Open 789: Two-Fold 2d3 [Game Over]

[Bell]

..do you really wanna get into a theory discussion at E-1.
Wanna share a reads list??

[Bell]

I don’t have much confidence in your accuracy, so you’re going to have to give ~reasons~ for those reads, if you would be so kind as to share.

[Jake The Wolfie]

..do you really wanna get into a theory discussion at E-1.
Wanna share a reads list??

Jake checks his pocketwatch.

"Oh, I would love to give each detail I could, but it is late. Here is a list I have stiched together:

Myself
Sir Penguin
Sir Menalque
Some of the riff raff, and classfull
Sir Hiraki"

[Bell]

Maybe you can tell us more tomorrow?

That penguin is hurting my self esteem man

[Bell]

UNVOTE:

[Jake The Wolfie]

Maybe you can tell us more tomorrow?

That penguin is hurting my self esteem man

"I shall, if I am not unexpectedly executed."

[Dannflor]

dramonis *does* play like this as mafia, or he tries to

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 4#p9519702 - this is a scum game from dramonic where he has the same sort of self-confident/assertive attitude but he doesn't do a lot of talking about reads. It's mostly spec talk but that might be down to this game being a funky setup.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=11534 - this is another scum game from dramonic that is actually eerily similar in style to this game. He does the "yup I'm voting scum and staying there" schtick from page 5 of the game, and calls out four exact names to be the scum team and sticks with that. However, he's sort of stuck in just calling people scum, and the rest of his posts are fairly empty or fluff posts. It reads like a shallow imitation of what his normal attitude as town is.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=11534 - as town he has the same attitude but tries harder to convince others of his reads. He's a little more cooperative with the playerlist and spends time breaking down what he finds scummy. He keeps the same abrasive attitude but it seems to come more from the perspective of trying to understand the playerlist as well as getting the playerlist to understand his confident reads. This is in contrast to his scum play which I view as closer to just being abrasive for the sake of being abrasive.

All of these games are pretty old (2-3 years) and I could be conf biasing by looking at this. But I *think* this game is closer to his town meta. He's spent enough time explaining his thoughts (even if in a very abrasive way) that I'm not so concerned he's just calling his scum reads scum in order to keep up the town!dramonic facade.

[Bell]

Why did I ever think you were scum dann.
I must have have had a stroke.

Going to bed.

[dramonic]

I might be confbiasing too, but by my second post I had scum in that game (also 1 town, but different setups and mechanics and I'm not about to reread that whole game the sake of this argument)

[dramonic]

The game I was town

[Dannflor]

Dramonic, I’m not sure what you mean by saying my play is focused around not stepping on any toes. It’s true that I tend to approach conflict more diplomatically than some, that is part of my nature, but if my intention was to stay out of the spotlight I wouldn’t be continually trying to argue with you and Hiraki. Or I would be sheeping Menalque, or something. I’m pushing who I’m pushing at the moment because I believe the center of you and Hiraki and Menalque are all town, and scum is more likely to be at the edges of the game, not wanting to disturb the TvT that’s raged on since the beginning of the game.

[teacher]

Going to hammer in about 5 hrs/noon NY time fwiw.

[Menalque]

why not mara?

[Testarossa]

Cool, we got a penguin. Can we keep him?

[Testarossa]

Tbh I am not really that sure what to make out of the current situation.

I agree with Dann that the lack of survivalism speaks a bit in Jake's favour. He is basically just rolling over.

However I am still not seeing anything that is changing my mind here objectively. Even after the replacement the slot looks pretty self-concerned, asking questions that aren't really leading anywhere to and no real attempts at sorting people (besides maybe Mena?). Was kind of hoping for more here.

[Testarossa]

Not feeling the Marashu wagon too much, but at least I would be interested in him explaining his transition from teacher away after rereading the game and what information he is hoping to see in a Jake flip. (alignment aside)

[teacher]

why not mara?

I backed myself off there a bit, but am kinda giving up the ghost on the day as well.

[Marashu]

If we'd rather try to end the day early and use the flip to get information, then that's also worthwhile.

What informationdo you think we're going to get out of the flip that's worth ending the day early?

See:

well like, ur alignment would show bro, so we'd know if you were town or scum

So besides the advantage of knowing whether we hit scum or not (and I do think there's a decent chance of this slot flipping scum), having a wagon to analyze, and NKs, because this is multiball if we can end the day before the scum teams have things sorted, doesn't that mean there's a better chance they hit the other team rather than town? I remember hearing that it's usually to town's benefit to have a shorter D1, and 2 of the 3 games where I lost as scum had D1 end early, if I recall correctly. I'd imagine that especially applies in multiball.

Marashu, did you work anything out about Bell?

Leaning town a bit more than I was before. I think his posts have been a bit better over the last couple days.

yeah but then we'd like, not have jake's alignment and that seems like a pretty big disadvantage, idk

"What advantage would executing me give you, that you would not get from executing Penguin? You may not get my true self, but you'll get Penguin's. Why is mine more important than theirs?"

You're a bit more likely to be lying about your innocence. That said, Gypyx wasn't terribly towny in those few posts, and PP's sheep onto me didn't look terribly good either, so there's also a fair chance of hitting scum there.

I see, what do you think of the votes on you?

I don't see my stance as terribly scummy, so the speed at which it filled is a bit confusing. If it is a counterwagon to get attention away from Jake and if Jake is scum, then it could be that one of {Dannflor, teacher, PenguinPower, Menalque} is scumbuddy with Jake. Slightly less likely is, if the other scum team suspects Jake and they want to keep Jake around, they could also be trying to manipulate it. I'm not getting that feel from Dann or Mena. I also don't think teacher would manipulate this counter-wagon just to bus his partner with intent to hammer - if scum, I don't currently think Jake and teacher are on the same team. PP feels like the most suspicious vote and slot on me if there is scum on the wagon.

Not feeling the Marashu wagon too much, but at least I would be interested in him explaining his transition from teacher away after rereading the game and what information he is hoping to see in a Jake flip. (alignment aside)

Looking at alignment aside is tough, because the information differs depending on alignment. If he flips scum, then at least one person knew that he would flip scum and we'd be able to look for associations. If town, we get a good wagon to examine.

@teach I think Jake is at E-2 so I don't think a hammer is happening without help.

[Jake The Wolfie]

"A thought:

It seems that both evils are voting me, as they both might think that I am evil, so by voting to execute, it will reflect fairly on themselves."

[TemporalLich]

VC 1.16

Jake The Wolfie (5) - Almost50, dramonic, Hiraki, Testarossa, Marashu [E-2]

Marashu (4) - Dannflor, teacher, PenguinPower, Menalque [E-3]
dramonic (1) - Gamma Emerald
Menalque (1) - Dunnstral
Hiraki (1) - Jake The Wolfie

Not voting: Bell

With 13 alive it takes 7 to exile.

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2020-08-23 18:40:00) or when an exile is reached.

Menalque is V/LA until August 21st.

[Jake The Wolfie]

VC 1.16

Jake The Wolfie (5) - Almost50, dramonic, Hiraki, Testarossa, Marashu [E-2]

Marashu (4) - Dannflor, teacher, PenguinPower, Menalque [E-3]
dramonic (1) - Gamma Emerald
Menalque (1) - Dunnstral
Hiraki (1) - Jake The Wolfie

Not voting: Bell

With 13 alive it takes 7 to exile.

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2020-08-23 18:40:00) or when an exile is reached.

Menalque is V/LA until August 21st.

"If I had to pick who the two evil teams' members were voting me, they would be Hiraki and one of either dramonic or Testarossa."

[dramonic]

porque no los dos?

[Hiraki]

I agree with Dann that the lack of survivalism speaks a bit in Jake's favour. He is basically just rolling over.

However I am still not seeing anything that is changing my mind here objectively. Even after the replacement the slot looks pretty self-concerned, asking questions that aren't really leading anywhere to and no real attempts at sorting people (besides maybe Mena?). Was kind of hoping for more here.

I agree hard with this. He just keeps coming in, calling me and someone else, depending on the temperature I guess, scum and then going away. How do you honestly defend that slot? Because doing nothing isn't scummy? I've done this game before too. I don't get how I'm the one being called out for AtE when Jake is literally just coming in and moping about doing his witty ERP thing and then leaving.

Multiple people have asked him for reasons why he thinks myself and others are scum. They're still not here. The above just proves that he has no intentions of going further than stating something.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I agree with Dann that the lack of survivalism speaks a bit in Jake's favour. He is basically just rolling over.

However I am still not seeing anything that is changing my mind here objectively. Even after the replacement the slot looks pretty self-concerned, asking questions that aren't really leading anywhere to and no real attempts at sorting people (besides maybe Mena?). Was kind of hoping for more here.

I agree hard with this. He just keeps coming in, calling me and someone else, depending on the temperature I guess, scum and then going away. How do you honestly defend that slot? Because doing nothing isn't scummy? I've done this game before too. I don't get how I'm the one being called out for AtE when Jake is literally just coming in and moping about doing his witty ERP thing and then leaving.

Multiple people have asked him for reasons why he thinks myself and others are scum. They're still not here. The above just proves that he has no intentions of going further than stating something.

"Could you point me to where people have asked these reasons?"

[Bell]

I did.