Mini Normal 2157 | Over

[VP Baltar]

Inbefore Baltar gets next night again a guilty and you guys reveal there is actually a fourth Mason.

You're actually all masons and we only win this by choosing not to eliminate someone. Check your role PM again.

[Datisi]

billy made a passing thought about a watcher... man that would be hilarious if he got caught like that...

also if anyone else is a town power role, they should probably claim. that would mean something very fishy is going on.

pedit: ah yes, this is actually a 12player masonry and a poor pt cop
the flips so far have all been trolls
this is an elaborate prank on baltar
surprise

[VP Baltar]

It's basically the Truman show to me

[Alduskkel]

a bad version of Conspiracy

[VP Baltar]

@Ico Testarossa is practically guaranteed Town, should never be in any POE.

How is this again?

Also curious about what your thoughts were when I said I had a positive result? You were asking me for my results, but then kind of ignored me when I said it. Were you expecting the PT result on hellbrooks?

[Testarossa]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81560

this is the one i pulled up in mason chat earlier. i haven't yet gone to check if there are any more.

considering we have a full pt cop AND a tracker, scum definitely has counterplay. rolecop makes sense.

Thank you, that's a good example.

I was on the edge if a scum PT Cop would be a fitting counter to hunt for the Masons. But as weak investigative to three conftowns it seems to work too. And Billy kill highly suggests Rolecop like you already assumed.

Yes, in this case I am inclined to agree with you that if there is no further town power, then we leave Baltar doing his stuff as now his guilties should really be hard guilties.

[Datisi]

i think scum PT cop could fit, but in that case there is more town power (3masons v 3goons is considered slightly scumsided in a closed game, that + scum PT cop wouldn't pass review), which is why i'm saying, if you're town and not a VT, you should probably say something.

[Datisi]

err, there's a town tracker too, but like. i don'tt hink that's a good enough offset for scum PT cop? also idk baltar is dead tonight anyway.

[VP Baltar]

also idk baltar is dead tonight anyway.

What an LOL life he had.

RIP

ACAB

[Alduskkel]

andres come back to the thread

[Andresvmb]

No I’m not arguing AT ALL that I think it’s BS.

[Andresvmb]

I had Datisi, Testarossa, Billy and Iconeum as hard Towns coming into today. With Hellbooks now Confirmed Town (Datisi is Confirmed, so Hellbooks is too), and VPB off the table (and practically Confirmed, but will resolve itself anyway), my pool of players is, well, tiny.

[Andresvmb]

This is what I had on DkKoba prior to all of this coming out:
DkKoba has been responsible for a lot of bad pushes (which sadly have happened with my help), so I am rescinding my read there. DkKoba’s chaotic posting style makes it much harder to read them, and their aggressiveness/outspokenness made me think they had to be Town, but the Town bodies have done nothing but pile up. In fact, I should probably pay close attention to what I wrote on 1491. In any case, Testarossa made the point that some of their voting moves have been somewhat unnecessary for Scum, so there is some apprehension behind my SR here, but I feel like I need to put it out there. It doesn’t help that I now disagree with most everything on 1680. I am also of the opinion that only one of DkKoba/NPOM is Scum at maximum, given how they have gone after each other almost all game.

[Andresvmb]

@Testarossa, in 1855 you wrote that you think DkKoba is trigger happy Town. Do you maintain that?

[Andresvmb]

And Testarossa is Town because the same wagon that resulted in Bob almost executes D1 did the same to Testarossa. Odds are, both were Scum motivated.

[Andresvmb]

^Almost executed*

[Andresvmb]

@Ico Testarossa is practically guaranteed Town, should never be in any POE.

How is this again?

Also curious about what your thoughts were when I said I had a positive result? You were asking me for my results, but then kind of ignored me when I said it. Were you expecting the PT result on hellbrooks?

Hellbooks as a check makes a lot of sense. If I had been a PT Cop, I probably check there too. So I was expecting you to either come out and say that you had checked Datisi (since you had revealed a positive, which would have made you Scum in my eyes), or come out with an actual positive (Town).

[Andresvmb]

Also, NPOM’s hammer yesterday was Scummy as all shit. I hate that I kept finding reasons to TR the slot.

[Andresvmb]

Billy had NPOM as Scum, and Bob had Alduskkel as Scum. We really should start here.

[Alduskkel]

At first I thought Andres was scum but I'm starting to think he's misguided town. I think scum would have backed off pushing Icon after facing so much resistance from multiple players.

This is textbook Icon townplay. It's an emotional player who tends to get into fights. I think in this game it's clear Icon is sorting people and the idea that scum-Icon just attacks anyone that attacks it is too rooted in some theory of how scum act rather than how they (and in particular, Icon) act in practice.
---

also thinking atm that NPOM has higher scum equity if snowblaze is town actually

Talk to me about this more.
---
Maybe I'm just projecting, but Snowblaze's play reminds me a lot of when I'm town and having trouble getting scumreads. I just don't see this slot as scum.

VOTE: Testarossa. I took up Koba's offer to iso Testa and there's a lot of hedging language in there. Try doing a find-in-page highlight of the word "but" and you'll see it's all over the place.

I want to give this wagon some momentum and see where it goes.

I never realy liked this vote of ald's. He never really does anything to defuse the snow wagon. Combined with no real strong reason of his for his vote on teste.

If i was scum and faced with a snow town wagon. Unless already comitted i would try and create a counter wagon. Either i get the counter wagon through and let town eat it self the next day. or i get some town cred for being against teh lynch of the flipped townie. as a wagon with no counter wagon forming is a sign of that player being town.


I don't like the use of him saying “I'm town and having trouble getting scumreads”. Felt two fold, first like a potential scum slip and second a scum player assigning their characteristics to match a player they know is town. Who could potentially get lynched.


Now the first not strong as i know i make a conscious effort as a town to avoid such wording lest it give the appearance of a false scum slip. Now the latter could be me over thinking and seeing plays I make in others.

This is the bulk of Bob's case on me, right?
1. I don't see how I could have defused the snow wagon when my read was based off of "this reminds me of my own town play" ... when I often get eliminated as town for similar reasons that SB was scumread for at the time. I didn't think I could convince people my SB townread was right by just defending her so I thought it'd be better to work towards eliminating players I thought were scum.
2. I disagree with saying my Testarossa vote had "no real strong reason." It was a tonal/language read that I stand by, and too many people voted Testa for them to all be scum so at least some townies agreed with the reasoning.
3. I mean Bob himself acknowledges this isn't very strong as a scumslip and that the latter could be overthinking. Occam's Razor is just that I'm town and saw similarities in SB's townplay to my own townplay.

[Andresvmb]

testa

open hand/shotgun reads

who's the scumteam/PoE for you right now?

Aldus, hellbooks, Andres/Koba.

NPOM is atm more of a wild card to me, need to reread his interactions with those above. Tbh was originally having Baltar in this poe, was not expecting him with coming in with a positive result.

I mean, this is exactly what I expected from Testarossa’s perspective (as Town), and is literally what I was going to push coming into today (outside of my own self of course).

Hopefully you guys can read me correctly here, because if I make us lose I’ll actually be sad. And how do you lose a game with 3 Masons? That’s got to be awful.

Also, if we have Hellbooks as Town, then you can probably tell that Hellbooks/NPOM is not TvT from these interactions: 793, 795, 1634.

[Andresvmb]

@Aduskkel is always Scum from my perspective so you guys need to figure out what you want to do.

[Alduskkel]

how can you be *that* certain I'm scum

[Andresvmb]

Also, the case against DkKoba is stronger by his reaction at the start of this Day. None of that reads planned to you all? Billy flips as the Tracker, and you think the Scum hadn’t concocted a plan to use that to try and get Datisi too?

[VP Baltar]

Also, if we have Hellbooks as Town, then you can probably tell that Hellbooks/NPOM is not TvT from these interactions: 793, 795, 1634.

Hasn't like everyone had a shouting match with NPOM at this point though? He's incredibly frustrating. How are you arriving at the conclusion it couldn't be TvT?