Open 789: Two-Fold 2d3 [Game Over]

[Bell]

I suspect you aren’t reading the game very throughly Jake.
Sigh I just don’t know about jake. It’s kind of one of those “Well, he’s not doing anything to keep himself alive rn”
Which bends further into that lack of survivalism, I don’t agree with the hiraki vote not being survivalism or being construed as survivalism. But how he’s playing now definitely puts him into the non-survivalism camp.’

Jake, put on your private eye hat and true again.

[Bell]

Sorry if you’re town btw I kind of hate this sort of elimination. Because if I were a better player I would know what you were instead of putting the onus on you to show it.

[Hiraki]

I agree with Dann that the lack of survivalism speaks a bit in Jake's favour. He is basically just rolling over.

However I am still not seeing anything that is changing my mind here objectively. Even after the replacement the slot looks pretty self-concerned, asking questions that aren't really leading anywhere to and no real attempts at sorting people (besides maybe Mena?). Was kind of hoping for more here.

I agree hard with this. He just keeps coming in, calling me and someone else, depending on the temperature I guess, scum and then going away. How do you honestly defend that slot? Because doing nothing isn't scummy? I've done this game before too. I don't get how I'm the one being called out for AtE when Jake is literally just coming in and moping about doing his witty ERP thing and then leaving.

Multiple people have asked him for reasons why he thinks myself and others are scum. They're still not here. The above just proves that he has no intentions of going further than stating something.

"Could you point me to where people have asked these reasons?"

Why don't I point you to the part where you agreed to go into those reasons today?

..do you really wanna get into a theory discussion at E-1.
Wanna share a reads list??

Jake checks his pocketwatch.

"Oh, I would love to give each detail I could, but it is late. Here is a list I have stiched together:

Myself
Sir Penguin
Sir Menalque
Some of the riff raff, and classfull
Sir Hiraki"

[dramonic]

Sorry if you’re town btw I kind of hate this sort of elimination. Because if I were a better player I would know what you were instead of putting the onus on you to show it.

..."this sort of elimination"?

[Menalque]

Sorry if you’re town btw I kind of hate this sort of elimination. Because if I were a better player I would know what you were instead of putting the onus on you to show it.

..."this sort of elimination"?

It’s kind of one of those “Well, he’s not doing anything to keep himself alive rn”

[Menalque]

I'm slightly uneasy with the timing of dann's big post on why I'm town but willing to let it slide mostly on the basis of his V/LA

It's concerning to me that he waited until after I was burned out on the game to like... meaningfully support me in the game despite TRing me from much earlier before that? idk if dann knows me well enough to do that strategically though, and actually I'm inclined to say he doesn't, so it's probably town. but like equally I felt remiss not to mention that I was feeling a little uneasy about it in case I was killed tonight and dann was to then use it as towncred "oh look how hard I tried to get people to stop going after town!" type of thing

**

idk if maybe I should have dram and hiraki the other way around after reading the games dann linked for meta. maybe. it was certainly funny seeing dram do the exact same thing he's done here to NSG in the year she won paragon

[Menalque]

UNVOTE: My last post ~never happpened~

I figure the jake elimination will fill on its own, and i’m not particularly interested in my own alignment.
Marashu wagon is easy. But see nothing concrete.

what did this mean btw bell?

[Menalque]

See:

In post 1219, Menalque wrote:
well like, ur alignment would show bro, so we'd know if you were town or scum

So besides the advantage of knowing whether we hit scum or not (and I do think there's a decent chance of this slot flipping scum), having a wagon to analyze, and NKs, because this is multiball if we can end the day before the scum teams have things sorted, doesn't that mean there's a better chance they hit the other team rather than town? I remember hearing that it's usually to town's benefit to have a shorter D1, and 2 of the 3 games where I lost as scum had D1 end early, if I recall correctly. I'd imagine that especially applies in multiball.

u realise I was being entirely facetious when I wrote that, yes?

[Menalque]

I think it looks kinda of bad for mara that he's trying to use something I wrote that was fundamentally a joke/obviously a terrible reason to support his vote here

[Bell]

@Mena Jake wasn’t doing anything that was blowing me away I figured it would be the same for others so I wanted to see who would vote Jake for more info on them later.
@I don’t see anything that particularly makes me think Marushu is scum. I was contrasting the easy Mara wagon because I suspect marashu is new, andhe might put his foot in his mouth versus the vote I was placing on Dan which is not easy. And now I think, dumb.
#1274 shifted my read so I moved off and made a move on jake to progress.

[Almost50]

I think you have like a really flawed view of how I approach games, and I think saying that I only trust my own reads is indicative of that because that's like, deeply not true

If you say so

[Menalque]

@Mena Jake wasn’t doing anything that was blowing me away I figured it would be the same for others so I wanted to see who would vote Jake for more info on them later.

so, definitely not a scum slip, right? just checking

[Bell]

@Mena Jake wasn’t doing anything that was blowing me away I figured it would be the same for others so I wanted to see who would vote Jake for more info on them later.

so, definitely not a scum slip, right? just checking

Glad you seem interested in the game again.
Definitely not. Or else I would have taken the wagon.

[Menalque]

ehhh I'm a very mood based player. I'm just trying to get better. sometimes I find things frustrating and I get too emotionally involved. I'm working on it.

so like what exactly do you think of Jake now?

[Bell]

He’s been in the lobby for awhile, I’m hoping he’s writing a noir novel that solves the game.

[Bell]

What do you think of testarossa?

[Menalque]

I think testa is likely to be scum, I think the way they've like faded in and out and not really offered anything much when they have been here (or like, she has been posting but just I don't remember any of it which makes me think I'm null on it) is +scum especially with me/dram/hiraki/dann/teacher going at it at various points and distracting attention. if I'm scum there and watching that, I want to let the townies kill each other and then push the ones who 'won' the next day for leading a guillotine on town

[Bell]

That lines up with a natural progression over the last 3-4 days since I joined.in regards to your reads anyway.

[Bell]

Why are you voting marashu?

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:

I've been missing too many points, and my reads are out of date. I'm going to give this game a thorough re-read in the morning and sort out where my head is at.

I guess like

I think posts like this come from scum a lot. like they feel like they need to justify their absence a lot more than town normally do who like, if they have time to check in more typically use that time to do what sorting they can instead of just apologising

I think dann kinda had a point on how he pushed for teacher (independent, thinking for himself) but then didn't really pursue it which makes it look like a very empty push? but I think he said he was more confident on that.

then he comes back to thread and votes you which is a vanity and just feels like the avoidance of being useful or giving a like ~*strong take*~ on what's going on while still having the semblance of activity.

then like as pressure mounts on him he comes back to the thread and votes his counter wagon more or less immediately

then most recently the decision to justify it -- and to think my reasons were serious -- and make sense to use of them in a defense of yourself, that just seems more like it's scum thinking and not town thinking? because it feels like most town wouldn't look at that and think "aha these are serious reasons for why mena thinks Jake would be a good flip today!" but I can totally see scum going "aha! this post also says that flipping Jake today good because X! I can use it to show that other people agree with me/in defence of myself!"

[teacher]

Jake, why so confident on the gypyx/Penguin slot?

[Menalque]

I'm kinda surprised you don't prefer mara tbh teacher

[teacher]

I do prefer him - my vote is there. Just found that aspect of the readslist odd.

[Menalque]

so then why you gonna hammer Jake when it's pretty viable we can do mara today?

[Bell]

Reality check:
1. I justify my absence a lot. I also think it's relatively human to say "I'm trying to think about X" when in fact, they're saying "I'm telling myself I need to think about X but I'm overwhelmed so this is like a book mark for later, that, if I can summon the will, I will get back to this" This is, ofc, a cognitive load sign, but that works either way depending on what is happening irl, what they're thinking about ingame, etc. I know that's not exactly what he said, but I think the spirit of it is there.
2. counter point: I'm not sure what he gets as scum for going off and voting someone else to justify his activity versus looking at what everyone else is voting and sharing a take about it.
3. Vanity wagon is a new term for me. Is it a vanity wagon to vote who you think is a scum read just because your own opinion has shifted out of alignment with everyone else's? Agree that the push is pretty empty and that announcing it is poor play(kind of, but it happens a lot). Billy did the same thing tho and he was town. *shrug*
4. Survivalism vote was noted, still not sure if he was just chastened or scum (or both) both explanations work to me.
5. Huh.