Newbie 2023 - Hedgehogs - Day 3

[Andresvmb]

When I’m home sure

@notscience I don’t know if you read through The Bulge and felt the stances remained safe. At this point that’s probably gone somewhat out the window with their relatively aggressive push on my slot, but maybe you disagree.

[notscience]

I didn't look in context but we had (Bella, IV, Andres, Walter)

IV was a common read

Andres was a common read

I feel like bella wasnt as common a read but hes since changed his tune to hard townread her today when it seems like shes had a lot of suspicion.

Walter wasnt really a common read I dont think

The two of them were together on an early wagon (I think it was Andres? Walter? I was just looking but I forgot)

And Bulge was off Bella before she became a popular scumread as well.

[notscience]

I think he's self concious more because its his first game and hes not sure what hes doing than hes scum trying to hide his alignment.

[Andresvmb]

Oh I’m not trying to argue about how Town and Scum play. I actually think it’s more individual than that. Some players lurk as Scum. Others come out hard. Some people hide behind logic and detailed, useless analysis. I’ve seen tremendous variation across players. My only way of trying to figure people out is a combination of gut, wagon analysis, and trying to put myself in people’s shoes and see if I can see a Town mindset or not. That’s it.

But you see two posts here from plusJoyed that detail how they determine alignments, and not a whole lot of consistency between that and the conclusions. So I’m trying to understand it.

No offense intended, but your first posts from memory seemed very newbie, as a fellow newbie at least, so I thought you might be a lurking scum. But you pointed out something I hadn't thought of so I take it back and am less inclined on you being scum.

You know, the more I play this game, the more I realize kind of how

bad

I can be in any one game. Asking elemental questions, missing the obvious, that kind of thing. I have played some games where I feel I can’t lose. And some where I’m centrally responsible for screwing it up. As either alignment. But I’m strictly only new to the site. I wouldn’t call myself a newbie.

[Andresvmb]

I didn't look in context but we had (Bella, IV, Andres, Walter)

IV was a common read

Andres was a common read

I feel like bella wasnt as common a read but hes since changed his tune to hard townread her today when it seems like shes had a lot of suspicion.

Walter wasnt really a common read I dont think

The two of them were together on an early wagon (I think it was Andres? Walter? I was just looking but I forgot)

And Bulge was off Bella before she became a popular scumread as well.

I can’t say I see some conclusion as to whether The Bulge is still being safe, which is why I asked again. Am I missing something?

[Andresvmb]

I think he's self concious more because its his first game and hes not sure what hes doing than hes scum trying to hide his alignment.

Ah okay fine.

[notscience]

Safe means staying with common reads and the public consensus. He's had some against the grain reads.

[notscience]

That being said his first post did come close to tripping my newbie scumtell. so hm.

[notscience]

Second post is referring to plus.

[Andresvmb]

I feel scum here might be Bella / Joy or Bella / Andres. Lynchpool today is Bella / Andres / Joy. Maybe Bulge would make it in. Joy's opening wasn't great to me. But partnership analysis only comes after we flip one scum.

I’m guessing the argument if I’m with Bella is that I’m hard bussing? Is that it? Do you think I feel there’s some sort of need for me to do that when I came in today as a player that was somewhat suspected by others and in most POEs?

[Andresvmb]

I feel scum here might be Bella / Joy or Bella / Andres. Lynchpool today is Bella / Andres / Joy. Maybe Bulge would make it in. Joy's opening wasn't great to me. But partnership analysis only comes after we flip one scum.

I’m guessing the argument if I’m with Bella is that I’m hard bussing? Is that it? Do you think I feel there’s some sort of need for me to do that when I came in today as a player that was somewhat suspected by others and in most POEs?

As in, do you see much of an incentive from my slot to generate a potential association with my Partner when I’m the one under more pressure?

[Andresvmb]

What I’m trying to say is that I think it should seem more likely to you that my interaction with Bella is either TvT or SvT. I find it odd that you would conclude it’s more often than not SvS, and that we’re trying to distance by voting each other D2. Since I was the alternative wagon D1, I probably don’t immediately turn around and SR my Partner and vote there. I would argue that would be an odd strategic choice.

[notscience]

You were scumreading her D1 too from my quick skim.

[Andresvmb]

I flip flopped a little on the slot D1 from my recollection. Because when I described my general view of the game Bella was a Slight Town Lean.

[notscience]

Ah, yes.

This is a weird series of posts though.

[Andresvmb]

This is the second time you’ve called my posts weird. I’m trying to explain myself a lot more here and also understand where others are coming from.

[shellyc]

That being said his first post did come close to tripping my newbie scumtell. so hm.

Can I know what your newb scumtell is? You've used it on me. (and I passed)

[shellyc]

Sorry that I haven't been posting a lot - kinda busy recently. I will look at that interaction (Andres-NS) above.

[shellyc]

What I’m trying to say is that I think it should seem more likely to you that my interaction with Bella is either TvT or SvT. I find it odd that you would conclude it’s more often than not SvS, and that we’re trying to distance by voting each other D2. Since I was the alternative wagon D1, I probably don’t immediately turn around and SR my Partner and vote there. I would argue that would be an odd strategic choice.

Why are you sure that turning around and SRing your partner is TvT / TvS? Because

I did that exact thing in my scumgame.

IMO it's NAI at best and I don't know why you two cannot be both scum.

[shellyc]

As in, do you see much of an incentive from my slot to generate a potential association with my Partner when I’m the one under more pressure?

Well, distancing from your partner when you are under the scrutiny of many players would certainly be a good way for your partner to receive easy towncred.

[notscience]

You seem very focused on convincing that you guys can’t be scum together based off your actions today.

I could see you guys distancing knowing the Poe pools are narrowing to you and then pushing it as “why would we do this”

Pedit
Tldr

New scum don’t know how to enter the thread and will usually go with some super uptight “Hi.”

Iirc it used to be pretty accurate

[Andresvmb]

As in, do you see much of an incentive from my slot to generate a potential association with my Partner when I’m the one under more pressure?

Well, distancing from your partner when you are under the scrutiny of many players would certainly be a good way for your partner to receive easy towncred.

No doubt it can be effective when done correctly. But there’s 2 wagons right now. Are you saying that I’m bussing my Partner to the point where I’m guaranteeing that the Town execute correctly? It’s fine if you want to create distance as Scum that’s all good. But this is a bit different no?

[Andresvmb]

You seem very focused on convincing that you guys can’t be scum together based off your actions today.

I could see you guys distancing knowing the Poe pools are narrowing to you and then pushing it as “why would we do this”

Pedit
Tldr

New scum don’t know how to enter the thread and will usually go with some super uptight “Hi.”

Iirc it used to be pretty accurate

I know the conclusion is incorrect, so I’m just trying to get shellyc to think about it more carefully. Just because you did it as Scum and it worked doesn’t mean I’m also Scum because from your POV I could be doing something similar.

[Andresvmb]

@shellyc in both of your solves you have Bella as Scum. Any reason you haven’t put a vote down yet?

[Andresvmb]

You seem very focused on convincing that you guys can’t be scum together based off your actions today.

I could see you guys distancing knowing the Poe pools are narrowing to you and then pushing it as “why would we do this”

Pedit
Tldr

New scum don’t know how to enter the thread and will usually go with some super uptight “Hi.”

Iirc it used to be pretty accurate

I know the conclusion is incorrect, so I’m just trying to get shellyc to think about it more carefully. Just because you did it as Scum and it worked doesn’t mean I’m also Scum because from your POV I could be doing something similar.

Besides, the whole post assumes that Bella will flip Scum, which we don’t know yet. If you want to try and throw out associative reads, then let’s get Scum first.