Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Game Over!

[WaltertheDunce10]

I’m doing Creature style reads this game, deal with it

ItalianoVD
callforjudgement

Gamma Emerald

BananaCucho

SJReaver

Not_Mafia
geraintm
Raya36
Frogsterking

Nosferatu

RCEnigma
sordros

WaltertheDunce10

Linethrough = townread, italics = not exactly a townread but don’t want to vote there
FYI I will probably work on tuning my reads soon

And I assume neither means neutral or null ?

[RCEnigma]

Gamma what if I told you that you aren't the scum I've found but you are one of the slots I'm scumreading at the moment?

[callforjudgement]

ik for a fact that you've played with good scumplayers who actively scumhunt and promote pro-town ideas and are totally passable as town by like 80% of this playerbase so that argument falls on its face right there

So what? You don't have to catch all three scum day 1. Do you really think there are likely to be three such players on the scumteam?

There's also a very real cost to scum of playing in too townsided a manner; it gives away a lot of information that's helpful for future days. If a scumteam contains one strong scumhunter who's playing as though they're town, they'll likely end up isolated with nothing but strong townreads on day 4, with their buddies dead, and somehow never nightkilled. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened there. In practice, therefore, most scum who are capable of playing in a highly pro-town way simply don't do that. The thing about pro-town play is that, by definition, it tends to make town win.

[WaltertheDunce10]

you might want more....but I am notgoing to fake a bunch of reads just to please you.

I kinda like this statement by gerain because it does not show a willingness to appease and shows he wants to put some thought into it.Though he could just be stalling but Idk

[Nosferatu]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened there.

In practice, this does not occur

[Not_Mafia]

I’m doing Creature style reads this game, deal with it

ItalianoVD
callforjudgement

Gamma Emerald

BananaCucho

SJReaver

Not_Mafia
geraintm
Raya36
Frogsterking

Nosferatu

RCEnigma
sordros

WaltertheDunce10

Linethrough = townread, italics = not exactly a townread but don’t want to vote there
FYI I will probably work on tuning my reads soon

I'm town

[callforjudgement]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened there.

In practice, this does not occur

Of course not. Scum don't play that pro-town, even if they're capable of it, because it would be bad strategy for them. Town do play that pro-town, sometimes, and it usually wins them the game. Why would you think that playing like that would be a

bad

thing for a townie?

[Nosferatu]

i'm saying i've played plenty of games with totally obvious scum that win in XyLo

[Nosferatu]

i'm also not saying that you should be always anti town as town but it behooves you to do so in the first couple of days so you can actually play the game lmfao

[callforjudgement]

In general, I'm happy if I get nightkilled night 1. Maybe I shouldn't be, because sometimes the town ends up losing to something I could have prevented, but I don't think my reads are that much better than the average townie's that I should be playing for self-preservation.

[Nosferatu]

well, id rather lose a game being wrong in xylo than winning from literally just obvtowning and dying night 1 but we have diff personalities and we've already left the scope of this game

[Nosferatu]

I’m doing Creature style reads this game, deal with it :cool:

ItalianoVD
callforjudgement

Gamma Emerald

BananaCucho

SJReaver

Not_Mafia
geraintm
Raya36
Frogsterking

Nosferatu

RCEnigma
sordros

WaltertheDunce10

Linethrough = townread, italics = not exactly a townread but don’t want to vote there
FYI I will probably work on tuning my reads soon

And I assume neither means neutral or null ?

no neutral means 3p

[Nosferatu]

neither*

[callforjudgement]

im so over this bullshit read my town pm and weep

VOTE: nosferatu

if ur on this wagon you suck at this game

it is anti-town wincon to bleed town d1 and you know it cfg, and that bullshit abt consequences of being on whats basically an rvs wagon is ridiculous

those actions.

I think Frogster's initial case on Nosferatu is weak (but seems to be sincere), but Nosferatu's reaction to it has been pretty telling in its own right.

which bit didn't you like?

i dont like unvoting; i dont see a pressing reason to switch off, etc

this I amfine with for example.
note that you are buddying up with frogster and using their logic/wagon to justify your own vote

thats not what buddying means bro im not pocketing him by telling him his case is shit or endearing myself to him in any fucking way

just send me to the fucking spoiler chat

im not entertaining u more votes lemme see the spoiler chat

well, id rather lose a game being wrong in xylo than winning from literally just obvtowning and dying night 1 but we have diff personalities and we've already left the scope of this game

These strike me as an odd combination of posts. a) Surely the sort of person who'd rather win or lose a game through their own agency lategame would prefer to fight rather than giving up? b) It seems strange for a person who's apparently sufficiently exasperated with me to refuse to engage with a simple question to clarify an ambiguous statement to subsequently have a civil and quite reasonable conversation with me about correct town strategy.

As a consequence, I'm pretty much convinced that Nosferatu's self-vote is insincere. I'm not sure whether this specific bit of insincereness is scummy, though; I can believe that Nosferatu genuinely thinks that a bit of AtE/theatre in this situation is actually good townplay (it isn't, but…).

Nosferatu, I would at least encourage you to unvote yourself. I know you don't put much stock in putting town off to a good start despite dying early; but if you do end up being town's target for today, having one more vote from unflipped players on you will give us more information from your wagon; and if we end up having to decide between multiple wagons, having fewer votes on yours will obviously increase the chance that you survive.

[RCEnigma]

But I only know one person that has voted scum for sure.

?

I see not mafia is being their normal day 1 self too

It's Raya, literally the only person to vote scum for sure this game.

VOTE: CFJ

[Nosferatu]

if i get wagoned for dumb shit like this its obvious im not gonna have the agency i want later on so id rather get it over with now and just go next

[Nosferatu]

arent i scum anyway? why are you trying to get me to unvote its against ur wincon

[callforjudgement]

I've been trying to see you as town for pages now! (I think some players might have picked up on this.) You are making it very difficult, though. Why do you think I didn't vote you immediately in #305 or #307? My read is along the lines of "players acting like Nosferatu do normally (but not always) end up flipping town, but Nosferatu's behaviour is so anti-town, and will be read as such by the majority of players, that it really needs to be changed in a hurry, and hopefully the tells from that will make things clearer to everyone". So after you refused my first couple of attempts to get you to allow yourself to be sorted, I thought that increasing the pressure would help, but you just doubled down on the anti-towniness (meaning that you might need to be voted out anyway because you'll almost inevitably become a compromise elimination at some point, and sooner is better than later in these situations, so my vote wasn't exactly being wasted).

Also, even if you're scum, it's still in town's interest for you to not be on your own wagon at the time you get eliminated. More information from day 1 = more dead scum later.

[Nosferatu]

you know what i dont think someone with an avatar such as urself would engage in this kind of pro-town behavior

VOTE: cfg

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m doing Creature style reads this game, deal with it

ItalianoVD
callforjudgement

Gamma Emerald

BananaCucho

SJReaver

Not_Mafia
geraintm
Raya36
Frogsterking

Nosferatu

RCEnigma
sordros

WaltertheDunce10

Linethrough = townread, italics = not exactly a townread but don’t want to vote there
FYI I will probably work on tuning my reads soon

And I assume neither means neutral or null ?

Neither means still a possible suspect
I am feeling like this will be a PoE game for me FYI

@RCE

I would be intrigued because it implies there is a scum you’ve caught by now.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m doing Creature style reads this game, deal with it

ItalianoVD
callforjudgement

Gamma Emerald

BananaCucho

SJReaver

Not_Mafia
geraintm
Raya36
Frogsterking

Nosferatu

RCEnigma
sordros

WaltertheDunce10

Linethrough = townread, italics = not exactly a townread but don’t want to vote there
FYI I will probably work on tuning my reads soon

I'm town

sure you are buddy

[Gamma Emerald]

i'm also not saying that you should be always anti town as town but it behooves you to do so in the first couple of days so you can actually play the game lmfao

If you are good at the game/an important PR, sure
But I don’t think you’re the former off experience and am thus concerned by you implying the latter

[ItalianoVD]

Oh wow, gotta lot to catch up on.

[RCEnigma]

I’m doing Creature style reads this game, deal with it

ItalianoVD
callforjudgement

Gamma Emerald

BananaCucho

SJReaver

Not_Mafia
geraintm
Raya36
Frogsterking

Nosferatu

RCEnigma
sordros

WaltertheDunce10

Linethrough = townread, italics = not exactly a townread but don’t want to vote there
FYI I will probably work on tuning my reads soon

And I assume neither means neutral or null ?

Neither means still a possible suspect
I am feeling like this will be a PoE game for me FYI

@RCE

I would be intrigued because it implies there is a scum you’ve caught by now.

But I only know one person that has voted scum for sure.

?

I see not mafia is being their normal day 1 self too

It's Raya, literally the only person to vote scum for sure this game.

VOTE: CFJ

[GeorgeBailey]

;