Open 789: Two-Fold 2d3 [Game Over]

[dramonic]

Because I don't want to eliminate him, but if you guys are going to force him to claim you should go through with it instead of backing out after a claim.

Unfortunately I only have the 1 vote.

[Menalque]

@A50 i think you’re playing this game in a very similar way to how you played Anuket and correspondingly in a dissimilar way to how you played jk9++

[Almost50]

@Menalque: You mean in the sense that I am typing in English??

But seriously, that's an interesting take. Tell me more. What similarities do you see?

[dramonic]

What does that entail, for those of us who don't care to metadive?

[Dannflor]

it means A50 is closer to Menalque's experience of his scum-game rather than his town-game

[Menalque]

@Menalque: You mean in the sense that I am typing in English??

But seriously, that's an interesting take. Tell me more. What similarities do you see?

You seem very checked out from the game and uninterested in posting or solving people’s alignments. I know you’ve given reasons for this, but you also gave reasons for that in Anuket which turned out to just be a cover for not solving because you were scum. So why should I believe the reasons you’re giving this game for not having an interest or trying?

[Menalque]

Also, yeah, what Dann said

[dramonic]

Huh, thanks.
This seems like a real scum hunting perspective to me. I think he believes what he's saying, I don't agree with the tells he's using. If he's trying to hide his partner in that list, I don't see it.
The dramonic read is the worst of the bunch imo and there's nothing like an attempt to understand him in that read. Which could be scum.

You do realize the entire readlist is just people voting him are null to scum, people not voting him are town

[dramonic]

Teacher notable exception because teacher is teacher

[teacher]

I gave intent on him, so that theory still holds I believe.

[Almost50]

@Menalque: You mean in the sense that I am typing in English??

But seriously, that's an interesting take. Tell me more. What similarities do you see?

You seem very checked out from the game and uninterested in posting or solving people’s alignments. I know you’ve given reasons for this, but you also gave reasons for that in Anuket which turned out to just be a cover for not solving because you were scum. So why should I believe the reasons you’re giving this game for not having an interest or trying?

You don't have to believe anything. You have your vote to use on me if you think I am scum.

And good of you to bring Anuket, so I can explain my earlier post about your play to everyone else:

In Anuket; Menalque threw everything including the kitchen sink on Snow to be scum ans Mae to be town. Mae was eliminated and flipped scum, and we confirmed Snow as town (special mechanics); setting Menalque for an almost certain miselimination.

Earlier, I was town with Menalque in another game, and when it came down to him to decide between me and S_S (the remaining scum) he picked me despite both skitter (flipped Town Vig) and Ank (flipped Town JK) both having explicitly placed me at the very top of their reads (both showing much confidence I was town). Ank even crumbed she had jailed me on N1, but Menalque insisted she had targeted Bingle and ignored both hers and skitter's confident reads on me.

So.. that's what 1161 was all about. Anuket had not been over yet by then so I couldn't explicitly talk about it, but I guess the hint was clear enough for him to get what I was talking about.

Now let me address my disengagement in general:

I do NOT have a meta of being disengaged as a certain alignment

. There are multiple elements that can decide whether I'm checked out or not, and alignment isn't one of them. It is usually the case that when I am not active in a game that I am also inactive in all games I play at the same time. This is not a rule but is the dominant case. You can check for yourself. Go see what games have been going on at the same time I was playing Anuket and see if I was more active. Go check the games I was playing simultaneously with JK9++ and see if I was less active. It's a MOOD thing, not an alignment thing.

[Almost50]

But still, you are welcome to vote/push me and see if you can get anything out of it. At least you have a legitimate reason to suspect me this time (unlike in JK9++)

[Jake The Wolfie]

I gave intent on him, so that theory still holds I believe.

"Dr. Mafia, what exactly does giving intent hold here?"

[teacher]

I gave intent on him, so that theory still holds I believe.

"Dr. Mafia, what exactly does giving intent hold here?"

Read the post above mine.

[Menalque]

In Anuket; Menalque threw everything including the kitchen sink on Snow to be scum ans Mae to be town. Mae was eliminated and flipped scum, and we confirmed Snow as town (special mechanics); setting Menalque for an almost certain miselimination.

Spoiler: Mostly OOG stuff between A50 and I

This is like... not at all what happened? You’re right that that’s what people /perceived/ as happening, but it wasn’t. Here are some posts where I’m talking about mohab/mae (scum) and snow (town)

Spoiler:

Menalque, independently of Snowblaze, what is your actual read on Mohab?

I probably would have compromised there if we needed majority lynch

Her ISO is notably different from partition but I’m not convinced that means she’s scum. I still think the dumbtelling means probably town but like, I wouldn’t be shocked if it didn’t. Mostly she feels like a counterwagon to snow after the RCE counter didn’t take off, which is compounded by a number of scummy slots avoiding getting on her while not necessarily calling her town

S_S, chemist, RCE

I’d like it if some combination of you could vote snowblaze at this point to ensure she’s guillotined today

Why Snowblaze over Mohab?

I still think the original reasons for scumreading her are sound: the lack of scumhunting through the day, posts like 110 and 290 are overexplainy in a scummy way I think — there’s no need to say that mohab is scummy but not enough for a vote that early in the game and feeling like you need that level of justification is more likely to come from a new scumplayer I think. Same thing in 290, the reasons are very weak and probably didn’t need to be provided and I struggle to see why town would think it’s necessary to give them while making that vote.

Holden’s point is still valid about how 330 was an odd phrasing for why she was unvoting fredrick although her explanation in 530 isn’t unreasonable. However, speaking of 530, she has referred a couple of times to “not really having many scumreads” which I think is scummy (and more so from newbscum tbh) as I think it can be hard to come up with a convincing fake scumread when you’re scum and so it can be easier to just avoid that by saying “ahh everyone is just kinda town :/“

Her reads in 415 have an IIoA vibe to them where she’s just sort of describing what slots are like or what people have done rather than trying to figure out their alignments, and her 4 recent walls have nothing that I don’t think could be faked by scum in them and I see them as very out of sync with my own reads and impressions of those slots. They also just seem disjointed as a whole — like my pick for the scumteam rn is probably (snow, raya, eevee) and I think that makes a lot of sense given how they’ve reacted to one another and to the gamestate, which is the final bit of why I think snow is scum — the wagon on her came up quite naturally I’d say, but has been resisted throughout (it’s part of my scumreads on eevee and raya that I think they were both doing this) but no-one has really been wanting to towncase snow, they’ve just avoided voting for her or argued for voting elsewhere.

And then mohab feels like a soft target (given the dumbtelling and also the lack of posting) who scum are picking as their counterwagon to keep it off snow. I don’t feel strongly enough that snow is scum and that mohab isn’t to want to brute force her lynch

(which is something I’m trying to do less anyway, as you may have noted in JK9++ when I didn’t try to force lilith through when her wagon was competing with yours). I wouldn’t be shocked if mohab flipped scum, but it feels much more like she’s the attempt to keep the guillotine off snow after doing the same with RCE failed, and I think there is a lot of pressure on scum to try to ensure that their team don’t get guillotined D1.

Also, I’m weirdly not overly concerned about getting to flip scum today in that if mohab flips town I think snow is very, very probably scum, and there’s nothing scum can do to stop me coming after her tomorrow due to the first two nights being skipped. Plus if I’m right then we get two more tries at it where hitting on either is GG and I think I have a smallish pool for who I think make sense as partners for snow which will be significantly smaller if she reds and scum have to confirm five town

You also just seem.. like very upset about the fact I misguillotined you in JK9++, and seem to be using that as “evidence” for your belief that I value my own reads over everyone/anyone else’s. Like, dude, the fact that ~on that particular occasion~ I didn’t outsource my own read and stuck with my gut and was wrong ~doesn’t invalidate all the other times in multiple games where I’ve followed someone else’s reads over my own~. Literally, literally, that is what I’m doing in this game by not demanding hiraki. I am trusting dann that his hiraki read is good and that hiraki is not scum, or at least not in my pool for today. That doesn’t mean I townread him, but I have, you may have noticed, stopped pushing him.

And that’s why I think it’s sort of vaguely ludicrous that you’re fronting that you understand me as a player or have some sort of deep insight into my game? I like you oog, I think you’re often p funny, and I think you can be a strong player when you want to be. But I think the idea that you like ~get~ my game to the point that you should and or can give me feedback on it is wrong and I object to it on like an overall level.

Not really that game related I guess but it was irritating me.


**

As for your meta — idk if I wanna meta deep dive you to confirm that. Certainly in my recent memory, you’ve been more consistently engaged as town. I don’t necessarily want you dead today, but I do want everyone aware of the fact that if like 1-2 people in my scumpool flip town and I die, that you should be looked at very closely, especially if you still haven’t actually done anything.

P.s. as a final point, I think you also misread me at one point in jk9++ towards the end/were suggesting I was scum? I could be off on that. But if you were then the fact that I had the chops to get you flipped despite Blake and skitt TRing you is like immaterial to how good my reads are on you and vice versa.

This is probably the only bit in there that interesting or relevant to what’s happening this game:

“As for your meta — idk if I wanna meta deep dive you to confirm that. Certainly in my recent memory, you’ve been more consistently engaged as town. I don’t necessarily want you dead today, but I do want everyone aware of the fact that if like 1-2 people in my scumpool flip town and I die, that you should be looked at very closely, especially if you still haven’t actually done anything.”

[Menalque]

Ffs

@mod could you please fix the spoiler tags idk how I fucked that up

[Menalque]

I think my scumpool is now

(Mara, dunn, A50, testa) ~(jake > hiraki) ~~(PP > gamma/dram) ---- (Bell > teacher > dann > me)

[Almost50]

I think you also misread me at one point in jk9++ towards the end/were suggesting I was scum?

?? You were the claimed Tracker in an open setup with no CC. How would I have suggested you were scum? I was asserting it was between Bingle and S_S

[Menalque]

I thought I claimed because you were suggesting I was scum and it pissed me off and I couldn’t be bothered to defend myself by just going through how incredibly obvtown I was?

[Menalque]

Oh wait, no, it was PP wasn’t it

I thought you were scummy for wanting bingle. Sorry, I mixed that up

[Almost50]

Are going to have the post-game discussion of that game in here? I am sorry I gave you an advice. I retract that post. If I could I would have deleted it. Please treat it as non-existent.

[Menalque]

Okay, sorry if I’m being rude in my reaction or unpleasant

[Almost50]

Okay, sorry if I’m being rude in my reaction or unpleasant

No no. You weren't rude. I just don't think this discussion is becoming way off topic form this thread.

[Almost50]

I just think this discussion is becoming way off topic form this thread. (rephrased what I said and left the "don't" incidentally)

[Bell]

I don't think you're clear, but I also don't think you're the worst offender, and there are better places for me to be placing my focus. At the very least, I no longer think that your early position in the Mena/Hiraki discussion was scummy.

Well, who are you looking at?

Huh, thanks.
This seems like a real scum hunting perspective to me. I think he believes what he's saying, I don't agree with the tells he's using. If he's trying to hide his partner in that list, I don't see it.
The dramonic read is the worst of the bunch imo and there's nothing like an attempt to understand him in that read. Which could be scum.

You do realize the entire readlist is just people voting him are null to scum, people not voting him are town

I didn't unvote him till after he posted his barely efforty effort post. But yes, I realized this. Though, I feel like lots of players end up with reads lists where everyone giving them a hard time is scum and everyone who isn't, is town.