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[NoPowerOverMe]

Now is not the time to be lynching people you have a personality conflicts with.
I

[VP Baltar]

a PR that is part of a 3 man masonry??? thats just fucking strong!

Right, but I think my role definitely had a non-zero chance of basically helping the scum by accident through false positives very quickly. Even at a random pick, I had ok odds of hitting a mason and thinking I had scum. Further, masons had a higher likelihood to get hit simply because they would appear to play like scum to the uninformed majority. Masons aren't going to be worried as much with being associated with each other because they always have the emergency out of claiming. Those associatives could draw a cop investigation

[Andresvmb]

i still dont understand why town would get 2 investigatives AND 3 towns confirmed to themselves AND a way for one of the investigatives to hide their claim behind a person who is not the PR themselves.

a PR that is part of a 3 man masonry??? thats just fucking strong!

THIS is why I had the reaction I had to the Claims. Not some dumb perspective slip. I have my doubts about DkKoba as I’ve already explained, but the points about game balance are absolutely correct. It seems ridiculous to me that Town would have a 3-Person Masonry with a Tracker, and a separate PT Cop who could then point out Scum or independently confirm members of a Masonry if they happened to stumble upon them. That’s 4 players that cannot be executed if their Claims ended up all panning out, which here they have. Now, the PT Cop is obviously an actual Role in the game. Now, VPB could theoretically still be Scum. They were forced to claim by a well placed Tracker, and it *could* be the case that VPB isn’t actually the PT Cop but was told the result of a check by the actual Scum PT Cop to help cover his ass (since they were found by the Tracker), which has now been flipped. The only way to sort this is by correctly TK’ing Scum here.

[VP Baltar]

Koba, if you had to pick out of Andres and Aldus, who would you yeet?

[Andresvmb]

Anyway, Alduskkel is voting for me, and is strongly pushing for NPOM as a potential alternative by repeatedly suggesting it’s the slot to flip. One of Alduskkel/NPOM is almost always Scum here, it’s just a matter of getting it right.

[Andresvmb]

The way to counter a 3-way Masonry would be by giving the Scum a Role Cop and a PT Cop. Like, I can somewhat see that. And then, a lot of the arguments about why Bob had VPB as a hard Scum start making a lot of sense. Anyway, I also wrote down the following notes on VPB:
924, 952, 1179, 1265 from VPB are bad. Bob’s point in 1269 is reasonable. And 1318 might be why GB was NK’ed.

[Andresvmb]

That last one isn’t a point about VPB but George but anyway you get the point.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway I feel like I’m in tin foil hat territory. VPB is not much better than a 50/50, and the check on Hellbooks is perfectly sensible from my POV. However, I just got out of a game where a player was observed visiting a kill, and the Town made all kinds of excuses as to why that player was Town and they ended up being Scum. We should try and be absolutely certain that we’re not getting this clear wrong.

[Andresvmb]

Now I’ve put most of my notes on this game out there. That’s all I really have. Also, and this is a probabilistic argument - it is far more likely that a Scum PT Cop would correctly identify *two* Masons, than a Town PT Cop that was looking at the complete pool of players. Something to think about.

[Datisi]

i think it's fairly reasonable to assume scum had some sorta way to gain info about billy. and *not* just about billy being a mason (that is, not by *just* a PT cop), because a claimed tracker gets shot over a mason anytime. (not to mention, if the scumteam did have a PT cop who got a positive on billy on night one, there's nothing guaranteeing billy isn't just a neighbor. i don't think any scumteam shoot him just for that over a literal claimed tracker)

and if the scumteam did have some sorta way to find out info about billy (e.g. rolecop), then it's perfectly within balance for town to have both masons and a PT cop. (especially because the PT cop is like 50/50 between getting an actual guilty vs outing a mason. those things are taken into account when game is designed.)

again, if there's anyone else who is town and not a VT, say so immediately. otherwise, all 4 PRs are town, and we go from there.

[Andresvmb]

I hate being this paranoid, and the other part of it is that I’m no expert in game balance. I am not the type of player that solves mechanically all that often, so that’s another thing. This is the type of argument I’m least comfortable making.

[VP Baltar]

Serious question though, you want to yeet me today, Andres? Because I feel like you've been trying to edge around that as being a logical thing to do with hopes it gains traction.

[Andresvmb]

Do you see where my vote is?

[NoPowerOverMe]

I think reviewers and players have a different idea on what makes a game balanced. That WIFOM is not helpful for finding scum.

[Alduskkel]

Anyway, Alduskkel is voting for me, and is strongly pushing for NPOM as a potential alternative by repeatedly suggesting it’s the slot to flip. One of Alduskkel/NPOM is almost always Scum here, it’s just a matter of getting it right.

I thought you had us as both scum. Now it sounds like you think only one of us is scum. Which is it?

Anyway I feel like I’m in tin foil hat territory. VPB is not much better than a 50/50, and the check on Hellbooks is perfectly sensible from my POV. However, I just got out of a game where a player was observed visiting a kill, and the Town made all kinds of excuses as to why that player was Town and they ended up being Scum. We should try and be absolutely certain that we’re not getting this clear wrong.

I say near certainty because VPB is not Confirmed Town, but nearly so.

Ugh you know what I’m not all that inclined to put this much effort into a game if I am going to be accused of doing Scum theater. What kind of idiot do you think I am that I put myself in the tiniest box possible here. Alduskkel is still saying that there’s an outside chance that VPB is Scum. C’mon now.

Okay so is VPB nearly conftown or just 50/50? Am I really scummy (or are you really townie?) for saying there's a chance that VPB is scum when that's literally what you're saying now?


Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing the blatant contradictions in these posts.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Part of me says VP has acted consistantly scummy and wants to lynch him. Another part of me says we don't want to lose a town PR on a hunch.

[Andresvmb]

Wait, please give us your perfect solve then @Aduskkel.

[VP Baltar]

Do you see where my vote is?

I do see where your vote is. That's not what I asked though.

If you had control of however many votes, would you yeet me today?

[Alduskkel]

Wait, please give us your perfect solve then @Aduskkel.

Nice try at deflecting.

[DkKoba]

Koba, if you had to pick out of Andres and Aldus, who would you yeet?

gun to my head if i were told that at least one of them is scum with 100% guaranteed certainty, I'd say andres with their sudden shift.

[DkKoba]

Part of me says VP has acted consistantly scummy and wants to lynch him. Another part of me says we don't want to lose a town PR on a hunch.

why do u consistently act scummy and then come up with gems like this that give me pause.

[Andresvmb]

If you take VPB for Town, the Team from my perspective is almost always {Alduskkel, DkKoba, NPOM}. If you accept that VPB is not perfectly cleared for a second, then the Team composition changes, and I’m not sure what I would say the three members are in that case. However, Alduskkel’s attempts at discrediting me seem to carry an agenda, so I am still very happy with my vote.

[NoPowerOverMe]

It's part of my charm.

[Andresvmb]

Do you see where my vote is?

I do see where your vote is. That's not what I asked though.

If you had control of however many votes, would you yeet me today?

No. I would yeet exactly where my vote is. I could not in good conscience yeet your slot that very well might be a Town PR, and I’m just an idiot for doubting it.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Maybe his agenda is finding scum.