Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Game Over!

[GeorgeBailey]

Votecount 1.4

WaltertheDunce10(3)

~ Nosferatu(12), Not_Mafia(8), RCEnigma(25)

Nosferatu(2)

~ Frogsterking(7), WaltertheDunce10(38)

Frogsterking(2)

~ BananaCucho(39), ItalianoVD(25)

sordros(1)

~ callforjudgement(19)

Not_Mafia(1)

~ geraintm(14)

geraintm(1)

~ SJReaver(39)

callforjudgement(1)

~ Raya36(14)


Not Voting (2): Gamma Emerald(23), sordros(6)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-09-06 11:18:30)

FLAVOR

1:18 SCALE MINI CINDER BLOCK PALLET

[callforjudgement]

@Frogsterking: Do you view Nosferatu as significantly scummier than sordros? If so, what's the difference between the two slots?

[SJReaver]

I hope you all are enjoying the game.

[WaltertheDunce10]

From 273 Agreed with that on the frog point
Also odd that Nos would take such offense to it.
Also that he thinks that nm posts quality content on the rqs point.

[RCEnigma]

RCEnigma is probably the most likely scum on the Walter wagon (#256 looks a lot like a post-justification of "why this wagon, not that one?"), although this isn't all that strong a tell.

The Implication frog was making was that Nosferatu looks scummy for establishing a counterwagon (presumably frog would believe on town) but Frog would be the wagon Nosferatu is pushing pressure away from, making Nosferatu scummy for diverting from scum onto town.

Scum doesn't theater like that and I don't believe nos/frog to be partners. Also don't believe frog suggests he's scum being wagoned away from.

[SJReaver]

I don't see the Walter votes as being scummy. I just posted about how Walter acts when he's being voted on in what was clearly a defense of that slot. Walter then went from light scum reading me to town reading me.

A townie might vote Walter to see if he responds how I said he would or to see if I'd get aggressive in my defense.

Walter could be my scum buddy, we could be town masons, he might be scum wanting to use a townie as a shield, I might be scum trying to curry favor with a player I know gets miselimed. As he and I are currently active, putting vote pressure on his slot is a smart move.

RCEnigma is probably the most likely scum on the Walter wagon (#256 looks a lot like a post-justification of "why this wagon, not that one?"), although this isn't all that strong a tell.

The Implication frog was making was that Nosferatu looks scummy for establishing a counterwagon (presumably frog would believe on town) but Frog would be the wagon Nosferatu is pushing pressure away from, making Nosferatu scummy for diverting from scum onto town.

Scum doesn't theater like that and I don't believe nos/frog to be partners. Also don't believe frog suggests he's scum being wagoned away from.

How does scum usually theater?

[ItalianoVD]

...and I don't believe nos/frog to be partners.

Why not? Could you be wrong there?

[ItalianoVD]

he posted too many questions its not that deep

Oh I see so nothing.

[RCEnigma]

How does scum usually theater?

Not by implying to the thread that they are partners....I would imagine.

[RCEnigma]

...and I don't believe nos/frog to be partners.

Why not? Could you be wrong there?

I could be wrong about everything I've said here. But it would be silly of me to think I am.

[ItalianoVD]

...and I don't believe nos/frog to be partners.

Why not? Could you be wrong there?

I could be wrong about everything I've said here. But it would be silly of me to think I am.

Aight. I get you.

[Nosferatu]

he posted too many questions its not that deep

Oh I see so nothing. ;)

idk why u were looking for something where there is none

[geraintm]

Only a quick post before bed, will post properly tomorrow, but i think mynaim this game is to make it last long enough that mod runs out of images of bricks

[Frogsterking]

Also odd that Foster should be upset with active lurking given they have one of the lowest post counts.

Not really. Active lurking and low post count don't have much in common. Ripped straight from the Mafiascum wiki:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ve_Lurking

"Active Lurking, also referred to as Fluffposting or Fillering, is the act of posting (thus differentiating it from ordinary Lurking), but the material posted is irrelevant or otherwise useless for scumhunting.

Examples of active lurking include posts made only of taunts, excuses for not posting, incoherent gibberish that will lead people to suspect that you do not have the Internet savvy to play Mafia, general bland agreement with whatever is going on, prod dodges, and so forth. For the less couth readers, this is frequently called "bullshitting" in MeatWorld.

This tactic is employed by scum who wish to appear more active than they actually are; either for the scum who has no comment on the current matter but does not want to seem like they are lurking, or for the lurker who wants to paint themselves as slightly better than some other lurker.

The effectiveness of this tactic is quite impressive if players are not specifically looking for it. It is a common Town mistake to wish for the elimination of people they violently disagree with over the people who post whatever they can to stay on the periphery. However, Towns nowadays are often aware of this behaviour and will consider it a major scumtell."

(And #266, which Italiano posted while I was writing that, says pretty much the same thing in using many fewer words. This makes me suspect that Italiano is town, having come to the same conclusion as me independently from the same evidence.)

This line of thinking is a mistake in my opinion.

@Frogsterking: Do you view Nosferatu as significantly scummier than sordros? If so, what's the difference between the two slots?

Yes. Here are the top four differences:

#1 Experience

It's easy to see sordros is new to the format of the game. Here is his first post in the spoilers below:

Spoiler:

I know a few players in the playerlist (SJReaver, Frogsterking, & Walter)

I don’t know the others, but this is for everyone...

1. What is your mafia experience?
2. What is your play style strength(s)? Weakness(es)? Do you know?
3. In your opinion, what is the most important thing to look for while scumhunting? While townreading?

I’ll go first.

• - This is my 5th game game onsite, however, I have been playing the wolf/village variation of the game on a forum called WeBL since about 2006. I’m still learning how to play the game on this platform; trying to get the terms down and all that; still learning the roles and alignment s and slots and all that, so by mafia standards I’m still a noob.
  - I’d have to say my strength is the ability to townread players. Because of my overall experience I am right on village/town reads probably about 80-85% of the time all time. It’s obviously not that high on here, but still fairly high enough, I’d say about 55%. My weakness is scumhunting. A large part of this is my overthinking. Many times I’ve talked myself out of scumreads or finding wolves because of this. No matter how much I’ve tried to alleviate this flaw it keeps biting me in the butt, so I figured I’d focus on my strength and try to keep strengthening that.
  - I think looking for inconsistencies and either passiveness or aggressiveness given the context. When I townread, it’s mainly gut sometimes as I can’t point to something specific, but I’d say I look for a player being disagreeable and/or a player who has his own thoughts and mind and doesn’t go with the crowd.

Look forward to your answers.

Hello fellows!
I like this way to get things going.

I’ve played mafia here for a while a long time ago and played werewolf/mafia here and there over the years.
I don’t think I’m introspective enough to know my real strengths and weaknesses, but I guess I’m kind of good at paying attention to detail when I have enough time and spotting inconsistencies, which I think is the best way to hunt mafia scum.
I get a townie vibe from people who participate and keeps things clear, without inconsistencies. Problem is a good mafia player will strive to achieve just that.
That’s what keeps things interesting for this game I guess.

Peace!

#2 Intent

Because of difference #1, Experience, it's difficult to discern whether sordros's lack of presence is due to difficulty keeping up with the pace of the game or a desire to hide something. Contrast this with Nosferatu whose intent to not contribute is very purposeful in the spoilers below:

Spoiler:

prodge to post when i'm sober

im posting for the mod not you doofus

I recognize tour cote has valid criticism of my gameplay so far.
Nm nosferatu
Any fucking reads?

thats a lil personal dont u think?

#3 Openness

Despite the lack of presence, in contrast to Nosferatu's evasiveness in the examples above, it's easy to find examples of sordros participating in the discussion in some way. In addition to sordros's intro post in the spoilers under #1, more examples of sordros providing unsolicited input into the discussion in the spoilers below:

Spoiler:

We don't know anything about the set-up?

No idea how many mafia there are, if there are more than two factions? No idea what roles people might have?

This is weird. I don't like it.

Here's some better questions guys:

1) What do you like most about cinderblocks

2) What is your favorite concrete color mix?

3) When was the first time a cinder block changed your life?

4) What is the capital of Assyria?

5) Do you believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith?

1. They are solid.
2. Grayish
3. When it smashed my toes
4. Assur?
5. More input required to compute

Wow. At this point in time you are suspicious of the labeled RVS?
I guess I’d think it depends on the bandwidth each player has to invest on this but honestly I don’t get any clear read from what I’ve read so far. I’d consider random voting still valid. Let me go back and review the posts...

More from me tomorrow

What happens when someone fluffposts a lot is that the thread ends up expanding quickly and making the useful content harder to find; then people end up dreading having to catch up (and get frustrated at the "thread has been bumped" indicators), stop reading for a while, their eyes glaze over and they stop scumhunting. Then scum win. Reducing the number of posts like that (even if you simply just combine them) makes it easier for players to get into the game, and makes people generally easier to read.

Oh I can definitely agree to that. Too much volume makes it harder for me to catch-up and easier for smart scum to hide between the lines.

#4 Attention

Sordoros's attention seems to be on group discussions and thoughts and feelings of other players. If he's not interested in opening new lines of discussions, he's at least interested in continuing existing ones. He also seems to avoid discussions containing filler. This is in contrast with Nosferatu whose attention is on filler and shutting down lines of discussion (especially shutting down lines regarding scum tells and/or himself):

Spoiler:

Wouldn't call active lurking + silent BW + immediate counter BW from three other players a null slot or bad excuse for a vote.

u unironically sat down at ur computer and said that u didnt believe that i would post sober bc the person in my avatar was smoking LMAO

he posted too many questions its not that deep

he posted too many questions its not that deep

Oh I see so nothing.

idk why u were looking for something where there is none

By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.

Nope. By the end of day 1 no one will have caught scum. Never happened before, it isnt going to change here

Wdym by “no one will have caught scum”

I find day 1s fairly useless, way too much noise and people being too clever. no one has got any info to go on and day one is just random....excepting scum never get lynched.

thats cause you suck at the game

VOTE: Walter

RQS should be permabannable

finally some quality content

Final Notes:

There was one post from sordoros I thought could be a scum tell because of its potential to be gloating:

Spoiler:

By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.

Awesome! Looking forward to that!

I also thought Nosferatu's reaction to my FoS was terrible in addition to his silent BW in the spoilers below:

Spoiler:

I feel like Nosferatu if he flipped town would just post some filler there instead of explaining that he couldn't post filler because he's drunk.

Like you really think a guy who took the time to upload an animated avatar of some movie star consuming a cigar or joint or whatever the fuck that is would feel too self-aware to post some filler because he's been drinking?

what are you even saying bro
which one of us was drinking last night lmao

wait until sober to post*

VOTE: walter

Overall sordoros appears closer to new-neutral than new-scum from my point of view while Nosferatu straight up deserves a BW.

[Nosferatu]

am i getting punk'd lmao?

u accused me of active lurking on like my 2nd or 3rd post lmao?

did prodging become AI while i was away im starting to get lost in the sauce rn

[Frogsterking]

am i getting punk'd lmao?

u accused me of active lurking on like my 2nd or 3rd post lmao?

did prodging become AI while i was away im starting to get lost in the sauce rn

VOTE: Nosferatu VOTE: Nosferatu

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m with Nosferatu here, that’s way to early to attempt to suggest active lurking

[Raya36]

What is bad from my perspective of 91 is the second part on the part about tomorrownow she may have picked up a scum italiano but it does not seem helpful. K, enthuisiastic, yes.
The come get me scum posts that are 112 113 and 114, and 115 where she says she is scum.

Do you think claiming scum more likely comes from scum though? Especially from someone new?

[Raya36]

5.
No.
Here I developed some even better questions!
1. Is it okay to put rotting produce into an uncooked stead as a filler?
What is the cinderblock you would like most as a pet?
Are pineapples good on pizzas?

VOTE: Walther
Now you’re just wasting time and space with this

Why would you call this out but not call me out for doing the exact same thing?

I disagree with any notion of "wasting time" when we have 2 week long days lol

His explicitly comes off as wasting time
You just seem like a less serious person in general

But to elaborate, the prolonging of the RQS came off as scum who didn’t have a good transition into the full game yet. One was alright and the first was some good questions, the second had less compelling questions but felt orderly enough to not bother me. The third was super random and out of place imo.

The third from Walter felt like trying to fit in

[ItalianoVD]

Also odd that Foster should be upset with active lurking given they have one of the lowest post counts.

Not really. Active lurking and low post count don't have much in common. Ripped straight from the Mafiascum wiki:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ve_Lurking

"Active Lurking, also referred to as Fluffposting or Fillering, is the act of posting (thus differentiating it from ordinary Lurking), but the material posted is irrelevant or otherwise useless for scumhunting.

Examples of active lurking include posts made only of taunts, excuses for not posting, incoherent gibberish that will lead people to suspect that you do not have the Internet savvy to play Mafia, general bland agreement with whatever is going on, prod dodges, and so forth. For the less couth readers, this is frequently called "bullshitting" in MeatWorld.

This tactic is employed by scum who wish to appear more active than they actually are; either for the scum who has no comment on the current matter but does not want to seem like they are lurking, or for the lurker who wants to paint themselves as slightly better than some other lurker.

The effectiveness of this tactic is quite impressive if players are not specifically looking for it. It is a common Town mistake to wish for the elimination of people they violently disagree with over the people who post whatever they can to stay on the periphery. However, Towns nowadays are often aware of this behaviour and will consider it a major scumtell."

(And #266, which Italiano posted while I was writing that, says pretty much the same thing in using many fewer words. This makes me suspect that Italiano is town, having come to the same conclusion as me independently from the same evidence.)

This line of thinking is a mistake in my opinion.

@Frogsterking: Do you view Nosferatu as significantly scummier than sordros? If so, what's the difference between the two slots?

Yes. Here are the top four differences:

#1 Experience

It's easy to see sordros is new to the format of the game. Here is his first post in the spoilers below:

Spoiler:

I know a few players in the playerlist (SJReaver, Frogsterking, & Walter)

I don’t know the others, but this is for everyone...

1. What is your mafia experience?
2. What is your play style strength(s)? Weakness(es)? Do you know?
3. In your opinion, what is the most important thing to look for while scumhunting? While townreading?

I’ll go first.

• - This is my 5th game game onsite, however, I have been playing the wolf/village variation of the game on a forum called WeBL since about 2006. I’m still learning how to play the game on this platform; trying to get the terms down and all that; still learning the roles and alignment s and slots and all that, so by mafia standards I’m still a noob.
  - I’d have to say my strength is the ability to townread players. Because of my overall experience I am right on village/town reads probably about 80-85% of the time all time. It’s obviously not that high on here, but still fairly high enough, I’d say about 55%. My weakness is scumhunting. A large part of this is my overthinking. Many times I’ve talked myself out of scumreads or finding wolves because of this. No matter how much I’ve tried to alleviate this flaw it keeps biting me in the butt, so I figured I’d focus on my strength and try to keep strengthening that.
  - I think looking for inconsistencies and either passiveness or aggressiveness given the context. When I townread, it’s mainly gut sometimes as I can’t point to something specific, but I’d say I look for a player being disagreeable and/or a player who has his own thoughts and mind and doesn’t go with the crowd.

Look forward to your answers.

Hello fellows!
I like this way to get things going.

I’ve played mafia here for a while a long time ago and played werewolf/mafia here and there over the years.
I don’t think I’m introspective enough to know my real strengths and weaknesses, but I guess I’m kind of good at paying attention to detail when I have enough time and spotting inconsistencies, which I think is the best way to hunt mafia scum.
I get a townie vibe from people who participate and keeps things clear, without inconsistencies. Problem is a good mafia player will strive to achieve just that.
That’s what keeps things interesting for this game I guess.

Peace!

#2 Intent

Because of difference #1, Experience, it's difficult to discern whether sordros's lack of presence is due to difficulty keeping up with the pace of the game or a desire to hide something. Contrast this with Nosferatu whose intent to not contribute is very purposeful in the spoilers below:

Spoiler:

prodge to post when i'm sober

im posting for the mod not you doofus

I recognize tour cote has valid criticism of my gameplay so far.
Nm nosferatu
Any fucking reads?

thats a lil personal dont u think?

#3 Openness

Despite the lack of presence, in contrast to Nosferatu's evasiveness in the examples above, it's easy to find examples of sordros participating in the discussion in some way. In addition to sordros's intro post in the spoilers under #1, more examples of sordros providing unsolicited input into the discussion in the spoilers below:

Spoiler:

We don't know anything about the set-up?

No idea how many mafia there are, if there are more than two factions? No idea what roles people might have?

This is weird. I don't like it.

Here's some better questions guys:

1) What do you like most about cinderblocks

2) What is your favorite concrete color mix?

3) When was the first time a cinder block changed your life?

4) What is the capital of Assyria?

5) Do you believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith?

1. They are solid.
2. Grayish
3. When it smashed my toes
4. Assur?
5. More input required to compute

Wow. At this point in time you are suspicious of the labeled RVS?
I guess I’d think it depends on the bandwidth each player has to invest on this but honestly I don’t get any clear read from what I’ve read so far. I’d consider random voting still valid. Let me go back and review the posts...

More from me tomorrow

What happens when someone fluffposts a lot is that the thread ends up expanding quickly and making the useful content harder to find; then people end up dreading having to catch up (and get frustrated at the "thread has been bumped" indicators), stop reading for a while, their eyes glaze over and they stop scumhunting. Then scum win. Reducing the number of posts like that (even if you simply just combine them) makes it easier for players to get into the game, and makes people generally easier to read.

Oh I can definitely agree to that. Too much volume makes it harder for me to catch-up and easier for smart scum to hide between the lines.

#4 Attention

Sordoros's attention seems to be on group discussions and thoughts and feelings of other players. If he's not interested in opening new lines of discussions, he's at least interested in continuing existing ones. He also seems to avoid discussions containing filler. This is in contrast with Nosferatu whose attention is on filler and shutting down lines of discussion (especially shutting down lines regarding scum tells and/or himself):

Spoiler:

Wouldn't call active lurking + silent BW + immediate counter BW from three other players a null slot or bad excuse for a vote.

u unironically sat down at ur computer and said that u didnt believe that i would post sober bc the person in my avatar was smoking LMAO

he posted too many questions its not that deep

he posted too many questions its not that deep

Oh I see so nothing.

idk why u were looking for something where there is none

By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.

Nope. By the end of day 1 no one will have caught scum. Never happened before, it isnt going to change here

Wdym by “no one will have caught scum”

I find day 1s fairly useless, way too much noise and people being too clever. no one has got any info to go on and day one is just random....excepting scum never get lynched.

thats cause you suck at the game

VOTE: Walter

RQS should be permabannable

finally some quality content

Final Notes:

There was one post from sordoros I thought could be a scum tell because of its potential to be gloating:

Spoiler:

By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.

Awesome! Looking forward to that!

I also thought Nosferatu's reaction to my FoS was terrible in addition to his silent BW in the spoilers below:

Spoiler:

I feel like Nosferatu if he flipped town would just post some filler there instead of explaining that he couldn't post filler because he's drunk.

Like you really think a guy who took the time to upload an animated avatar of some movie star consuming a cigar or joint or whatever the fuck that is would feel too self-aware to post some filler because he's been drinking?

what are you even saying bro
which one of us was drinking last night lmao

wait until sober to post*

VOTE: walter

Overall sordoros appears closer to new-neutral than new-scum from my point of view while Nosferatu straight up deserves a BW.

Well at the very least he’s an unhelpful pointless townie
VOTE: Nosferatu

[Nosferatu]

Well at the very least he’s an unhelpful pointless townie
VOTE: Nosferatu

ok now i know somethings up bro you're not telling me you actually read that incoherent ramble and just said "well ya know hes not doing much"

WHAT

I also thought Nosferatu's reaction to my FoS was terrible in addition to his silent BW in the spoilers below:

I feel like Nosferatu if he flipped town would just post some filler there instead of explaining that he couldn't post filler because he's drunk.

Like you really think a guy who took the time to upload an animated avatar of some movie star consuming a cigar or joint or whatever the fuck that is would feel too self-aware to post some filler because he's been drinking?

what are you even saying bro
which one of us was drinking last night lmao

wait until sober to post*

VOTE: walter

Overall sordoros appears closer to new-neutral than new-scum from my point of view while Nosferatu straight up deserves a BW.

he didnt even say what he didnt like bro

what the fuck is a silent bandwagon, a naked vote?

he literally quoted a correction you can't even tell what im talking about

this is like performance art

[Nosferatu]

hes literally babbling and you're eating it up LMFAO did you even open the spoilers???

[Raya36]

I think Frog is probably town

also moving my vote somewhere more useful
VOTE: Walter

[Nosferatu]

I think Frog is probably town

also moving my vote somewhere more useful
VOTE: Walter

why do you think its more useful there???

[Raya36]

There's no wagon on callforjudgement anymore while there is on Walter. Plus I can barely read judgements posts so I need to go back through later