Newbie 2025 | Lilies | Game Over

[ItalianoVD]

Second reframe: Shelly is a high information target for elimination, MagikHorse is not. MagikHorse has done far less interacting with the majority of players, more bouncing off of them than pushing anything too hard. Since Frogster’s MagikHorse vote is in part based on scum-interpreted Shelly interactions, I would recommend her over him.

So you don't think I was pushing hard on Italiano at all then? Sure it was somewhat based on his bad logic,

but I was at least trying to crack through to see if there were some shady motivations behind that.

I could easily see scum!Italiano trying to get revenge on Shelly from the game before and hoping I'd see something to indicate that within.

And did you find what you looking for? What are your thoughts on others in the playerlist?

[MagikHorse]

I think shellyc is behaving rather townily because of her utter willingness to be the hang. However, some of you have said that she played similarly in your last game with her? That doesn't make me feel as good.
Right now, I have Italiano, MUSH, and shelly(tentatively) as town. I have Redados, Frogster, and Fredrick in my null pile. I am fine with hanging either MagikHorse or rocknil. MagikHorse because I think he has been mostly unoffensive in his posts and I noticed he tends to react to other people instead of bringing up new things. I think scum would take this route more often than not because it's quite safe and it's easy to get townread for it. rocknil because he isn't doing much.

My second shift schedule isn't helping as all but the late night posts (and Sunday day posts, maybe the occasional Saturday afternoon post) are made while I'm either asleep, at work, or otherwise out for the day, which makes it harder to respond in live-time. Add a relatively new work schedule (and building) to the drugged up start, and this hasn't quite been the best game for me thus far.

Even then, if my plan was to be safe why risk claiming the Shelly townread when most people at the time were scumreading her?

[Redados]

If we lim rocknil we get 0 associative tells as they have only townread Mush (which was pretty much universal anyways)

If we lim me you get an abundance of tells and analysis. I guess I will get my own wagon starting. Good luck to y'all tomorrow. My pure town energy will be in the dead thread.

Vote:shellyc

I wish I could say I saw this coming, but I didn't see this coming. Even then it feels like an emotional player caught up in frustration trying to be helpful in the wrong way?

You guys are right on Rocknil though. CLATS is not a great scenario without supporting reasons.

Shelley's actions are NAI (although arguably anti-town). She did THE same thing during day one of newbie 2019 where she appealed to emotion in the same way and it appeared very genuine.

[MagikHorse]

Second reframe: Shelly is a high information target for elimination, MagikHorse is not. MagikHorse has done far less interacting with the majority of players, more bouncing off of them than pushing anything too hard. Since Frogster’s MagikHorse vote is in part based on scum-interpreted Shelly interactions, I would recommend her over him.

So you don't think I was pushing hard on Italiano at all then? Sure it was somewhat based on his bad logic,

but I was at least trying to crack through to see if there were some shady motivations behind that.

I could easily see scum!Italiano trying to get revenge on Shelly from the game before and hoping I'd see something to indicate that within.

And did you find what you looking for? What are your thoughts on others in the playerlist?

I found something alright, but mostly that you're more stubborn than my uncle's mule even in the face of being dead wrong. I still need to take a step back and reconsider what that means, but first that means taking a break to clear out my mind instead of letting my imagination run wild.

As to everyone else, you already know I townread Shelly alongside consensus townread Mush. I don't like Frederick or the inactivity of Rocknil and scumread both.

I haven't looked into LavarManos yet, and need to reread Redados completely. Frogster is rather null to me so far, but I'd only lynch him as a contingency.

[LavarManos]

I am almost caught up, and I have a few more pages to go. Before I finish the read...

Even then, if my plan was to be safe why risk claiming the Shelly townread when most people at the time were scumreading her?

This is true, but I feel like it is easier to townread a townie who is being scumread than to scumread a townie who is being townread as scum.
Your point about why you haven't been able to do more real time stuff is fair, so I guess I'm leaning towards rocknil then.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Redados: I haven’t known it to be a problem in past games either, but, IIRC, in my past games people were far less reserved about voting anyone and everyone, with or without explanation. This game is a lot more hesitant late in the day than earlier in the day, which is all kinds of backwards and makes me worry about finding a target that we can push to elimination before end of day.

MagikHorse, your Italiano push was way more focused than its intensity deserved. This was more like a light consistent pressure, with few glances in other directions. The shove that van gave you was strong and information rich, and your response was “nah that’s fair”. Overly agreeable.

[MagikHorse]

I've already been over the Italiano stuff before. I gave it as much attention as it took in my mind, and that's about all there is to it. I'm still paranoid there, but that's about all I have there.

As to the Van shove, how did you expect me to respond to it then? I was on meds at the time that affected my thinking abilities, and it likely created that plethora of early mistakes Van called me out on. Should I lie for self-preservation? Should I accuse him for being right? No, both of those are bad plays as either alignment. If he's right he's right, even with the meds as an excuse to cover my butt, so why then is it overly agreeable to accept the truth as truth?

[Frogsterking]

yeah i want to make sure we get a target in. VOTE: shellyc

[Frogsterking]

im fine scumhunting on the last day as long as we have enough on to get the hammer in.

[Frogsterking]

i feel like we did our job D1

[Redados]

That's E-1! I would feel better if we waited another 18 or 24 hours or so to lim, because we still have over a day and a half left right now for Day 1.

[Redados]

VOTE: Unvote with intent to vote again 24 hours from now at 9PM CST.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

That part there.

If there’s more than 12 hours left in the Day, I’d prefer less active players lay their votes down and the active players withhold them to hammer closer to the deadline.

1: maximizing information gathered for Day 1.
2: reduces chances of scumteam forcing a hammer through to deny discussion time to town.

Frogster, what were you thinking putting Shelly at E-1 without saying? You could have promised to place your vote later or asked to swap vote position with another active player. I strongly dislike that your idea was to just push the vote to the very brink and risk losing the scum hunting and discussion time we’ll need going into Day 2. Hell, you could have prevented me from explaining my play today, which is arguably pro-scum — not just anti-town.

That in mind, next post is going to be an explanation of my play. But assuming Shelly flips Town and I survive the night, I am going to make Frogster my new best friend on Day 2. He won’t be able to fart without me reaching for a gas spectrometer and a dictaphone.

[LavarManos]

I think Redados unvoting is townie because he could have easily kept his vote on shellyc if she is town.
I am still not completely understanding why she is our primary target for elimination. I think her posts have been fine this game.

[Redados]

LavarManos, who would you like to lim today? (I suggest that you vote for them)

[LavarManos]

To be frank, I am not sure and I do not feel confident voting in anyone. My catchup was quite a skim, so I feel like I may be missing out on some important details. I'm not sure I believe in a shellyc elimination though. Perhaps rocknil or Fredrick?

[Redados]

Your vote is the most powerful tool you have in this game. We must vote in order to win, because voting to eliminate scum is our win condition. As you may have seen others explain, if we don't reach the vote threshold, the day defaults to no elimination, which is a lost opportunity. This gives us one less chance to reach our win condition. This means that a miselimination is better than no elimination.

Day one is a low information day, since we don't know much yet. The scum goal on day one is to try and miseliminate, so as town the only information we have is that two of us are trying to push for a miselimination; we want to figure out who is doing that. Or if Rocknil is the scum, then he is not saying anything (which is frustrating because it hurts the town to not give information). Since the scum know this, they are trying to survive so that they can live to miseliminate on future days.

That may have gotten a little long-winded.

Tldr; don't be afraid to vote!

[MagikHorse]

Speaking of voting mine is still on Italiano, though that is 100% not happening today. Frederick is better than Rocknil information-wise, so that's where it goes. If I need to move it to avoid a noelim I can in 21-24 hours-ish, though I hope it won't be necessary.

VOTE: Frederick

[shellyc]

Sorry for not posting as much as I'd like. I will catch up on the new posts made.

[shellyc]

That in mind, next post is going to be an explanation of my play. But assuming Shelly flips Town and I survive the night, I am going to make Frogster my new best friend on Day 2. He won’t be able to fart without me reaching for a gas spectrometer and a dictaphone.

Is there any reason why you acknowledge Frogster as scum? They are my null read here.

[shellyc]

I don't really like how Frogster seems to push for my hammer. they put me at E-1 without claiming it, they seemed to rush an elimination.

To address Redados talking about my appeal to emotion at E-1 during newbie 2019, there is a huge difference. In the game, I defended myself and I didn't think or want to die. In this game I am willing to die for the greater good - a miselim gives us info and a no elim does not.

[shellyc]

Honestly, Frederick at this point. I think Shelly is just emotional town, and everyone's right about the lack of info from a Rocknil flip.

If a lot of people think I'm town why in the world am I at what, E-2 right now? I am pretty sure scum is on this wagon.

[Redados]

Honestly, Frederick at this point. I think Shelly is just emotional town, and everyone's right about the lack of info from a Rocknil flip.

If a lot of people think I'm town why in the world am I at what, E-2 right now? I am pretty sure scum is on this wagon.

I'm not sure what the point of this question is. 4+ people think that you're scum. Just because MagikHorse townreads you doesn't mean that you're cleared all of a sudden. That makes no sense.

Saying that whoever is trying to lynch you is scum is not really productive either.

[shellyc]

I'm not sure what the point of this question is. 4+ people think that you're scum. Just because MagikHorse townreads you doesn't mean that you're cleared all of a sudden. That makes no sense.

Saying that whoever is trying to lynch you is scum is not really productive either.

Well, I know I am town. I know that a lot of town eliminates have scum on their wagon, because scum's wincon is to miselim as many towns as possible. This makes the people on my wagon likely to be scum. Does that make sense?

[Redados]

I don't think that it's well-thought out or helpful, no.