Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

[clidd]

Historically speaking, we don't have very pleasant records of past games. Almost always something bad happens.

Searching for a replacement for Menalque.

This is a curse..

[Isis]

And I'm not sure if Menalque is just not in the mood or if he's ignoring me.

Historically speaking, we don't have very pleasant records of past games. Almost always something bad happens.

Pedit: I think our interaction is tvt.

yeah clidd seems reeally scummy the first two pages
I don't think I've ever called an interaction I'm participating in TvT, it's kind of stilted to use the XvY paradigm to view yourself, it seems like it's something you post to incept for other people to think of you as a T

[Isis]

I only play in playerlists with loads of good players to get carried to victories and to keep my sweet, sweet win rate % high so I can continue to fool people into thinking I know what I'm doing muahahaha

(am I becoming isis)

I care very little about my winrate. I try to win each game but avoid tracking my winrate and don't feel bad about knowing in the aggregate that it is probably poor
i have queueing behavior that very frequently puts me in games with fun-to-play-with-players, which overlaps a lot with strong players
not sure why Menalque posted this

[Isis]

yeah cult games are awful never do that

[Isis]

Farren, do you have any reads yet?

Leaning Town on clidd and you. Gun to my head, I'd say Dunnstral and GuiltyLion for scum - but my D1 read quality tends to be utter garbage. At least in my last game, the scum were all hiding in the middle of my thoughts by the time D1 came to a close. People who were being active, but not *really* active - people who were participating, but not shining. Probably means I should be looking more at ... Gamma Emerald, Ydrasse, Morning Tweet. And I'm forgetting someone ... Pine. I'd put Pine in the bottom bucket. And I know why I'm doing that, and I hate it.

So: let Dunnstral and GuiltyLion percolate for the time being, poke them from time to time, work on the middle three. Wait for Pine to become more present.

VOTE: Morning Tweet

Going off of memory, Morning Tweet, you've made less of an impression on me than Gamma and Ydrasse, despite you scumreading me. Is that a me thing or a you thing, do you think?

Not voting Pine here makes sense, not voting ConvictedTiger here serves some kind of agenda that I'd have to know the scumteam to understand.

I guess this is a Pine game so I guess I'll start collating

Personally, my town-lock on him is basically due to the depth of thought that he had about my meta, which sounded to me as extremely genuine.

how do you think scum!Menalque would approach your slot, his thoughts about your meta have nothing to do with his alignment. this is a bs reason for a townread and I especially don't like that it comes right after he softened up on you

VOTE: clidd

yarrr
I kind of feel like the "i'm going to be chill this game" declaration is NAI because he probably thought about it before his role PM was opened, but I'm scumreading clidd off his play. I think he interacted with Mena in the way that would be agreeable to Mena and it worked, but now the slot is replaced, replacements suck for mafia, sad times.

I don't think you're scum, but the way you seem to be reacting to me right now seems off in my opinion.

This is getting into openwolf territory

Clidd I believe has a higher chance of being town from the way he's responding to Mena/GL -- I'm near certain he's genuinely frustrated (177), his reads remind me of previous games with him..

Gamma could you post "scum can experience genuine frustration" pls

FWIW i do like how you're using your vote to sort me rather than vote Dunn or GL (who hadn't had recent posts at the time) + you scumread them but feel scum is more likely to be someone you're missing in the middle. Does seem to imply you're actually trying to vote who has the highest chance of being scum, if that makes sense.

Maybe MT's take on that vote is more accurate, experiencing it in realtime instead of catchup. Possibly

If nothing else, that Rising Star badge tells me you're more likely to fall towards the skilled end of things

Hoooo boy are you about to be disappointed

Well, yeah :/

Morning is interpreting my behavior correctly.

So she is very good at reading me or has information about my alignment (scum). But I am more inclined to the town side, considering that her posts in general are giving me a good feeling by tone (no, I will not do a dissertation to explain why).

There's just this repeated theme of clidd posting things that seem like poor sketches town thought patterns that are actually unlikely for me to think in that way as town.
This post is actually a logical failing that may be scum indicative. MT posted analysis of clidd's behavior, not just a summary of clidd's alignment; he's conflating the two.

If you give me 3x+4=28, and I say "it's eight", you can say Isis knows prealgebra, or she has an answer key. If I say
3x+4-4=28-4
3x=24
3x/3=24/3
x=8
You don't say "Isis either knows prealgebra or has an answer key". It's demonstrated I know prealgebra whether or not I have an answer key.
If clidd read Tweet's reasoning and the analysis was sound he should be able to say Tweet is good at reading him, unqualified. He's sprinkling "unless they're scum" into his posting as one often does as scum and has managed to do it gratuitously here.

[Isis]

VOTE: clidd

[Ydrasse]

oh goodness a lot has happened here since i last visited. uh.

hi isis and welcome!

[Isis]

Ydrasse can you read Morning Tweet for me I don't think I can

[Ydrasse]

i think that morning tweet is town!

[clidd]

I don't think I see the exact reason, but it struck me as "shrinking facts to fit theories" than "shrinking theories to fit facts".

I imagine it must make sense from the angle you are looking at, but as I said, the way I am playing tends to make players who have played with me see me much more easily as scum than town. (Morning is an exception).

Another point is that I see that you are town, just like Menalque. So I know that none of this was formulated in bad faith, but even so, I don't know if I have the energy to rationally explain why it is wrong, as I would have to elucidate some topics in parallel (and as I also mentioned, I want to play a chill game).

So what I can say is: reevaluate.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ydrasse]

the reason for that townread in particular is that i think her open-mindedness this game thus far feels townier than not? like, i don't think she's hedging when she says she doesn't know something and isn't looking for someone to supply her the answers so much as wanting to collaborate with everyone if that makes sense?

[clidd]

I don't think I can lessen the paranoia towards myself, so I will try to visualize some PoE to be useful in some way.

[clidd]

So:

1. I still want to talk with Dunn (and Pine) when they got back. I need to check something.

2. I plan to comment on your posts later (Farren), but you're giving me a good impression so far.

3. And in relation to Lion, I need to take a better look inside his pov. He's giving me mix impressions (but confusion is towny in his context).

Which brings me to my agenda ^

[Ydrasse]

oh! in that case i think i will hold my question for now. :>

[clidd]

I kind of see Lion coming back commenting on a set of my posts.

But already anticipating: I will evade these future posts. I want to talk with other people at the moment.

[Isis]

Yeah I'm pretty gungho clidd. If you're town finding the scum for me instead of defending yourself might be better

[clidd]

I'll try, Miss Isis.

[clidd]

[Isis]

I'm pretty sure Menalque got banned for lashing out at a player who replaced into his game while blacklisted ontop of nasty posts from the original game that generated the grudge. Both completed games. The mods take a long time to settle on stuff.

Six week signup ban would have been better than two week mafia ban, it kind of sucks to punish the bystanders in games that get their integrity disrupted.

[Isis]

I'm butthurt I'm not replacing into a different slot and able to ask Mena about the thing he posted about me D:

[Morning Tweet]

Hehe, looks like my task today might end up being sorting clidd and then desperately trying to convince everyone he's town, or perhaps instead i'll end up agreeing.

I think town clidd feels a desire to reciprocate townreads. The playing relaxed comment in NAI. Let's see, what else.. I think his read on Mena seems stretchy or contrived because of the first reason.

Morning is interpreting my behavior correctly.

So she is very good at reading me or has information about my alignment (scum). But I am more inclined to the town side, considering that her posts in general are giving me a good feeling by tone (no, I will not do a dissertation to explain why).

There's just this repeated theme of clidd posting things that seem like poor sketches town thought patterns that are actually unlikely for me to think in that way as town.
This post is actually a logical failing that may be scum indicative. MT posted analysis of clidd's behavior, not just a summary of clidd's alignment; he's conflating the two.

If you give me 3x+4=28, and I say "it's eight", you can say Isis knows prealgebra, or she has an answer key. If I say
3x+4-4=28-4
3x=24
3x/3=24/3
x=8
You don't say "Isis either knows prealgebra or has an answer key". It's demonstrated I know prealgebra whether or not I have an answer key.
If clidd read Tweet's reasoning and the analysis was sound he should be able to say Tweet is good at reading him, unqualified. He's sprinkling "unless they're scum" into his posting as one often does as scum and has managed to do it gratuitously here.

You theorize that the "unless they're scum" comment is basically a scum habit he didn't think too much about -- since if the intent of 249 was "She analyzed my behaviour correctly", then it makes no sense to attach a "well it's not correct if she's scum though" line. However, I think from the way he words the second part of 249, "she either reads me good or is scum", it implies he isn't focused on the way I got there. He just knows I am correct.

So more or less, despite me writing out an attempted solution to the problem:

This is somewhat of a stretch, i feel clidd may possibly just wants Mena to be town, so he began with that conclusion and imagined what town!Mena's mindset is and then applied it. Trying to explain townreads is like that sometimes. i am finding the lack of backing down on this read despite GL contesting it to be somewhat towny. I think that clidd truly believes in the tell, strongly, and doesn't get why GL isn't getting it. Perhaps scum!clidd backs down, or at least makes the read weaker?

After thinking for a while (on relax mode on), I just came to my first serious read: Menalque obvtown.

Alternatively, scum!clidd sees that Mena townreads him, so he mega townbins Mena just so he can pocket someone who townreads him back. Perhaps this is what GL sees. I'll keep thinking

I believe clidd has focused on just the answer:

Clidd I believe has a higher chance of being town from the way he's responding to Mena/GL -- I'm near certain he's genuinely frustrated (177), his reads remind me of previous games with him..

He words it like I have "interpreted him correctly", but i think that largely regardless of the reasoning, he would have said that as long as I gave him a townread. So I think you're in the right vein of reasoning here, but I am yet unsure if that means he is scum.

[Isis]

He words it like I have "interpreted him correctly", but

I'm hearing "he scumposted but imagine if he had townposted instead!"

As for reciprocating townreads, scum are naturally incentivized to reciprocate townreads so it's NAI behavior at best (to be fair, maybe also NAI behavior at worst, for him.)

[Isis]

Tweet what page of the game have you started reading clidd's post with a hope and skew to find town

Cause I feel like it is some page

[Morning Tweet]

He words it like I have "interpreted him correctly", but

I'm hearing "he scumposted but imagine if he had townposted instead!"

As for reciprocating townreads, scum are naturally incentivized to reciprocate townreads so it's NAI behavior at best (to be fair, maybe also NAI behavior at worst, for him.)

I'm saying the intent behind that post doesnt seem like "Morning knows me well and laid it out exactly" as much as "Yup Morning is right I'm town so shes good unless shes scum". He may have sorta made it sound like the former in his first line but the second betrays what he is actually thinking

its not a great look but it is conceivable to me that he'd do it as town too, especially if he were to currently be experiencing frustration due to being scumread. I guess perhaps he can be scum latching onto my read and just worded it sloppily. but i can still see viably see my interpretation

reciprocating is NAI imo cause clidd does it a lot and also I personally feel the urge to do it just as much as town

[Morning Tweet]

Tweet what page of the game have you started reading clidd's post with a hope and skew to find town

Cause I feel like it is some page

You mean where did my townread start, or are u implying i feel some need to defend clidd so i searched thru somewhere to spin up a townread?

I more or less think the points brought up against clidd so far have been faulty (the relaxed thing and now his wording of my read on him) -- and i cannot help but townlean his frustration due to the scumreads these brought on. That's probably the best i can explain it at the moment.

I do not know yet if i would go to the end of the world to defend him but i may as well speak about the case thus far and see where we go from there