Micro 962: Geriatric Trio II (Town Victory)

[Bingle]

19 was townish on the face of being an early attempt to engage over reads, but not something you'd be unable to fake.

23 solidified the read. Dats was copying someone from a recentish shared game. A game in which I had basically had the same reaction to functionally that post from town as Reck did, tunneled on that town slot until it was mechanically proven town, and also put up a strong showing where I accurately got 2/3 scum by the end of Day 2. That game was a showcase of how difficult I can be to talk down or minimize, how difficult I can be to miseliminate, and how accurate my reads can sometimes be (they're really very hit and miss in actuality, but Dats doesn't have a ton of experience with me so I wouldn't expect him to take that into account). I also accurately called him out as town and defended him until he was hammered D1, implying that I have a strong ability to read Dats' alignment.

As such, I find it far more likely that Dats would copy that action as town hoping to inspire the same type of discussion as was in that game than that Dats would intentionally provoke a scumread onto himself from specifically me (the only overlap in the playerlist afaik) when his impression of me should be that I'm particularly dangerous to scum him. I also don't think that Dats would have put enough thought into the action to be anticipating that reaction from me as scum.

I even attempted to signal to Dats in 34 that I was thinking all of this, although I'm not sure how much of it he worked out given that the signal was pretty lowkey. When he responded that he wasn't ready to 'do the thingy' I assumed that meant he wanted me to let things play out a bit more before sharing all of this, though, and I backed off to soft defending your slot when it seemed to be under undue levels of pressure.


With all of that said, the fact that none of my detractors (or anyone else, for that matter) have commented on what should have seemed to be an unnatural defense of your slot has raised my hackles a bit.

[xRECKONERx]

SORRY FOR V/LA

work is an absolute bitch this week trying to get ready for taking PTO starting friday so ill be touch and go until then

[Aristophanes]

VC 1.5

Bingle

(3): Kmd4930 7, The Bulge 145, clidd 152

Sou and Kanna

(3): AGar 26, xReckonerx 31, Michael Scott 197

clidd

(1): Porkens 88

The Bulge

(1): Sou and Kanna 41

Porkens

(1): Bingle 176

Not Voting

(0):

Nobody!

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to Eliminate
Day one ends Tuesday, August 25th at 8:30pm EST, or in (expired on 2020-08-25 20:30:00)

Mod Notes:

Reck is V/LA

Porkens has used 1/20 Reserve Posts
clidd has used 19/20 Reserve Posts
Just a reminder that Post Counts reset at 8:30pm EST for this phase and that your Reserve Posts are a game-long reserve.

[clidd]

I'm kind of coasting right now, I don't feel very energetic.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[AGar]

Lotsa folks high on their own stuff, huh?

KMD, where art thou to explain your Bingle vote more? I tire of patience.

Last couple MS posts have been :goodposting:, waiting to make sure the other head doesn't go and boof that progress for them.

Ayyo Porkens

, why you still voting clidd if clidd's outburst was towntelling to you to the point of aggressively coming at me for binning it as null and not something I care about?

[Porkens]

Lotsa folks high on their own stuff, huh?

KMD, where art thou to explain your Bingle vote more? I tire of patience.

Last couple MS posts have been :goodposting:, waiting to make sure the other head doesn't go and boof that progress for them.

Ayyo Porkens

, why you still voting clidd if clidd's outburst was towntelling to you to the point of aggressively coming at me for binning it as null and not something I care about?

Clidd’s outburst was scumtelling to me. Where did you get the impression Thatiana townread it? I was questioning why you found it null rather than

scummy

.

[AGar]

disagree. His outburst is based on how much he

does care

about the game. He's not saying "fuck it, yeet me a lose, this town is fucked," he's saying "Can we just yeet me now because I don't want to get yeeted in yeetlo?"

Was this supposed to convey that you found the outburst scumtelling?

[Porkens]

No, it was meant to convey that it seemed to me that he did GAF.

[Sou and Kanna]

-snip-
With all of that said, the fact that none of my detractors (or anyone else, for that matter) have commented on what should have seemed to be an unnatural defense of your slot has raised my hackles a bit.

alright, I'm gonna have to discuss with Datisi on this one, but he's currently not available. What does this last part mean?

@MS: S&K is the wrong tree for today. What are your thoughts on the rest of the thread?

this also suggests you are still townreading us, yes? why so?

@Agar; why does this kmd vote matter to you so much?

i think porkens is towntowntown?

~kanna

[Sou and Kanna]

I'm coming around on Bingle

Can you elaborate on this?

VOTE: Agar

~kanna

[Bingle]

-snip-
With all of that said, the fact that none of my detractors (or anyone else, for that matter) have commented on what should have seemed to be an unnatural defense of your slot has raised my hackles a bit.

alright, I'm gonna have to discuss with Datisi on this one, but he's currently not available. What does this last part mean?

@MS: S&K is the wrong tree for today. What are your thoughts on the rest of the thread?

this also suggests you are still townreading us, yes? why so?

@Agar; why does this kmd vote matter to you so much?

i think porkens is towntowntown?

~kanna

I am still townreading you, yes, for largely the same reasons. I haven't seen anything that should make me reevaluate, although I will admit my read on you has not been a priority.

The bit about my hackles is this: If someone finds me scummy, and I am doing something odd, I would expect the person who found me scummy to call me out on that odd behavior. None of them have. Precisely 0 people have talked about how I was defending you, and that seems strange to me.

[AGar]

No, it was meant to convey that it seemed to me that he did GAF.

Show me

on the doll where the music hurt you

where you've given any indication that you found clidd's outburst scummy.

@Agar; why does this kmd vote matter to you so much?

Oh, y'know, it's just a big part of this whole game we're playing, really.

Can you elaborate on this?

I think it's pretty self-evident.

[Kmd4390]

Lotsa folks high on their own stuff, huh?

KMD, where art thou to explain your Bingle vote more? I tire of patience.

Last couple MS posts have been :goodposting:, waiting to make sure the other head doesn't go and boof that progress for them.

Ayyo Porkens

, why you still voting clidd if clidd's outburst was towntelling to you to the point of aggressively coming at me for binning it as null and not something I care about?

Getting ready for funeral. Will go into detail after.

[Porkens]

In post 207, Porkens wrote:
No, it was meant to convey that it seemed to me that he did GAF.


Show me on the doll where the music hurt you where you've given any indication that you found clidd's outburst scummy.

I guess I didn't explicitly state it. But I sure thought about it!

[The Bulge]

I had an unexpectedly very stressful morning. I'm going to take a bit to calm down and will hopefully be present and level-headed later

[Michael Scott]

not at all. after i read agar/your posts, i changed my mind. i said it was fair. i reexplained because you said this

When you said, 'what i meant by "he tmi'd us town" is just me skipping steps that i think this inconsistency means this read is faked/he is scum if he is faking reads.' (194) it sounded like you were just doubling down on what you said before -- that town!Agar could not simultaneously scumread both you and Porkens, and that this "inconsistency" was the basis of your Agar scumread. You said that you liked my explanation (and Agar's explanation as well?) and that it was fair, but it came across like you still maintained your scumread of Agar for the same reason regardless of my explanation.

In any case, you are now voting for Agar. Is this vote on Agar purely because he said he is "coming around on Bingle" (187), or do you still believe that he was being inconsistent with his reads on you and Porkens?

suggesting you didn't understand my push.

No, I fully understood your push on Agar and explained exactly what it was about in 192. I'm also not convinced that town!you would jump to the conclusion that Agar TMI'd you as town solely because he scumread both you and Porkens, which is why I am still voting for you.


- Date Mike (Volxen)

[Michael Scott]

re bugs/bulge if you still want it: i still think they're a fine scumread placeholder. bugs has a decent chance of being scum and i'm watching their replacement, but they haven't done anything to amaze me.

Why do you think that Bugspray has a decent chance of being scum? The only time that your slot has talked about Bugspray at length was 23, and Datisi said that was a joke readslist that shouldn't be taken seriously. Aside from that you and Datisi both asked Bugspray about their reads (30, 40, 41), and Bugspray never answered either of you, but then shortly replaced out of the game in any case. Bugspray only had a total of four posts, and yet in 65 you said that you had a strong scumread on Bugspray. How were you able to get such a strong read on Bugspray from their limited content?

I also think that if Clidd is town, Bugspray's scumread on Clidd may be slightly town-indicative for the Bugspray slot (Clidd made this point before as well). I've only played one game with Clidd myself, and in that game Clidd was town and was, for the most part, universally townread and considered obvtown by most of the playerlist. I get the sense that when Clidd is town, he is normally townread by most players, and he has a reputation of usually being obvtown when he is town. Meaning that if Clidd is town then some of his posts, such as his first readslist in 33,

would seem townier to scum that it actually is

, because at that point in the game scum might have just assumed that Clidd would end up being a universal townread. So scum may have just assumed that Clidd would probably start to get townread over posts like 33 and considered it a "towny" post without really evaluating its contents. Bugspray was the first person to express a scumread on Clidd (38) directly in response to his readlist in 33. So if Bugspray is scum here, not only did they arguably take the more difficult stance of expressing a scumread rather than a nullread or townread on Clidd -- for one thing, this opens them up to accusations of OMGUS. Aside from that, would scum!Bugspray really want to start a push against town!Clidd without even first seeing how everyone else would respond to his readlist? Because if most people had reacted positively to Clidd's readlist post, then that just draws even more attention to Bugspray if they are the only slot to directly scumread Clidd over that post. Granted, that wasn't the case, as there were multiple people that were critical of Clidd's readlist post (including myself), but scum!Bugspray couldn't have known at the time that there would be mixed responses.

It's not a lot to go on since Bugspray didn't have a lot of content, but if Clidd is town I think it's at least somewhat more likely that town!Bugspray was expressing a genuine scumread on Clidd (this is also in part because I agreed with Bugspray that something about Clidd seemed "off" in his readslist post) as opposed to scum!Bugspray faking a scumread on town!Clidd and potentially opening themselves up to a lot more scrutiny in the event that Clidd quickly achieved "obvtown" status. This isn't to say that there aren't people who would try to push town!Clidd as scum, but I don't think that Bugspray is the type of player to make a push like that as scum.

In short, I think the "easy route" for scum!Bugspray (if Clidd is town) would be to assume that Clidd's readlist was a towny post and try to convince Clidd that they are town (again, especially since Bugspray had not yet seen how most people would react to Clidd's readlist), and the fact that Bugspray didn't react that way is at least somewhat town-indicative to me.


- Date Mike (Volxen)

[clidd]

Michael lock-town.

[Sou and Kanna]

not at all. after i read agar/your posts, i changed my mind. i said it was fair. i reexplained because you said this

When you said, 'what i meant by "he tmi'd us town" is just me skipping steps that i think this inconsistency means this read is faked/he is scum if he is faking reads.' (194) it sounded like you were just doubling down on what you said before -- that town!Agar could not simultaneously scumread both you and Porkens, and that this "inconsistency" was the basis of your Agar scumread. You said that you liked my explanation (and Agar's explanation as well?) and that it was fair, but it came across like you still maintained your scumread of Agar for the same reason regardless of my explanation.

In any case, you are now voting for Agar. Is this vote on Agar purely because he said he is "coming around on Bingle" (187), or do you still believe that he was being inconsistent with his reads on you and Porkens?

suggesting you didn't understand my push.

No, I fully understood your push on Agar and explained exactly what it was about in 192. I'm also not convinced that town!you would jump to the conclusion that Agar TMI'd you as town solely because he scumread both you and Porkens, which is why I am still voting for you.


- Date Mike (Volxen)

my point was just purely clarification, like i said before.

and no, it's not from *that*, i was just reading that latest page and found agar scummy for mechanical posting (there's always a take or two in his posts, and i disliked his reasking for an explanation from kmd for his vote, especially because it wasn't like kmd was ignoring him - it looked like busywork to me)

i was rereading some of his takes and just decided to poke him with a vote.

i know i haven't made my thought processes super clear, but i'd appreciate if you asked instead of jumping to conclusions like this cause it's just.... that's not what i'm saying at all?
and i don't know what to tell you, but i did believe that, and i am town....

like, was it a flawed push? maybe, and i can see how it's inconclusive, but my first reaction wasn't that

~kanna

[Kmd4390]

Sorry long day. Someone help me explain to a five year old why he has to lose three grandparents since the start of last year?

I'll try to catch up in the morning. Hate that I'm sucking at keeping up and just proving Agar right.

[Michael Scott]

Sorry for your loss KMD.


- Date Mike (Volxen)

[Sou and Kanna]

heart goes out to you, kmd <3

~

Why do you think that Bugspray has a decent chance of being scum? The only time that your slot has talked about Bugspray at length was 23, and Datisi said that was a joke readslist that shouldn't be taken seriously. Aside from that you and Datisi both asked Bugspray about their reads (30, 40, 41), and Bugspray never answered either of you, but then shortly replaced out of the game in any case. Bugspray only had a total of four posts, and yet in 65 you said that you had a strong scumread on Bugspray. How were you able to get such a strong read on Bugspray from their limited content?

mostly disliked these because they looked fake/disengaged:

I voted them BECAUSE of 23. Clumping two people together and making such a blanket read

also now a super tr for reconer because hes totally town

also kinda sr clidd because while its very tonally similar to the clidd~town i know im p sure this is a different one

i poked them with a vote and asked them to explain them, but then they rep'd out. datisi has told me bugs doesn't like scum and perhaps this is a bit of a dirty read, but it really looked to me like they repped out cause they couldn't answer questions/was off to a bad start as scum.

~

I think it's pretty self-evident.

but what did you like about it?

it's just a big part of this whole game we're playing, really.

also, you do know about kmd's activity patterns, so why did you ask them again?

~k

[Michael Scott]

i poked them with a vote and asked them to explain them, but then they rep'd out. datisi has told me bugs doesn't like scum and perhaps this is a bit of a dirty read, but it really looked to me like they repped out cause they couldn't answer questions/was off to a bad start as scum.

If Bugspray is scum then, yes, they did come under some early game scrutiny, especially if Clidd is town. But it was also very early in the game, and I doubt that scum!Bugspray would already assume that they were "caught scum". After all, you were the only one to actually vote for Bugspray. Bugspray was one of four people that Clidd had as a "bad impression" in 33, and at the time Clidd was pushing/voting KMD, not Bugspray. Even taking into account that scum!Bugspray might feel intimidated by the fact that town!Clidd had them as a scumread, it's a big stretch to conclude that that's the reason they are no longer in this game.

Also, your hydra partner, Datisi, modded a game in which Bugspray was town and replaced out after making only two posts:

Micro 952

Bugspray's ISO in the game

If I have time I may look at other games to see if there is any sort of pattern with respect to Bugspray's replace out's, but I started with that game because I noticed that Datisi was the mod. At the very least this proves that Bugspray has replaced out as town. Considering that game started in late June of this year (and Bugspray replaced out early in the game), Datisi must remember this.

If you are town then should this not give you (and Datisi in particular) some doubt about your scumread of Bugspray's slot? I'm surprised that Datisi would tell you that Bugspray doesn't like scum but yet Micro 952 never came up in your discussions (and if it did come up in your discussions, why have you mentioned the fact that Bugspray doesn't like scum, but not the fact that Datisi recently saw Bugspray replace out as town, since the replace out apparently factors into your scumread of Bugspray in this game)?


- Date Mike (Volxen)

[Michael Scott]

mostly disliked these because they looked fake/disengaged:

Putting aside the fact that Bugspray replaced out and never answered yours or Datisi's questions, what about Bugspray's 38 felt fake to you -- the townread on Reckoner, the scumread on Clidd, or both? I didn't agree with the reasoning behind the Reckoner townread (that Reckoner's criticism of Bugspray’s chess post was perhaps town-indicative), but if Bugspray is town then I can completely see where they were coming from with respect to their scumread on Clidd in that post. Clidd did "clump" Bugspray and Agar together in 33 by scumreading both of them for the exact same reason, and it would make sense for town!Bugspray to call Clidd out on the fact that he wasn't attempting to make any sort of distinction between Bugspray and Agar.

I explained in a previous post why I think that scum!Bugspray would be more likely to townread town!Clidd over 33 rather than scumread him over it. But beyond that, I don't think it would be easy for scum!Bugspray to fake a thought process like

"also kinda sr clidd because while its very tonally similar to the clidd~town i know im p sure this is a different one".

Bugspray is basically admitting here that they think that Clidd's tone is similar to the town!Clidd that they are used to, but at the same time, Clidd somehow feels "off" to them despite the tone being "right". That gives me the impression that Bugspray was

genuinely

considering what Clidd was saying in 33 and the scumread of Clidd came as a result of them feeling that something was "off" about Clidd, as opposed to this being scum!Bugspray just giving Clidd an OMGUS scumread. If Bugspray were scum, wouldn't it be more natural for them to simply say that Clidd's tone here was different from the tone of town!Clidd that they are used to, and offer that as the reasoning behind the scumread?

It just doesn't seem likely to me that if scum!Bugspray has decided on faking a scumread on town!Clidd, that the first thing that would come to mind would be to mention that Clidd's tone was towny (which weakens the case for scum!Clidd), only to then basically say "but I still think he's scum anyways because he's different for reason's I can't explain despite the towny tone". I think it's more likely that Bugspray was just town, and they felt that something was "off" about Clidd but they didn't really know how to express what exactly it was that was "off".


- Date Mike (Volxen)

[Kmd4390]

Agar,

I originally voted Bingle on page 1 because they seemed scared to be associated with the clidd wagon. They voted elsewhere and didn't acknowledge the "wagon". Granted it's two votes, but those were the only two posts of the game which forces the next poster to ask do I vote with the wagon? Do I vote someone on the wagon? The exception is if Bingle came in with a joke vote that was pre-planned before game start. I don't see that in the Porkens vote, which Bingle abandons to OMGUS me.

Bingles next couple of posts just feel like posts for the sake of posts. The callout of the chess game, non-read on Porkens, info on who Hydra pairs are, and pagetop comment to the Mod do nothing for the game. It's common knowledge that a chess game in a mafia game thread just doesn't belong. We know nothing on where Bingle actually stands on Porkens yet the name has been brought up a few times. I don't know, it just feels like Bingle is trying to give us a lot of words without rocking any boats.

Next, Bingle gives some scum reads but it's just the wagon and the guy voting Bingle. So... I really don't see anything more than surface level stuff here. It's also scum reads on about half the game. If a wagon pops up, Bingle really hasn't given us ANY he'd be unwilling to join except maybe clidd.

This caught my eye too:

As far as the wagon on me, I'm not particularly worried, nor will it influence the way I play the game.

It was unprompted so it seems like feeling the need to acknowledge the wagon and it seems like a downplayed way to say "I don't feel any pressure". It just feels unneeded.