕ⌯͒)zzZ My post was never intended as a comprehensive solve, just a list of "here are some people whose posts have bothered me". Indeed, if I tried to fit together a comprehensive picture them townreading you would make you less likely to be partners. Your posts had mostly been jokey and fillery and I didn't care for that.

*tin foil hatting intensifies*

Catboi, I dunno how I missed this before. But again, it comes off as TMI in relation to the whole Porkens/Radical Rat thing. I had like 0 thoughts about scum wanting more corruption

Show of hands - before Bell's flip, who here thought scum might want corruption? It could just be with the way my role works I just didn't think of that angle

[BananaCucho]

In somewhat order

NEE

was obvious town pre page 5 and has been absurdly screaming town for the last 2 pages straight, every single post

Catboi

ISO and overall content sucked ass until he started posting for real. I had a mirror read with them and their reactions to my post was excellent. He also towntold in a recent post by showing a very strong t pov (irrc; anyways I remember how I felt when I read his post)

Charmander

is also pretty blatant and open town, there’s isn’t an ounce of malice in his posts and there’s no way someone first game in 5 years could fool me with a tone this good as mefia (inb4)

Something smart

also towntold very early in the game, including his reaction when he started posting after the dumb/joey convo. I am just a bit more paranoid here because the towntells were more “Classic” and tone is not as good as

NEE

/Catboi/Charmander.

Radical

is also probably town for Occam razor and his reaction to his crumb being outed

NMD

Occam says town, tone says town. Lack of content, good vote on red

Starbucks

???

Porkens

/

Alligator

/

Dumb

/

redtea

are my S pool for today

Pick and choose; bad content and/or bad tone and/or incoherence and/or opportunism

Lest we forget Joey's reads, that may or may not have gotten him killed early...

[BananaCucho]

I think I already quoted this post before, it seems familiar, but I'm re-reading the whole game in sequence and it stuck out a 2nd time to me

Town: banana,

nor

,

joey

, possibly

SS

Scummy:

jackel

,

redtea

,

starbuck

I keep vacillating on where to put

androgybee

Everyone else: I don't know

Both Porkens and Radical Rat/Bell are literally no where to be found in the reads list here

I think I my lunch order this is this:

Jackel >> DD >> Starbuck/Redtea (no fucking idea really between these 2) >> Catboi

[catboi]

Anyone wanna wear a tin foil hat with me? If DD is mafia, both of Porkens teammates bussed them early, right after they entered the game

I think if you look at Porkens's reaction to those 2 votes though, it speaks to some difference, though? In 253 he simply attacks RR while questioning DD, speaks to a difference in mentality - he's distancing from rat while genuinely trying to appeal to dumb and dumber. He did shade them somewhat later in his ISO, but the game he was playing might've been to just defend his teammates at every step.

*tin foil hatting intensifies*

Catboi, I dunno how I missed this before. But again, it comes off as TMI in relation to the whole Porkens/Radical Rat thing. I had like 0 thoughts about scum wanting more corruption

Show of hands - before Bell's flip, who here thought scum might want corruption? It could just be with the way my role works I just didn't think of that angle

I didn't have any thought about scum wanting corruption but thought it was a legit process from him. It was a bad read (I've had a lot of those lately). It was also a age 9 read.

[BananaCucho]

Red’s post are the worse in the game so far; exclusively showing a scum pov, being almost too self-aware, apologetic, not inquisitive by answering for the person hes asking/talking to. He sounds like a monologue and NEE “What’s a joke?” Is more towny to me than red’s 3 last wall. It says a lot

I have to wall! I've been such a slowpoke

More seriously:

Joey's

very recent hardass posts #340 and #343 have me reading him as town. That and the fact that after people pointed out he wasn't posting well, he really stepped up his game and has been going strong. The fact he both changed and kept it up is very town to me. I feel like maf are more prone to having a surge of posts before falling back again, or will pick a fight to have something easy to respond to without really hunting. This might be a big reason others are tr'ing him now, and I agree.

Also

I maf-lean

Norwegian

and possibly

banana

(I have a couple things to go back to) and I don't think

Norwegian

would implicate two scum partners in #264 in his town reads so. Any ill-feelings I had towards

Joey

before don't really have room here.
Not to mention the likelihood of grouping together any three players and having

one

of them flip maf. So take this as me teasing the idea of

Norwe

/

banana

, though either/or is more realistic.

Oh, and I just remembered I have a WILD idea. I know how this sounds. Trust me, I know, I knew immediately how it would sound. But what if

bananacucho

needs corruption for, not voting,

but for wincon/to unlock a special ability.

Because he can't vote, then he must gain corruption a different way, as we know. So, should we be more wary of a possible corruption-giver giving corruption (town or maf role)?
No, because it wouldn't really be a big deal given what the mod's said.

But

maybe something will be different Day 2 and we should look out for it.

Redtea seems really obsessed with the idea on day 1 that evils want to get corruption for some reason. If they are Cleric I guess this could make sense? Though my initial thought process if I get that role card is "oh hey I'm a gimped doctor". Though maybe they just

knew

that mafia wanted corruption to survive

[BananaCucho]

Anyone wanna wear a tin foil hat with me? If DD is mafia, both of Porkens teammates bussed them early, right after they entered the game

I think if you look at Porkens's reaction to those 2 votes though, it speaks to some difference, though? In 253 he simply attacks RR while questioning DD, speaks to a difference in mentality - he's distancing from rat while genuinely trying to appeal to dumb and dumber. He did shade them somewhat later in his ISO, but the game he was playing might've been to just defend his teammates at every step.

*tin foil hatting intensifies*

Catboi, I dunno how I missed this before. But again, it comes off as TMI in relation to the whole Porkens/Radical Rat thing. I had like 0 thoughts about scum wanting more corruption

Show of hands - before Bell's flip, who here thought scum might want corruption? It could just be with the way my role works I just didn't think of that angle

I didn't have any thought about scum wanting corruption but thought it was a legit process from him. It was a bad read (I've had a lot of those lately). It was also a age 9 read.

Oh hey Catboi. Thanks for your insight into this Porkens/DD interaction

[catboi]

jackel is simultaneously someone I dread will flip town yet absolutely do not want in a lylo gamestate. They do seem to question joey about voting porkens in 683, give an "i agree but i'll vote elsewhere", refers to porkens as a "mega compromise" in 1107, and that's about it for their read there. Her second post was 153 which was kind of a weird comment on radical rat, basically nothing on bell.

bell and porkens ere also really light on mentions of jackel although that might just be an inactivity thing. porkens repeatedly referred to jackel as "flipbait" but I don't think it's past him to shield a partner that way and hope people out-wifom themselves as thinking it as whiteknighting.

[BananaCucho]

jackel is simultaneously someone I dread will flip town yet absolutely do not want in a lylo gamestate. They do seem to question joey about voting porkens in 683, give an "i agree but i'll vote elsewhere", refers to porkens as a "mega compromise" in 1107, and that's about it for their read there. Her second post was 153 which was kind of a weird comment on radical rat, basically nothing on bell.

bell and porkens ere also really light on mentions of jackel although that might just be an inactivity thing. porkens repeatedly referred to jackel as "flipbait" but I don't think it's past him to shield a partner that way and hope people out-wifom themselves as thinking it as whiteknighting.

The interesting thing about Jackel's early train that I noticed on re-read is that there was some talk about her possibly freezing, since it's been a while since her last game. Something else that crossed my mind is maybe her heart wasn't really in it given the team composition? Prism was replaced a few days into the game by Porkens, and Radical Rat was replaced not too far into the game as well. If your scum team isn't talking to you/not around/getting replaced, and you're an early train... yeah the motivation may just not have been there to give the effort this game precisely due to that

VC 1.3

Jackel98

(3):

NorwegianboyEE

,

catboi

,

Dumb and Dumber

- (

banana

didn't have a day 1 vote, but was here symbolically - post 239)

redtea

(3):

NDMath

,

Joey_

,

Starbuck

Porkens

(1):

Radical Rat

Joey_

(1):

androgybee

androgybee

(1):

Something_Smart

Not Voting (3):

Jackel98

,

Porkens

,

redtea

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-08-02 00:00:00)

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to eliminate[/area]

Prodding Jackel98

VOTE: alligator

UNVOTE:

My 395 vote was when I was catching up, alligator hasn't posted in a while so i won't rush the lynch

Also, the alligator wagon composition seems almost too good to be true, which either means the game is solved or not at all

Another thing to take into account is this thing Joey said about the train on Jackel. The composition of Norwee/Catboi/DD/psuedo-banana seemed almost "too good to be true". It was against this towncore that Porkens pretty much lashed out repeatedly as they were boxed into the POE - constantly scumreading Norwee/Catboi/DD. We know of us 4, unless there is a hidden additional scum then at the very least 3 of us are town. Joey may have been onto it early - the game probably solved early with the early towncore

I'm willing to ride it, see it through some jackel lunch. Let's have some lamb chops

[BananaCucho]

Ok, so my reads, scores from -3 (Scum) to +3 (Townie):

I hate that I think

Joey_

is my strongest townread. The way he thinks, the way he writes, it all really annoys me, but it's coming from a place that I think is townie, and he seems to be putting a lot of effort into that. He believes his reads, however wrong I think they are. +3

My strongest scumread is definitely

NEE

. On the one hand, I recognize that this could be seen as OMGUS, but it really strikes me as odd how, despite being the first one to vote for me in 219 and repeatedly putting me as his strongest scumread, he waits until 288 to give a reason beyond not having a townread, and even there he only echoes

Banana

. In 312, he finally posts original reasons, although I disagree with the reasons. The rest of his reasoning is agreeing with

Joey

, eliminate lurkers, and the potential of more info. This, his other scumreads being mostly based on inactivity, what looked to maybe be a failed attempt at a wagon on

catboi

(this is mostly gut tbh), and that weird trying to get

Starbuck

with a gotcha in 394 just makes me really read this slot as scum. Idk, the rest of his interactions, especially with

Banana

and

Joey

, feel like attempts to buddy or just be jocular or whatever. -3

After

NEE

is

D&D

, but they're a significantly weaker scumread. I don't understand their reads, and that's mostly what they talk about. This read/lean is really just mostly feelings. -1½

Mechanically,

Banana

is probably town. I'm ambivalent about their posting. They are active, but their posts aren't really AI, and their switching between being open and reticent about their role annoys me, but that is probably just paranoia about the possibility of a mafia corruption redirector or whatever posing as a stump, which is really unlikely considering their lack of a vote. -½

S_S

hasn't interacted with many people, despite being relatively active post-wise. He's kept the same vote since post 62. -½

@

Something_Smart

:

Is your vote still where you want it? What are your current reads and opinions?

[Doing more explained reads isn't possible if I want to finish tonight, considering I did fall asleep in the middle already so here goes]

Catboi

: +1½

androgybee

: +¾

redtea

: +1

the rest: 0

My bad, in my head an alligator was ''a he'' by default

No problem, just figured I'd say something now, while it's still relatively early.

Notice something about this initial reads list by Jackel? There is a very distinct lack of red in there. No opinion on our flipped scummies

There's also the pushback on the towncore that has coalesced on her. She scumreads Norwee and DD who are both voting her at the time, has a slight maf-lean on me (pseudo voting her) even though they admit I'm "probably mechanically town". The only one she doesn't push back on is catboi

[BananaCucho]

I want to talk about the shifts in scumreads when I posted my list; everyone’s attention went to red/alligator which is great, it’s just not normal/expected, you know? The game doesn’t work like that if town are correct on their reads. I need someone to exchange their own reads with me so I can bounce some ideas

Do you feel the gamestate I am talking about? There’s a distinct lack of resistance

This lack of resistence was an early concern that I felt on Jackel's wagon too

But now that we know that Rat (afk, this was before Bell subbed in) and Porkens (barely subbed in) were both scum. This makes the lack of resistence make sense

[catboi]

Porkens on Starbuck: listed as "feel town" in 768, says he's "starting to get bad feelings about" her in 1032, but then says he has "no interest in flipping starbuck today" in 1117, continues to go against voting her in 1197 and 1225. Need to cross-reference this with when Bell was trying to get votes on starbuck, but it doesn't quite feel partner-y? He hardly mentions starbuck after the flip.

Bell on Starbuck: he started day 2 off with busing porkens in 791, but seems to pick up on suspicions directed at starbuck in 804 and 837 and says "star’s vagueness is suspicious" in 855, wagon hops in 1063. It is kind of notable that he starts to offer a slight defense of porkens in 1337 and angles toward voting starbuck in 1489 - again it feels like to me if the plan was to bus porkens heading into the day, he'd stick to that, idk. In 1531 he continues to be doubtful of her claim which contrasts a fair deal with how he treated porkens? Just seems like starbuck was much more a misyeet he was trying to switch to from a bus vote.

Okay, so bell's wagon hop coincided with porkens reversing his read on starbuck from "bad feelings" to not wanting to flip her - this feels a lot more like him deciding to stay off a mislynch he judged as likely to happen, rather than avoiding a bus - surely at that point he'd know he was the most likely vote after starbuck and he'd join bell on the vote, the fact he didn't seems more indicative of starbuck as town than anything, else I can't see what the scumteam's plan would be otherwise.

[Jackel98]

Hey, the transformer for my block exploded right before night ended, and it just got fixed today. I'll be catching up and doing a react after I eat dinner. but anyways yeah my reads were like the definition of wrong, i'll admit.

[BananaCucho]

Transformers... more than meets the eye...

[Dumb and Dumber]

Lest we forget Joey's reads, that may or may not have gotten him killed early...

Porkens is the sort of scum who'd unabashedly nk someone who was hard scumreading him

- Dumber