Newbie 2025 | Lilies | Game Over

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Still looking into ISOs. As of right now, I am town-reading Redados, but I'm not done with it yet.

[shellyc]

Still looking into ISOs. As of right now, I am town-reading Redados, but I'm not done with it yet.

Any reasoning behind it? What posts do you see that display a townie mindset?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Still looking into ISOs. As of right now, I am town-reading Redados, but I'm not done with it yet.

Any reasoning behind it? What posts do you see that display a townie mindset?

It is his willingness to admit that he made a mistake.

[shellyc]

Still looking into ISOs. As of right now, I am town-reading Redados, but I'm not done with it yet.

Any reasoning behind it? What posts do you see that display a townie mindset?

It is his willingness to admit that he made a mistake.

Can't scum admit that they made a mistake? Town would push their suspect and would backtrack if they think their target is town, but won't scum do the same? Explain a little more clearly.

[Redados]

I would be fine limming rocknil or Frederick A Campbell, but I would rather lim Shelly. I'm not sure I could see myself limming a different player at this point.

Make your case on me. I will defend myself, because I am a townie. I want to hear your case on me.

To me, this request isn't helpful. If/when people scumread me, I won't jump down their throats to hear all of their points so that I can go through them point by point and PROVE that I'm not scum. That isn't feasible/helpful.

Again,

my preference when I'm being scumread is to keep posting, because that's how I prove that I am town.

Your case is "Oh shelly is scum because they are playing so similar to last game" which is faulty meta analysis. I can play like scum when I'm town because you've never seen a town game from me.

That may have been my initial read, but it is developing (or else I am tunneling). You have a couple of anti-town tendencies. For example, you are quite defensive. You say this is not AI. We can go back and forth whether or not it is AI, but it is anti-town. Another example is that you yell at people for scumslipping. That is also not super helpful. Maybe it could be helpful, but not in the way that you go about it. To get back to the meta read, you did this last game and you were scum.

You say that my case on you is that you are playing similar to last game and you were scum. My actual "case" on you (which is less of a case and more of a scumread) is that you are playing in a similar, anti-town way to last game and you were scum last game.

Still looking into ISOs. As of right now, I am town-reading Redados, but I'm not done with it yet.

Any reasoning behind it? What posts do you see that display a townie mindset?

It is his willingness to admit that he made a mistake.

Can't scum admit that they made a mistake? Town would push their suspect and would backtrack if they think their target is town, but won't scum do the same? Explain a little more clearly.

I wouldn't say that admitting a mistake is AI, but I think that it's pro-town for me to accept that I was wrong about something and admit it.

[Redados]

Pro-town and anti-town actions are NAI individually. But if you collect enough of them then you have got yourself a read!

[MUSHSHAGANA]

On mobile for the time being due to returned computer, expect a change in typing style and more mistakes, apologies folks!

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Rock, van and Frogster are all missing in action — again. Concerning.

Two of them just seem to DO this.

But! But. Frogsterking, where are you?

[shellyc]

hat may have been my initial read, but it is developing (or else I am tunneling). You have a couple of anti-town tendencies. For example, you are quite defensive. You say this is not AI. We can go back and forth whether or not it is AI, but it is anti-town. Another example is that you yell at people for scumslipping. That is also not super helpful. Maybe it could be helpful, but not in the way that you go about it. To get back to the meta read, you did this last game and you were scum.

You say that my case on you is that you are playing similar to last game and you were scum. My actual "case" on you (which is less of a case and more of a scumread) is that you are playing in a similar, anti-town way to last game and you were scum last game.

1. I am defensive because I fear being scumread, as me being scumread is a

step closer to a miseliminate.

Fearing a miseliminate is not anti town.
2. I only said the word "scumslip"

once

in this game. It was directed at Mush for not voting their biggest scumread. I misunderstood it - town often do scummy things, and town could act anti town sometimes

I will repeat this one more time. Just because I did these things as scum doesn't mean I can't do these things as town. My tendencies happen

as both alignments.

But I will reflect on my behaviour if you call it anti-town.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

It’s really frustrating when more players than can be scum are practically not even playing the game. I’m here to hunt scum, not to poke and prod and coax the other players into posting something of substance every so often.

We need to get an elimination together for today, and I am almost about to say that none of those who have failed to weigh in but Frederick can be relied upon to actually VOTE on a timetable. So I’m going to say that unless Frederick can commit to a Rocknil elimination we need to push for a policy elimination on someone and start the whole process of pulling teeth and herding cats while we squish someone’s townread.

[Nahdia]

Vote Count 1.05

shellyc (2):

Redados, Frederick A Campbell

rocknil (2):

Frogsterking, ItalianoVD

Frederick A Campbell (1):

MUSHSHAGANA

Redados (1):

shellyc

ItalianoVD (1):

MagikHorse

MagikHorse (1):

van

Not Voting (1):

ItalianoVD

, rocknil

Deadline is in

(expired on 2020-08-25 15:51:33)

, at which point we will default to no elimination.

With nine players alive, it takes

five

to reach majority.

Note:

Prodding Frosterking.

[Frogsterking]

alright let's see what we can do here. i've overreacted to reactions before in medias im more experienced in however my instinct is that rocknil is town.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

My primary execution target is shellyc now. Give me several hours to do some things I have to get done and I will elaborate. I promise I will be less than 24 hours.

[Frogsterking]

My primary execution target is shellyc now. Give me several hours to do some things I have to get done and I will elaborate. I promise I will be less than 24 hours.

yeah like fred i have a few things i need to say as well. but i will spit some out now.

UNVOTE: rocknil

rocknil could be right, in the past i've overreacted to reactions many times. i think he could be scum and his partner was like "oh well i can't defend him now there are too many on him." i think more likely the general consensus of "oh golly well i sure dont have a problem lynchin' rocknil" implies that rocknil was a ML and one or both the scum are implicitly willing to jump on-board.

[Redados]

hat may have been my initial read, but it is developing (or else I am tunneling). You have a couple of anti-town tendencies. For example, you are quite defensive. You say this is not AI. We can go back and forth whether or not it is AI, but it is anti-town. Another example is that you yell at people for scumslipping. That is also not super helpful. Maybe it could be helpful, but not in the way that you go about it. To get back to the meta read, you did this last game and you were scum.

You say that my case on you is that you are playing similar to last game and you were scum. My actual "case" on you (which is less of a case and more of a scumread) is that you are playing in a similar, anti-town way to last game and you were scum last game.

1. I am defensive because I fear being scumread, as me being scumread is a

step closer to a miseliminate.

Fearing a miseliminate is not anti town.
2. I only said the word "scumslip"

once

in this game. It was directed at Mush for not voting their biggest scumread. I misunderstood it - town often do scummy things, and town could act anti town sometimes

I will repeat this one more time. Just because I did these things as scum doesn't mean I can't do these things as town. My tendencies happen

as both alignments.

But I will reflect on my behaviour if you call it anti-town.

1. Not wanting to be eliminated is NAI. Being defensive =/= not wanting to be eliminated. Nobody wants to be eliminated. Not everyone is defensive when they get one or two votes.

[Frogsterking]

First of all I want to point out that something which stood out to me from the redados/italion/shelly game was that shelly's partner in that game was an SE who got replaced in D1 and shelly totally threw her partner under the bus in that game. In that game shelly changed targets and someone else got lynched D1 but her partner got lynched D2.

The point being really that if it ever comes to a question of whether or not shelly will bus on D1 the answer is that she will.

VOTE: MagikHorse

I've given myself enough time to let the thread sink in I think and MagikHorse stuck out too much.

In my opinion if the rocknil lynch will just go down like that either i just nailed it straight out of the park or the scum are in the mid-activity posters like magikhorse and if not him then italiano. I feel too much for the hubris and what-not which makes me change even if that means sometimes i was just right the first time.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I don’t really disagree that rocknil could be a miselimination waiting to happen. My scumread is light and partially for pressure.

He IS, unequivocally, the easiest target to get a wagon on based on stated elimination pools. He also is one of the lowest engagement players and THE lowest information player, and his elimination (regardless of flip) substantially tightens the game state.

We have just over 48 hours to finalize an elimination. The happier people are to vote someone, the easier that wagon is to push.

I will not no-eliminate on Day 1, I will not do it. I will go so far as to say I will self-hammer before I do it. If that’s what is required to get a wagon to elimination, by god I will push myself to the gallows.

Rocknil has a whole lot to recommend removal and very little to back up saving him when you consider Time Constraints, Elimination Pools, and No Damn Engagement. We have three players who aren’t even contributing and not enough overlap to push an elimination any other way.

If Rocknil is a miselimination I will personally own it. But I will not no-eliminate on Day 1 under any circumstances, and only Frederick has nearly as much enthusiasm for his elimination.



Reframing this: Does anyone except Shelly object to a Shelly elimination? Can we get a lock on an elimination wagon and promises that active players will push it to completion no matter their gripes, please? Because otherwise I’m saying that we stick with rocknil because no other player is that slow to respond and lacking in any informational content, and no other player has as many potential happy voters waiting to plonk down on them.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Second reframe: Shelly is a high information target for elimination, MagikHorse is not. MagikHorse has done far less interacting with the majority of players, more bouncing off of them than pushing anything too hard. Since Frogster’s MagikHorse vote is in part based on scum-interpreted Shelly interactions, I would recommend her over him.

[Frogsterking]

i feel like the next 48 hours or so are critical to be on in if u r town because it gives u a chance to prevent things from being downhill tomorrow.

Frogster didn't ask me, but I have an answer anyway. For reasons of not influencing the answers of the INTENDED targets, I'm sitting on it till they answer.

what was it.

Yeah. (ignoring last game) this game Shelly has been pretty active and pushing. I don't necessarily agree with her pushes because she reaallly does not like being scumread. I am still scumreading her.

(using last game) I don't agree with Shelly's constant pushing because she was doing that last game; she kept yelling at MiniMegabyte for "scumslipping" (Mini was town). I think it's not helpful to latch onto small things and use them to justify a scumread. Sometimes you have a feeling you can't justify, but I think it's disingenuous to pull weak justification for your scumread. In retrospect, I may have done that with my initial scumread of Shelly, so I'm revising my scumread from a justified one to a gut one.

(ignoring last game) ItalianoVD has not been super active but he's posted enough. He's given reads and had conversations with people. I don't really have a handle on his alignment yet.

(using last game) something someone else said about how Italiano's playstyle might make him look scummier than he is resonates with me. I spent a lot of last game oscillating back and forth whether Italiano was scum or town and my impression is that he could hide it well enough if he were scum. It makes me scared to townread him or scumread him, although I'm townreading him now. I do feel like he was more active and off-the-cuff last game, but I haven't gone back and really ISOd and compared, which I will do at some point.

i just kind of feel like redados is town.

[Frogsterking]

Second reframe: Shelly is a high information target for elimination, MagikHorse is not. MagikHorse has done far less interacting with the majority of players, more bouncing off of them than pushing anything too hard. Since Frogster’s MagikHorse vote is in part based on scum-interpreted Shelly interactions, I would recommend her over him.

yeah that's why i voted them.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah. (ignoring last game) this game Shelly has been pretty active and pushing. I don't necessarily agree with her pushes because she reaallly does not like being scumread. I am still scumreading her.

(using last game) I don't agree with Shelly's constant pushing because she was doing that last game; she kept yelling at MiniMegabyte for "scumslipping" (Mini was town). I think it's not helpful to latch onto small things and use them to justify a scumread. Sometimes you have a feeling you can't justify, but I think it's disingenuous to pull weak justification for your scumread. In retrospect, I may have done that with my initial scumread of Shelly, so I'm revising my scumread from a justified one to a gut one.

(ignoring last game) ItalianoVD has not been super active but he's posted enough. He's given reads and had conversations with people. I don't really have a handle on his alignment yet.

(using last game) something someone else said about how Italiano's playstyle might make him look scummier than he is resonates with me. I spent a lot of last game oscillating back and forth whether Italiano was scum or town and my impression is that he could hide it well enough if he were scum. It makes me scared to townread him or scumread him, although I'm townreading him now. I do feel like he was more active and off-the-cuff last game, but I haven't gone back and really ISOd and compared, which I will do at some point.

Hmm..

That was off the cuff so I'm curious to hear your reaction.

it made me feel joy inside

[shellyc]

1. Not wanting to be eliminated is NAI. Being defensive =/= not wanting to be eliminated. Nobody wants to be eliminated. Not everyone is defensive when they get one or two votes.

So you concede my second point? One single NAI behaviour = scumread?

[Nahdia]

Seeking replacement for van.

[shellyc]

The point being really that if it ever comes to a question of whether or not shelly will bus on D1 the answer is that she will.

I'm fond of bussing. I guess I am. So you are saying that I may be scum with Redados / Fredrick / rocknil?

[Frogsterking]

I believe Redados was high activity in the very early game and then dropped off and I think it's less likely to me he does that there as scum.

I think Frederick has town told more than shelly and both have town told a similar amount to expect them to in the games they flip scum.

A narrative that entertains me is that it's both shelly and Fredick. The idea being that Frederick replaces a scum SE slot ~10 pages in, Frederick gives it a solid skim through, then all of a sudden an assortment of stylistic characters start pressuring him faster than he expected including his own partner bussing him and he gets flustered and suddenly has to tryhard in a newbie game. Especially if Frederick is more of a town player than a scum player and now he's stuck having to carry off his main role which was not what he expected entering into a newbie game. I don't know how accurate this narrative is I just thought it was funny to point out.