Mini Normal 2157 | Over

[Raya36]

Official Vote Count 3.07

Echinocereus rigidissimus rubrispinus "Rainbow Hedgehog Cactus"

---

Elimination

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to eliminate someone.

Andresvmb

(2): Alduskkel, NoPowerOverMe

Testarossa

(2): VP Baltar, DkKoba

Alduskkel

(3): Andresvmb, Iconeum, Testarossa

Not Voting

(2): hellbooks, Datisi

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-08-24 22:40:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[VP Baltar]

Datisi (and Aldus I guess) - thoughts on a (Tess, Ico, Andres) grouping?

Andres is probably my least certain in that group. But as I said before, there's obv been scum theater somewhere this game because nothing fits perfectly

[Alduskkel]

so testa/aldu/andres is not possible in your eyes?

i think what i have is a solid solve and makes sense.

...Your solve is that me and Andres are hardbussing Day 3 and we helped dogpile Testa on Day 1?

I don't see any question marks from you

ehh, there is a fine line between "chaotic town who isn't trying to explain their thought process because they don't care how they look but their logic makes sense to them" vs "scum who is plain bullshitting out of their ass" and i don't know why i have such a strong feeling that npom is in the first category rather than the second but i do

Datisi... why are you like this... you're falling for his confusion fu.

oh i see why you don't think it's aldus + npow there

remember in 2119 when mena was scum and made that post saying "i don't want micc today i want pine" (or was it the other way around? doesn't matter) and immediately i snapped like "oh god both micc and pine are town aren't they"

like that's the exact gut reaction i had when reading that post of aldus

"oh god both bob and npom are town aren't they"

but something something anecdotal evidence game difficult etc etc

I have no idea how to argue with this when it's just gut. I mean, I've given out my reasoning for both Bob!town and NPOM!scum. Is my reasoning bad or something?

The fact that you keep coming back to 2161 makes me think it's a major reason you scumread me but you yourself seem to realize that that's a really shaky foundation.

pedit: Pretty sure Ico is town.

[VP Baltar]

Actually, NPOM might fit pretty well in that grouping. He's also been qualifying his vote. "If so and so votes Tess, I will...."

"I'll bus if I have to...."

[Datisi]

@aldus, ok i just ctrl+f "bob" in your iso and the only reasons for bob!town you gave on day two was "if bob is scum he's being bussed that don't make sense?" (2083) and whatever 2161 is supposed to mean

can you rehash your reasons for bob/npom reads? on day two? because yeah i'm feeling your reasoning was bad "on purpose"

@baltar, i dunno......... i'm not...... scumreading ico..... i get i'm wrong somewhere and i hate it
lemme take a look hold on

[VP Baltar]

@baltar, i dunno......... i'm not...... scumreading ico..... i get i'm wrong somewhere and i hate it
lemme take a look hold on

I don't have a particularly strong scum read there either. It's more just me pulling back trying to look for combinations that fit. NPOM is a reasonable sub there the more I think about it.

That being said, you have the most interaction with Ico and I trust you. Just don't want a pocketing thing to cost us the game because most people are trusting your vouch for Ico.

[DkKoba]

Oh good datisi is here i was literally about to get a prod for both them and hellbooks

[Alduskkel]

@datisi can u also ctrl+f "snow" and "SB"

[Datisi]

just did, some weak defence of her on day one, i don't think it invalidates my point

@koba, yeah i'm here, you can start on that obvtown case

[Alduskkel]

honestly my approach to NPOM is p much "ignore all the weird shit and just look at where his votes go"

if I actually tried to analyze his thought processes I'd go mad

pedit: how was my reasoning bad, again?

[Alduskkel]

Page 120: Some persuasive analysis from VPB and Andres about Testarossa actually. Now I'm see-sawing back to Testarosscum a bit lol. Though, I'd be interested in knowing who they'd pick for Testa's scumpartners + their analysis of Testa's wagon.

I was gonna wait until I had more but I saw VPB post so now I want to know how he'd answer the above

VPB did u miss this

[Datisi]

That being said, you have the most interaction with Ico and I trust you. Just don't want a pocketing thing to cost us the game because most people are trusting your vouch for Ico.

:////

i know. ugh. i know. nO PrEsSuRe. i looked at tess on d2 and it's like... you're saying things that are true but i just don't know how much they make tess scum. like in a way i can relate to the feeling of "everyone is pushing for bob and it's obvious he needs to flip but i really don't believe in this flip"

[Alduskkel]

1. I don't see how I could have defused the snow wagon when my read was based off of "this reminds me of my own town play" ... when I often get eliminated as town for similar reasons that SB was scumread for at the time. I didn't think I could convince people my SB townread was right by just defending her so I thought it'd be better to work towards eliminating players I thought were scum.

@Datisi I also think this is relevant.

[VP Baltar]

Page 120: Some persuasive analysis from VPB and Andres about Testarossa actually. Now I'm see-sawing back to Testarosscum a bit lol. Though, I'd be interested in knowing who they'd pick for Testa's scumpartners + their analysis of Testa's wagon.

I was gonna wait until I had more but I saw VPB post so now I want to know how he'd answer the above

VPB did u miss this

See my above post for who I think could be her partners rn.

I'm on my phone atm and about to start my work day, so not in a position to go vote by vote looking at her wagon. I can do that later.

I do think it's notable she hasn't received real pressure since D1 except from Koba

[Datisi]

honestly my approach to NPOM is p much "ignore all the weird shit and just look at where his votes go"

if I actually tried to analyze his thought processes I'd go mad

pedit: how was my reasoning bad, again?

ok, talk to me about what you thought of his votes

it's not necessarily "bad", it's just... weaksauce? doesn't feel like you believe in it? convenient? i dunno.

[VP Baltar]

That being said, you have the most interaction with Ico and I trust you. Just don't want a pocketing thing to cost us the game because most people are trusting your vouch for Ico.

:////

i know. ugh. i know. nO PrEsSuRe. i looked at tess on d2 and it's like... you're saying things that are true but i just don't know how much they make tess scum. like in a way i can relate to the feeling of "everyone is pushing for bob and it's obvious he needs to flip but i really don't believe in this flip"

Idk. That's a very scummy mindset though isn't it? Scum are the ones that benefit from letting a town elim go through with no real counter. I'm not saying I would expect Tess to White Knight Bob, but to not push an alternative you think was better? I have hard time getting into that mindset from a town perspective

[Datisi]

but to not push an alternative you think was better? I have hard time getting into that mindset from a town perspective

i mean... :/

Spoiler: :/

@Datisi, you see what is happening though right? Bob could easily tie it by voting his counterwagon, leaving the decision in the hands of Testarossa. If you think Bob is the better flip, I would consider Unvoting and waiting for Bob to answer whatever questions you posed.

sigh, i hate both of these wagons.

something in me is still saying bob is town. the only reason why i would consider voting him is "info" - either i'm wrong about it or to confirm that the town is probably going very wrong.

npom is like... probably town, but holy shit look at his posts. i think he either gets pushed later on or ends up being swayed into voting town.

both these wagons are town and i hate it.

UNVOTE:

part of me wants to try to save bob because i don't think it's scum. the other part understands enough of the town thinks he's scum that he's gonna be a distraction until he's dead. this is stupid.

of course i could also be wrong on bob. this game...

VOTE: aldus

how long is it gonna be until i chicken out because i don't have the courage to push another wagon through against consensus??? let's find out!!!

UNVOTE:

i'm chickening out

i don't want baltar to yell at me

if that intent is serious (because you never know with koba xD kek) here's to me being wrong and waking up to a scumflip

[VP Baltar]

You still voted people though. It's not really the same imo. You weren't avoiding being on a wagon at all

[VP Baltar]

Case in point, I credit you with the janko wagon. Didn't work out, but you fought a snow wagon with something else

[VP Baltar]

Plus, Tess D2 goes from bloodlust for Billy to like a null read on him. That also fits with this theory that scum rolecopped Billy N1

[Alduskkel]

@Datisi:
NPOM did a weak sheep onto the Testa wagon
NPOM wasn't on janko's wagon at the end of the day but was in support of it earlier
NPOM's hammer on Bob was trash
NPOM tried to pass off you/VPB as S/S
NPOM has, multiple times, just voted along with you or Koba because of "trusting them" but has ALSO pushed both of you as scum at one point or another.

[Datisi]

something is telling me "that hammer on bob was absolute trash but it's town trash" and uuuuugh

[Datisi]

like bob was always flipping there??? why does npom hammer it like that???? like i've seen town hammer like that so many times???????

my head hurts

[Alduskkel]

WHY IS IT TOWN TRASH AGH

[Datisi]

WHY DOES SCUM DO IT THERE WHEN ALREADY UNDER UNCERTAINTY

LIKE THIS FEELS LIKE "SCUM PUSHING ANTI-TOWN TOWNIES" AAAAAAA