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[Andresvmb]

https://forum.mafia451.com/t/urists-jun ... r/4000/697

[Andresvmb]

I have never played on epicmafia before.

[Andresvmb]

In that game, I was Town Doctor and had access to the dead PT. Two other players that were alive also had access to the dead PT when I made my gambit. The idea was to reveal that I was Doctor in the dead PT, and announce my target, who was quite likely to be the NK (and I was under heavy suspicion). I ended up blocked, and my target dead, which confirmed that the other player in the dead PT was Scum, eventually solving the game. For some reason, the Scum didn’t ignore me (which they should have done), and the play worked.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway, you can read it yourself if you wish.

[DkKoba]

i have a big headache but i'll save it for later.

at this point i feel like i wanna just vote aldu too. bc if thats wrong then both ico and npom are scum which feels unsolvable and in whch case i just wanna end game and take the L early instead of drawing it out.

[DkKoba]

I may ask you to unvote and let me vote aldu andres. just to assuage people that its not an attempt to blitz on them.

[Andresvmb]

Wait for Ico and Hellbooks to comment first. I want to see what they have to say.

[Andresvmb]

i have a big headache but i'll save it for later.

at this point i feel like i wanna just vote aldu too. bc if thats wrong then both ico and npom are scum which feels unsolvable and in whch case i just wanna end game and take the L early instead of drawing it out.

But yeah I mean this is the point. If I’m wrong about Ico for example then the game will end in a loss most of the time so we might as well speed it up and make some decisions that are completely inevitable. I’m not asking anybody to take a chance on a decision that can be avoided some other kind of way. This literally can’t be avoided. So let’s just get on with it.

[Andresvmb]

aldu if u vote testa ill tr u for free

lol i'll take what I can get

VOTE: Testarossa

But the more I hear from Andres the more I think he's town.

maybe i was overestimating the strenght of this statement

I meant the more I think Aldus is town.

sooooo... you meant the exact opposite of what you said basically?

oops

lmao

Just remember stuff like this as you ponder what 1v1 to solve!

[VP Baltar]

i have a big headache but i'll save it for later.

at this point i feel like i wanna just vote aldu too. bc if thats wrong then both ico and npom are scum which feels unsolvable and in whch case i just wanna end game and take the L early instead of drawing it out.

But yeah I mean this is the point. If I’m wrong about Ico for example then the game will end in a loss most of the time so we might as well speed it up and make some decisions that are completely inevitable. I’m not asking anybody to take a chance on a decision that can be avoided some other kind of way. This literally can’t be avoided. So let’s just get on with it.

Lol

Yes, let's take a chance with two potential scum negotiating what the confirmed town players should do.

This is next level hilarious.

[VP Baltar]

This day has become WIFOM central. Here are basically the only facts anyone should be troubling themselves with:

1) VP has was forced to reveal he is a PT Cop in a gambit by Datisi, who claimed loyal neighborizer rather than tracker.
2) VP truthfully noted he visited George Bailey. (confirmed by hidden Billy track)
2) We believe scum have a rolecop and that's how they found Billy. That makes it extremely unlikely scum also have a PT cop.
3) VP has proven he is a PT cop by getting a false positive on hellbrooks.
4) VP has claimed a guilty on Koba.
5) Koba and VP have voted each other without a hammer, therefore one of them must be scum.

I'm trying to present the above facts as unbiased as I can, so people can see how ridiculous it is to think Koba is not scum in this situation.

[DkKoba]

cool so why are you alive?

[DkKoba]

Solo role cop vs a pt cop

U rolecopped billy n1 obv

Datisi outs on d2. You know masons exist alongside a tracker..


Its 2+2

[Alduskkel]

koba how would YOU feel if i decided to vote aldus

Well not happy likely. I think they have the 2nd highest town equity here

You think Aldus is town?

@Koba could you answer this?

[DkKoba]

i think they're likely to be town but i want to reread before i take a proper stance but gun to my head right now id say town

[Iconeum]

And seriously, why should I ignore my gut just because you conveniently come out with a guilty in ELo?

Stop being egotistical. Your gut is not better than my proven PT cop ability, nor are you more town than me just because you weren't on the testa wagon.

I have a confirmed guilty. I'd have to be a mind reader as scum to get to this position faking it. Koba is the elimination.

Your ability is proven, I agree. There’s no doubt in my mind that the actual ability to check for PTs is present in the game. But I’m not being egotistical. I don’t trust you. It’s just plain and simple. You tried to participate on a wagon on me that was clearly Scum motivated. And it’s plain for everyone to see, since the identical wagon then formed on Testa who was Town and as a counter wagon to a slot that I’m almost certain is Scum.

holy shit i cannot stress enough how much i dislike this andres post

[Iconeum]

Don’t we have to as some point? If VPB is Town, does anyone really think the Scum are stupid enough to let him keep on going to clear more players in future days? C’mon now

Actually, ur wrong.

In the case of scum!VP, he won't die.
In the case of town!VP, he won't die. In this scenario, scum are committed to the frame. If we flip for example aldus today and he is scum, and scum then kill VP, we *KNOW* koba is scum. OTOH, if scum kill Hellbooks, who is actually conftown, scum can continue sowing distrust and WIFOM surrounding VP.

[Iconeum]

Typical Andres. No action behind his words.

WHY DID WE NOT JUST KILL THIS SCUM ON ANY OF THE PREVIOUS DAYYYSSSSS

[Iconeum]

so you think aldus is the other town NPOM?

Not exactly sure. Aldus or icon.

omg

nice

yeah i can see ur doubting a town between aldus or me

that's why you are engaging with me like you are -> again completely ignoring me

gtfo

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Alduskkel

Hellbooks is a Mason, and VPB/DkKoba contains at most 1 Scum. That leaves 2 Scum from my POV between Ico/Aldus/NPOM. If everyone’s assessment of Ico is wrong, we lose anyway. If you still include Ico in the group as a possibility, then your choice is at worst a 50/50 anyway, since Hellbooks is Confirmed. This is always correct from my POV. It’s a 66.7% chance of hitting if I vote randomly amongst the group, versus a straight 50/50 between DkKoba/VPB, and I’m obviously not voting randomly since I have a high degree of certainty that Ico is Town.

this is only a good play if we are in a world where we are doubting VP

which is a world we lose in anyhow

so i'm actually fine playing follow the cop today and sucking up the loss if that happens

[Andresvmb]

Don’t we have to as some point? If VPB is Town, does anyone really think the Scum are stupid enough to let him keep on going to clear more players in future days? C’mon now

Actually, ur wrong.

In the case of scum!VP, he won't die.
In the case of town!VP, he won't die. In this scenario, scum are committed to the frame. If we flip for example aldus today and he is scum, and scum then kill VP, we *KNOW* koba is scum. OTOH, if scum kill Hellbooks, who is actually conftown, scum can continue sowing distrust and WIFOM surrounding VP.

Giving VPB the chance to use his ability again, and either clear a player or identify another Scum. Why is it so hard for all of you to see the obvious strategic benefit? I really don’t get it. So you think the Scum theoretically takes the chance that VPB has a hard solve?

[Iconeum]

datisi didnt flip mason

my dude

are you gonna try and shade a confirmed and FLIPPED town mason?

[Alduskkel]

aldu can u explain your thought process throughout this game to me. i have u marked as prob scum but i have not actually engaged u as much as i should have(merely reading u based on what ive witnessed)

I don't know how detailed you want this but basically:
Started Day 1 trying to feel things out with questions, pretty normal stuff for me. I had some suspicions of Andres and NPOM even early on but not super strong stuff.
I got a good feel for Icon's posting and got a solid townread there that has stayed solid throughout this game. I also felt SB's play resembled what I do as town, so I didn't like that wagon. I felt the game needed a bit of shaking up, and I agreed with what you said about Testa's posting being hedgey/IIOA was true, so I hopped on that wagon.
Fast forward a bit, the wagons are janko vs Bob, and I townread Bob, so I hammered janko. I admit I was powertripping a bit by stealing the hammer from you.

Day 2 was when things got messy with all the claims and stuff. I also didn't understand why you flipped your read on Testa, since her posting hadn't changed imo.
I went into more depth on my Icon townread (since dats asked) and pushed NPOM a bit. However, I was pretty busy IRL during this phase and Bob got eliminated before I got to say much.

Day 3 starts, blah blah claims and stuff, and then Andres and I have an argument starting around page 103 or 104 that I thought would have been more talked about in this game. I'm tempted to quote all of it, but I won't for the sake of brevity. But basically Andres made a terrible push on me that really made me start realizing he was scum. The broad opinion of the town kind of started to shift against me though, for reasons I don't 100% understand. I couldn't get any support for Andres/NPOM wagons, which in retrospect seems like it's because they're scum. But at the time I was just like "ugh, if I'm eliminated I know it's going to hit town, and I still scumread Testa somewhat, so better her than me I guess." And then Testa got eliminated and flipped town and I was like "fuck."

And now we're here.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: NPOM

Sure. Same odds.

huh

ok i can see town!andres' point trying to make here

[DkKoba]

Don’t we have to as some point? If VPB is Town, does anyone really think the Scum are stupid enough to let him keep on going to clear more players in future days? C’mon now

Actually, ur wrong.

In the case of scum!VP, he won't die.
In the case of town!VP, he won't die. In this scenario, scum are committed to the frame. If we flip for example aldus today and he is scum, and scum then kill VP, we *KNOW* koba is scum. OTOH, if scum kill Hellbooks, who is actually conftown, scum can continue sowing distrust and WIFOM surrounding VP.

Are u serious