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[Andresvmb]

Do you really think it’s highly unlikely that Scum thought it would be prudent to distance?

ok but it's not *distancing*

it's "i don't like this *town wagon1*, i want *this town wagon2*, except i'm gonna do very little to stop wagon1 or push wagon2, then i'm gonna push wagon2 tomorrow after i get some Towncred"

Have you never seen Scum hard bus a Teammate?

[Datisi]

i don't think you're an idiot regardless your alignment

at this point almost everyone has had some sorta argument with npom, and the way yesterday was going, it seemed pretty likely npom is gonna be the next target today

however current wagons and flips (and considering hellbooks was regarded as a likely scum meaning the "collective" PoE is very wrong) i have a feeling scum has been running this show which makes me highly skeptical the ~designated~ wagon for today is on scum

[Datisi]

Do you really think it’s highly unlikely that Scum thought it would be prudent to distance?

ok but it's not *distancing*

it's "i don't like this *town wagon1*, i want *this town wagon2*, except i'm gonna do very little to stop wagon1 or push wagon2, then i'm gonna push wagon2 tomorrow after i get some Towncred"

Have you never seen Scum hard bus a Teammate?

counterpoint: did that look lime *hard* bussing to you?

[Andresvmb]

i don't think you're an idiot regardless your alignment

at this point almost everyone has had some sorta argument with npom, and the way yesterday was going, it seemed pretty likely npom is gonna be the next target today

however current wagons and flips (and considering hellbooks was regarded as a likely scum meaning the "collective" PoE is very wrong) i have a feeling scum has been running this show which makes me highly skeptical the ~designated~ wagon for today is on scum

I’m not voting for NPOM though! I’m on Alduskkel. I have a very strong feeling that Alduskkel is far better.

[Andresvmb]

Do you really think it’s highly unlikely that Scum thought it would be prudent to distance?

ok but it's not *distancing*

it's "i don't like this *town wagon1*, i want *this town wagon2*, except i'm gonna do very little to stop wagon1 or push wagon2, then i'm gonna push wagon2 tomorrow after i get some Towncred"

Have you never seen Scum hard bus a Teammate?

counterpoint: did that look lime *hard* bussing to you?

Scum don’t always just start yelling THIS PLAYER IS SCUM YEET HERE for Town cred. All I’m saying is that arguing that NPOM/Alduskkel is never SvS is wrong in my view because of what I’ve been pointing to. But again it’s just my view.

[Alduskkel]

I'm having *a lot* of trouble understanding why you're scumreading me more than you are NPOM or even Koba.

[Andresvmb]

I am not Scum Reading any of you differently. But Datisi is right that NPOM has been mis-execution bait (I’ve made this point numerous times now), so I’m trying to avoid making a horrible mistake and I’m sheeping a Confirmed Town that’s clearly on point and called out the Masons as Town.

[Alduskkel]

VOTE: Andresvmb

Call it OMGUS if you like but I think you're deliberately engaging me in bad faith. You keep retreating to Bob's reads and aren't actually engaging with my defense. I don't know if you're just saving NPOM for later or if he's your scumpartner but I don't buy your unwillingness to vote him either. Also, your earlier reaction to there being 3 masons felt like a perspective slip that you were upset, when town would be happy about it.

[Andresvmb]

Yeah, perspective slip. Sure. I wasn’t “upset” btw. It seems to me like the setup is a bit funny. That’s all.

[Andresvmb]

And how am I engaging you in bad faith exactly?

[VP Baltar]

i lowkey think no scum has been seriously threatened so far

This is my concern, and partially why I looked into hellbrooks last night.

Tess/Andres/Aldus/Icon/Koba have all more or less skated by without too serious pressure this game, Tess perhaps being the one exception early game.

[Alduskkel]

And how am I engaging you in bad faith exactly?

It's like nothing I say gets through to you. You've decided you're going to push me and aren't interested in anything that might get in the way of that.

[Andresvmb]

There’s like 4 choices for Scum from my POV, and I have one solid TR within that group. Why would I ever just listen to your defense when it’s all based on how you can spin another player’s push on you? Like what?

[Alduskkel]

Okay but your Testa TR feels overblown.

Yo, how many times do I have to explain the same thing over and over? DkKoba did a tremendous job of making me doubt my early TR of Testarossa. I’m concluding that DkKoba is Scum, so Testa is Town. Testa, via wagon analysis, concluded Bob was Town and did not want to push that. Testa has the same POE as I do... all in all, Testa is very likely Town from where I sit.

You can't say Testa is town because Koba is scum, because Koba being scum is due to your PoE which relies on Testa being town. It's circular logic. Why is Testa town for not pushing Bob but I'm not town for the same thing? How does having the same PoE as you make someone town? It might just mean your reads are where scum want them to be.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t need my Testa read to be rock solid to make a decision here. I’m at 3/4, and my strongest TR is Testa. There’s a lot of reasons to think DkKoba could be Scum here. It just isn’t circular logic at all.

So why don’t you tell us why Testa is Scum then?

[Andresvmb]

And even if Testa/DkKoba was the uncertainty btw, you and NPOM are still solidly Scum. We don’t have to make a decision between DkKoba and Testa here to get to a good solution.

You’re boxed into getting into this with me, so I respect that. But arguing that I am coming at you from a position of bad faith is just bad.

[Alduskkel]

A lot of hedging of reads, and very little actual scumhunting on Day 2 -- a lot of questions but not a lot of strong stances on who's scum.

I feel like you're trying to divert the conversation right now though. I just told you why none of your reasons for TRing Testa make sense, and you just deflected by saying you don't need to be rock solid -- even though it sounds like your read IS rock solid from the way you've been talking.

pedit: Okay so if NPOM is solidly scum then why are you refusing to consider voting him today?

Also, I'm not "boxed in." In a world where I'm scum and you're town I could have just said you were misguided and pushed some other player -- for example, either of my previously stated scumreads, NPOM and Test.

[Andresvmb]

Having hard stances clearly is not the way to figure out who is Town. Otherwise Janko would still be alive, and GeorgeBailey would be Scum instead of Town. And Snowblaze, who made the specific point that they don’t form strong reads D1, would have flipped Scum. How much more evidence do you need before you drop that way of figuring out Town?

[Andresvmb]

Or was it Hellbooks? It doesn’t matter, the point is the same.

[Andresvmb]

And if that’s the way that you infer who is Town and who is Scum, how do you ever conclude I’m Scum?

[Alduskkel]

I've already told you how I've concluded you're scum.

[Andresvmb]

Yeah but it’s bullshit. You’re saying I’m not engaging you in good faith. It’s a nonsense argument.

[Andresvmb]

I’ll put it this way - you’re ascribing Scum motivation to my push on your slot when I’m agreeing with a Confirmed Town player that’s flipped and had the game broadly right, and when we have near certainty that multiple players are Confirmed Town {Datisi, Hellbooks, VPB}, with one of those players having a strong TR of Ico.

[NoPowerOverMe]

This looks like TvS or TvT not SvS. I'm inclined to think TvS and I'm leaning scum!Andres but I'm unsure based on two town lynches.

[Andresvmb]

I say near certainty because VPB is not Confirmed Town, but nearly so.